What's the solution for Afghanistan

medicineman

medicineman

New Member
My contention is we need to get the fuck out, now! what say you all?
“What happens on the ground is for every one of those impacts you get five or ten times as many recruits for the Taliban as you've eliminated. The people that we’re trying to convince to become adherents to our cause have become rigidly hostile to our cause in part because of bombing and in part because of other killing of civilians from ground forces. We’re dealing with a society that’s based on honor... They have to resist being invaded, occupied, bombed and killed. It’s a matter of honor, and they’re willing to die in unbelievable numbers to do that.”
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2009/01/is_a_military_strategy_the_bes.html
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
No opinions here???? I thought this was a political forum, where we discuss politics. There must be some warmongers that will argue (Discuss) with me. I say, get the heck out, now.
 
homerdog

homerdog

Well-Known Member
Make legit markets for the MJ/hashish and poppy trade and suck away the money stream from the taliban and other indigenous fighting groups. Take away their (average citizen) source of income and of course they will want to kill you, it is how they have feed their families for thousands of years, who the fuck are we to say other wise, I'd kill you too if you were taking away my ability to feed and clothe my family.
 
shnkrmn

shnkrmn

Well-Known Member
Okay, med. I'll bite.

We can't leave Afghanistan. There are bad people who need a place to work against us and that cannot be allowed. Somalia is in the same class.

The people of Afghanistan are never going to become adherents to our cause, and while we may make some efforts that way as a matter of form, we don't believe it either. The government of Afghanistan consists of a very thin segment of Afghan society; they neither represent the ethnic makeup of the country nor do they share common goals with the people, but they will work with us to impose control on the region. And we need that because . . . .

If we leave Afghanistan, it will be used (even more than it is now) as a base for the toppling of Pakistan (and the acquisition of their nukes). Would you rather we fight in Afghanistan or Pakistan? RPG's and AK-47s or one of the largest military forces in Asia with heavy artillery, and nukes? And how about India? Do you care if the rest of the world takes on a lovely glow?

And do you want Afghanistan sitting on the world's largest crop of opium and turning it into money, men and materiel to destroy you and yours? Because they want to, whether we bombed their villages or not.

Your turn.
 
Kant

Kant

Well-Known Member
shnkrmn said:
Okay, med. I'll bite.

We can't leave Afghanistan. There are bad people who need a place to work against us and that cannot be allowed. Somalia is in the same class.

The people of Afghanistan are never going to become adherents to our cause, and while we may make some efforts that way as a matter of form, we don't believe it either. The government of Afghanistan consists of a very thin segment of Afghan society; they neither represent the ethnic makeup of the country nor do they share common goals with the people, but they will work with us to impose control on the region. And we need that because . . . .

If we leave Afghanistan, it will be used (even more than it is now) as a base for the toppling of Pakistan (and the acquisition of their nukes). Would you rather we fight in Afghanistan or Pakistan? RPG's and AK-47s or one of the largest military forces in Asia with heavy artillery, and nukes? And how about India? Do you care if the rest of the world takes on a lovely glow?

And do you want Afghanistan sitting on the world's largest crop of opium and turning it into money, men and materiel to destroy you and yours? Because they want to, whether we bombed their villages or not.

Your turn.
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Here is where I disagree. If Pakistan fell, the army would either take over or dissolve. I doubt that afganistan would be able to assert any control. That having been said, yes there is a huge concern as to what happens to the nukes. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if we had a team in place to retrieve those nukes, the moment that the pakistan gov't falls.

This is one of the very few situations that i'm glad we have troops around the world.

Also in the event that pakistan did fall, I highly doubt that india would just stand by. I'm sure we would see some action by them.
 
GrowRebel

GrowRebel

Well-Known Member
I'm with you med ... we need to leave ... we went over there because of 911 and we ... most of us ... know it was an inside job ... I think the elite want to keep the drugs flowing for their projects ... one thing is for sure ...we are not there to help ... :neutral:
 
Kant

Kant

Well-Known Member
I think at this point I agree. We may have had a chance when we first went in but that has long since been squandered. Now there's really nothing more we can do, except waste money, lives and piss off more people there.
 
shnkrmn

shnkrmn

Well-Known Member
I did not say Afghanistan would take over Pakistan, but that non-governmental forces inside Afghanistan would topple Pakistan.

Great we have a nuke-retrieval team. I feel better. And no, India wouldn't just stand by. So you think world war is good?

9/11 was only an inside job inside your head. Get some medication.
 
Kant

Kant

Well-Known Member
shnkrmn said:
I did not say Afghanistan would take over Pakistan, but that non-governmental forces inside Afghanistan would topple Pakistan.

Great we have a nuke-retrieval team. I feel better. And no, India wouldn't just stand by. So you think world war is good?

