What's Wrong With Science?

Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Science doesn't seem to get a bad rap until it directly disagrees with someones beliefs. Creationists, for example, love to use science when it seems to confirm their claims, but the second it conflicts then it's dismissed in favor of god's mystery.

Pop culture loves to portrait the scientists as a naive narrow minded nerd who dismisses the possibilities of supernatural ideas. How many times was Scully left looking like an idiot trying to explain UFO sightings as odd electrical storms? When Hollywood needs to explain why a little girl can set things on fire with her mind, they say something like "science doesn't have all the answers". That's just fine for story telling, but many people adopt this attitude to justify their paranormal beliefs.

Science is accused of being closed minded. What I found personally is that people call you close minded when they are unable to get you to yield to their bad logic. Many people have an attitude such as "logic and reason are okay but I trust what I feel and that's what I believe". Religious people call that faith; giving oneself permission to be ignorant or persist in delusion. Many people have no conflict compromising reason to believe just about any subject, not just spiritual. When you are unwilling to compromise, they label you closed minded.

Science is a systematic way of carefully and thoroughly observing nature while using consistent logic to evaluate the results.

Which part of that is undesirable? Is it being thorough, using careful observation, being systematic, or using consistent logic?
 
tip top toker

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
And ideas are bulletproof, but bulletproof items tend to be bheavy so don't get all carried away and have too many ideas now :D
 
Balzac89

Balzac89

Undercover Mod
The way I look at it is if someone can show me why my idea is wrong with solid evidence I can change my mind. It has happened many times, but just having sheer faith in anything is illogical.
 
tip top toker

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
Balzac89 said:
The way I look at it is if someone can show me why my idea is wrong with solid evidence I can change my mind. It has happened many times, but just having sheer faith in anything is illogical.
Click to expand...
That one deserves a like button. On the whole though, people only ever try and prove you wrong or why your idea is flawed, via use of their opinion, and not of fact. Kinda reminds me of the way the Royal british science academy was portrayed in Around the World in 80 days :lol:
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Balzac89 said:
The way I look at it is if someone can show me why my idea is wrong with solid evidence I can change my mind. It has happened many times, but just having sheer faith in anything is illogical.
Click to expand...
This is the stance that any good skeptic or scientist adopts. You must follow the evidence even when it leads you to conflict your own views, indeed that is when it is most exciting.

Did you guys know that Astrology is science? Well, it is if you live in India according to the high court.

Prof Brain Cox recently got into hot water when he made the statement "astrology is a load of rubbish" on the BBC. The AA responded with:

"The Association will be requesting that the BBC make a public apology and a statement that they do not support the personal views of Professor Brian Cox or Dara O'Briains on the subject of astrology. We also request that the BBC will commit to making a fair and balanced representation of astrology when aired in the future."

We are at a point where science is considered to be just another opinion. Science evaluates all claims in the same way, yet when it looks at the claim of astrology and decides it's without merit, suddenly science is not being fair and balanced.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Science is merely a methodology for gaining knowledge. There is one thing that separates science from every other method of learning about the natural world -- It works, bitches!!

[video=youtube;xEWVt6xyjLU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEWVt6xyjLU[/video]

[video=youtube;NX7x0ygnmsQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX7x0ygnmsQ[/video]
 
Kartel Kriminal

Kartel Kriminal

Active Member
The thing thats wrong with science is that theres nothing spirtitual about it at all. The scientific explanation of things doesn't comfort me. I don't belong to a religion but I have an ideology about how I choose to live my life. I believe in Jah, the ten commandments, karma, omens and reincarnation.

I believe that Jah created the earth and its elements. All matter, life and energy derived from Jah in the form of evolution. Jah is my god and I believe he is my creator. I also believe my creator was black because I was created in his image. The original people of earth lived close to the equator therefore they were colored people.

The list of ten commandments is an honorable code to live by in my opinion. The commandments are fundamental by laws which are both universally and morally acceptable.

I believe good Karma is our true savior. Karma is the only thing that should matter about whether or not we have a pleasurable or dispicable after life. Through good deeds, acts of kindness, and fairness you should feel content about yourself at all times. Through maliciousness, wrong doing, and selfishness you should feel an inner emptiness or paranoia about yourself. (atleast I would)

Omens are signs by way of nature. To be a truly enlightened person you must be in tune with nature and its omens. These are not at all superstitious beliefs. Abiding by omens is more like being aware of yourself and your current situation, so that you may read between the lines of life.

