This isn't exactly what I meant, I made quite a few points in that last post that you just completely bypassed.
it's not that i bypassed them, you just don't want to admit to the answers given. i'll go through them point by point if you'd like, but it's not going to change things one bit.
-You didn't understand the price atheists pay to live in a society filled with believers. Do you understand it a little better now, after I outlined it?
i understood you perfectly well, it's just that religion is no different from any other set of values. you whine about the archaic traditions that you are
forced to live under and i just call "bullshit". the present is always shaped by the traditions of the past and they slowly morph into traditions that will some day be an important part of the future. just because you don't happen to agree with those traditions does not make them worthless.
-Do you believe it's a selfish act to be religious? By shifting the burden of existence off themselves and acquiring a new, wouldn't you know it - unprovable faith based belief system, then making everyone else, even those who don't believe in it, follow the rules of that system accordingly.
you keep going on about how these horrible religious people are forcing you to follow their rules. what the hell are these rules you find so onerous. thou shalt not kill? be kind to your neighbor? perhaps you don't like the idea that most people in this country consider sunday to be a designated day of rest. you say you don't really mind a few words on a bill or a couple of archaic and unenforceable laws, but they obviously bother you quite a bit.
what seems to bother you most is that these people believe that they have a glimpse of
THE TRUTH and you are just bound and determined to prove them wrong. you manage to consider it selfish that they believe in a guiding force, but the selfishness i see is your determination to ruin that sweet little lie. some of the most selfless people i have ever met have had a deep seated and nearly unshakable faith. their one one fault, at least in my eyes, was this strange belief in a man in the sky, but it certainly didn't do me or anyone else any harm. even their most insistent prodding to steer me onto their path was done with a bit of love and was nothing more than a slight nuisance.
-Do you understand how by believing in fairy tales, believers in this country do in fact infringe on my rights as an American citizen?
once again i have to call "bullshit". the rights you have as an american citizen were built on a morality espoused and forwarded by the very religious folks you so despise. there is no law that states that like minded people shouldn't give preferential treatment to each other. if the majority of americans would rather see a christian leading them then that is their right and it is you who would infringe on their liberties.
-What do you believe is the root cause of peoples differences?
there are a number of causes for the various schisms in society. fear of the unfamiliar and envy come immediately to mind. one of the basest and most ludicrous causes is pride. we all have a deep seated desire to be special, to belong to the best groups and attain the best achievements. just look to your own arrogant denial that any good may come of religion, it reeks of overweening pride in your own logic and personal morality. you know you can never prove these people to be wrong, but still you insist that the damage they do outstrips even the most heinous secular crimes.
-What about human nature? Why do you believe we are constricted to it?
that's sort of like asking why a bee is a bee or an owl an owl. we may slowly change our nature, but it is an arduous process and certainly doesn't come about by leaps and bounds. though we may attempt to build on our most positive aspects and to negate our baser instincts, we often err in deciding what is best and our worst is always lying in wait. we may struggle to become more than we are and we may even attain some elevated status, but we will never completely escape the rude beasts we once were.
Religion is more than just a tool.....
The intent, from the very foundation of organized religion itself, is malicious. It is to control peoples minds.
as is quite often the case, you mistake the use a tool is put to with the tool itself. is the idea of government evil? governments have been responsible for more death and suffering than torquemada himself could have ever dreamed of, but their intent is merely to guide society's path and protect the citizenry. the tool of government has been used to subjugate neighboring lands and to decimate entire peoples, but we still recognize its necessity and endure its follies. it is the same with religion, arguably a primitive form of governance. just as government seeks to lead its followers on a given path, such is also the role of the tool of religion. you call this mind control because you so vehemently disagree, but it is merely leadership through a predetermined code of behavior.
there is so much more to religion than the control of the masses and an escape from the grim specter of an approaching end. it is the tool that has been used for century upon century to instill a code of ethics in an often primitive people. that the tool should be damned for its misuse by the unscrupulous is as nonsensical as blaming the gun in the hand of a murderer.
this has gone on way too long and has managed to completely waste my buzz. though i find it rather humorous that an atheist should be sitting here defending the role of religion in mankind's history, i'm also quite aware that this is a lost cause. your bigotry just gives you too much satisfaction for you to ever give it up.
i would reply to your rude little irish buddy, but i'm suddenly in no mood to toy with children like that. maybe i'll waste that sort of time tomorrow. 