9/11 was only an inside job inside your head. Get some medication.
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absolutely not but I don't see how keeping troops there is going to solve/prevent that situation. I mean if anything, we're driving more people to the taliban's side.
 
NewGrowth

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
My contention is we need to get the fuck out, now! what say you all?
“What happens on the ground is for every one of those impacts you get five or ten times as many recruits for the Taliban as you've eliminated. The people that we’re trying to convince to become adherents to our cause have become rigidly hostile to our cause in part because of bombing and in part because of other killing of civilians from ground forces. We’re dealing with a society that’s based on honor... They have to resist being invaded, occupied, bombed and killed. It’s a matter of honor, and they’re willing to die in unbelievable numbers to do that.”
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2009/01/is_a_military_strategy_the_bes.html
Click to expand...
What is our cause? Imperialism? Maybe a McDonalds in Kabul?
 
NewGrowth

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
Kant said:
al qaeda, whatever.
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Al Qaeda :lol:

The Taliban was the oppressive Theocratic Afgani government. It was supported by the US throughout the cold war to drive out the soviets. Throughout the 90's they commited horrendous human rights attrocities that went ignored by the US. US oil interests were based on building a pipeline through Afganistan. The hope was that the Taliban would stabilize the region enough to do so.

Al Qaeda is not really an organization its a name given by the CIA. There are numerous muslim "terrorist" networks and most of them have different goals. The bottom line is these people believe they are defending their "Holy Land" from infidel invaders. Most of the extremism stems from a lack of education and people living in "failed states". Pakistan is now one of the largest failed states.

The goal should be to offer these people education and technology to improve their lives. We continue to force our influence in these countries due to greedy oil interests. If instead of stealing these people's natural resources and spending money on weapons we gave some of the money back to build infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads) things would be a lot different.
 
GrowRebel

GrowRebel

Well-Known Member
shnkrmn said:
9/11 was only an inside job inside your head. Get some medication.
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911 not being an inside job is only inside your head ... it is you that need the medication if you think skycrapers design to withstand fire and plane crashes can come down demo style in 15 sec ... try and find some help ... kiss-ass
 
NewGrowth

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
Spitzered said:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-01-29-Kabul_N.htm
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This is sad propaganda, you have to read more about the History of the Taliban and Afganistan to really understand the region. The Taliban no longer exists as a governing body in Afganistan. The US is fighting jihadist's coming across the boarder from Pakistan.

Warlords control different regions of Afganistan but the country is rugged making guerilla combat easy. Can't drive tanks in the mountains . . .

Its really spin to claim the Taliban is "on the rise" any time after the US invasion. Maybe muslim extremists crossing the Pakistan border is on the rise but that does not make them Taliban:roll:
 
Kant

Kant

Well-Known Member
NewGrowth said:
Al Qaeda :lol:

The Taliban was the oppressive Theocratic Afgani government. It was supported by the US throughout the cold war to drive out the soviets. Throughout the 90's they commited horrendous human rights attrocities that went ignored by the US. US oil interests were based on building a pipeline through Afganistan. The hope was that the Taliban would stabilize the region enough to do so.

Al Qaeda is not really an organization its a name given by the CIA. There are numerous muslim "terrorist" networks and most of them have different goals. The bottom line is these people believe they are defending their "Holy Land" from infidel invaders. Most of the extremism stems from a lack of education and people living in "failed states". Pakistan is now one of the largest failed states.

The goal should be to offer these people education and technology to improve their lives. We continue to force our influence in these countries due to greedy oil interests. If instead of stealing these people's natural resources and spending money on weapons we gave some of the money back to build infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads) things would be a lot different.
Click to expand...

While I agree in principle, the problem is we (nobody) can for people to do something that their culture is not ready to accept, be it technology, education or gov't.
 
NewGrowth

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
Kant said:
While I agree in principle, the problem is we (nobody) can for people to do something that their culture is not ready to accept, be it technology, education or gov't.
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Before the Taliban Afganistan had Universities and offered education to women. These people may be Muslim but they don't exist in a vacuum.:peace:

Education should be primary, the US can't just abandon a country that it decimated once again. An even more extreme governing power with even more Anti-American sentiment would quickly fill the void and further destabilize Pakistan and the surrounding region. We don't need a Nuclear war . . .

The problem is the fact that US oil interests and international banking institutions rob these people of their wealth and offer nothing in return. Make oil companies pay dividends to the locals, build schools, ect. Make international bankers forgive all debts. Doing these two things would drastically improve US relations with the Muslim world.

End US imperialism under the guise of "Globilization"
 
NewGrowth

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
tipsgnob said:
we don't need men on the ground to rid afghanistan of it's drugs... ever hear of agent orange?
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Agent Orange killed thousands of people, carpet bombing already poor farmers with poison and robbing them of their only source of income is a pretty shitty solution.
 
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