I don't believe in a heaven or hell. I believe every life form is destined to be reborn as another life form after death. Reincarnation is all a man like myself can hope for. I'd rather be reborn as a maggot or cockroach before I'm to be damned to hell for eternity for "sinning". Which is only natural for humans to do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sso
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Kartel Kriminal said:
The thing thats wrong with science is that theres nothing spirtitual about it at all. The scientific explanation of things doesn't comfort me. I don't belong to a religion but I have an ideology about how I choose to live my life. I believe in Jah, the ten commandments, karma, omens and reincarnation.
Click to expand...
How do you decide what you believe and what you don't? What rules do you apply to determine if something is probably factual or not? Why do you believe in these things without any evidence? The thing about science is that it is a tool to determine the truth about the nature of things in our universe. There is nothing spiritual about it because there is no evidence of this thing you call spirituality.
I believe that Jah created the earth and its elements. All matter, life and energy derived from Jah in the form of evolution. Jah is my god and I believe he is my creator. I also believe my creator was black because I was created in his image. The original people of earth lived close to the equator therefore they were colored people.
Click to expand...
So you believe this being that is not human but is a spiritual creature that created the entire universe is black? Yes, the original humans on this planet were indeed black but the original plants were green. Why isn't your Jah green?
The list of ten commandments is an honorable code to live by in my opinion. The commandments are fundamental by laws which are both universally and morally acceptable.
Click to expand...
You mean like threats against worshiping another god or the making idols? That's moral? Is the observation of the sabbath universal? Are we supposed to honor parents that abuse or treat their children cruelly? How many of the ten are actually laws in secular nations like the US? Three?
I believe good Karma is our true savior. Karma is the only thing that should matter about whether or not we have a pleasurable or dispicable after life. Through good deeds, acts of kindness, and fairness you should feel content about yourself at all times. Through maliciousness, wrong doing, and selfishness you should feel an inner emptiness or paranoia about yourself. (atleast I would)
Click to expand...
The thing that bothers me is that religion uses a carrot/stick mentality toward acting good. I personally think that we should act good and kind toward our fellow inhabitants of this planet because it is the right thing to do. That inner emptiness is called regret and shame. These are natural and would occur without karma or the threat of hellfire. Empathy is the reason we feel bad when we do bad things, not a god or karma.
Omens are signs by way of nature. To be a truly enlightened person you must be in tune with nature and its omens. These are not at all superstitious beliefs. Abiding by omens is more like being aware of yourself and your current situation, so that you may read between the lines of life.
Click to expand...
Being self-aware and picking up on subtle clues that our conscious mind might miss is not the same thing as what most would call an omen. However, in the sense you appear to be using it, you would be correct, not all omens are superstitious in nature but they are also not supernatural.
I don't believe in a heaven or hell. I believe every life form is destined to be reborn as another life form after death. Reincarnation is all a man like myself can hope for. I'd rather be reborn as a maggot or cockroach before I'm to be damned to hell for eternity for "sinning". Which is only natural for humans to do.
Click to expand...
Where's the evidence for reincarnation?
 
Kartel Kriminal

Kartel Kriminal

Active Member
How do you decide what you believe and what you don't? What rules do you apply to determine if something is probably factual or not? Why do you believe in these things without any evidence? The thing about science is that it is a tool to determine the truth about the nature of things in our universe. There is nothing spiritual about it because there is no evidence of this thing you call spirituality.
Click to expand...
I decide what I believe based on what I have witnessed and how I have been treated in life. Deterimining what is factual is subjective. Everyone has there own unique life experience. The positive and negative reoccuring factors in my life have driven me to believe somethings as facts that you would not. So with that being said evidence is also subjective. Hell, both the theory of gravity and relativity are subjective. Even though people accept these theories to be factual, they are not concrete facts of life.

So you believe this being that is not human but is a spiritual creature that created the entire universe is black? Yes, the original humans on this planet were indeed black but the original plants were green. Why isn't your Jah green?
You mean like threats against worshiping another god or the making idols? That's moral? Is the observation of the sabbath universal? Are we supposed to honor parents that abuse or treat their children cruelly? How many of the ten are actually laws in secular nations like the US? Three?
Click to expand...
Earth was once a garden of Jah's. It was him who decided when and what would be created on our planet. In the beginning there was no life because there was no light. When Jah decided to let there be light. That is when life came about through the process of evolution. Nothing would exist with out light, and this is why Jah also created the sun. To brighten earth and bring about life. To further explain why I believe I was created in his image will be a bit difficult. Humans are the only life form on earth that can grasp the concept of the existence of a higher power. It was inevitable upon our creation for us to wonder how we came to be here. The first religions ever were animism and climate worship. Live stock and climate were the main focus of our ancestors. From then on people began to worship the sun, the moon, the sky, the stars and even the ocean. Though it took a good while for humans to begin to think of themselves as more than hunter-gatherers. Only humans developed this world into what it is today. Just as Jah developed the world before all humans came to be. Jah is a devine human and original creator of earth so he deserves my worship.

The thing that bothers me is that religion uses a carrot/stick mentality toward acting good. I personally think that we should act good and kind toward our fellow inhabitants of this planet because it is the right thing to do. That inner emptiness is called regret and shame. These are natural and would occur without karma or the threat of hellfire. Empathy is the reason we feel bad when we do bad things, not a god or karma.
Click to expand...
I don't have a religion. Karma is what keeps me balanced. Everything should ALWAYS be equal. What goes around will always come back around and a eye shall always be given for another eye. Of course emotions play a role in life, but I've found out through Karma, that my emotional well being will be fine as long as my spirtualality is strong. Regret, shame, and empathy can all be avoided through good Karma.

Being self-aware and picking up on subtle clues that our conscious mind might miss is not the same thing as what most would call an omen. However, in the sense you appear to be using it, you would be correct, not all omens are superstitious in nature but they are also not supernatural.
Click to expand...
I will compromise with you by saying omens are what you make them out to be.


Where's the evidence for reincarnation?
Click to expand...
I HAVE NONE! Its either that or rot in the ground and never experience conscientousness again. I'm trying to be optimistic lol.
 
RawBudzski

RawBudzski

Well-Known Member
who are we to say what true logic or knowledge is. the root of all suffering is Knowledge, and the only way to overcome that is to gain more Knowledge... (ie for the moobs who cant understand..the fact your so smart to even know your sad over your girl dumping your pot head arse. and to overcome that is to what? gain more knowledge to learn that life goes on.) Belief and Faith has its place in humanity just as our seeking of knowledge, its what it is to be human. Since none of us know anything for sure, in a science book or not. Yes Ideas Can Change :) But so Can what we call the Facts.
Balzac89 said:
The way I look at it is if someone can show me why my idea is wrong with solid evidence I can change my mind. It has happened many times, but just having sheer faith in anything is illogical.
Click to expand...
 
RawBudzski

RawBudzski

Well-Known Member
Depends on where you stand on the issue, is how you will see it. Leaving earth for a second, Nothing we know to be TRUE or a FACT matters out here. ppl take their evolution/creation for granted however you look at it. funny how these Ideas can be Above our Head and Inside it at the same time.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Kartel Kriminal said:
I decide what I believe based on what I have witnessed and how I have been treated in life. Deterimining what is factual is subjective. Everyone has there own unique life experience. The positive and negative reoccuring factors in my life have driven me to believe somethings as facts that you would not. So with that being said evidence is also subjective. Hell, both the theory of gravity and relativity are subjective. Even though people accept these theories to be factual, they are not concrete facts of life.



Earth was once a garden of Jah's. It was him who decided when and what would be created on our planet. In the beginning there was no life because there was no light. When Jah decided to let there be light. That is when life came about through the process of evolution. Nothing would exist with out light, and this is why Jah also created the sun. To brighten earth and bring about life. To further explain why I believe I was created in his image will be a bit difficult. Humans are the only life form on earth that can grasp the concept of the existence of a higher power. It was inevitable upon our creation for us to wonder how we came to be here. The first religions ever were animism and climate worship. Live stock and climate were the main focus of our ancestors. From then on people began to worship the sun, the moon, the sky, the stars and even the ocean. Though it took a good while for humans to begin to think of themselves as more than hunter-gatherers. Only humans developed this world into what it is today. Just as Jah developed the world before all humans came to be. Jah is a devine human and original creator of earth so he deserves my worship.



I don't have a religion. Karma is what keeps me balanced. Everything should ALWAYS be equal. What goes around will always come back around and a eye shall always be given for another eye. Of course emotions play a role in life, but I've found out through Karma, that my emotional well being will be fine as long as my spirtualality is strong. Regret, shame, and empathy can all be avoided through good Karma.



I will compromise with you by saying omens are what you make them out to be.




I HAVE NONE! Its either that or rot in the ground and never experience conscientousness again. I'm trying to be optimistic lol.
Click to expand...
This is basically saying:

A systematic way of carefully and thoroughly observing nature with consistent logic does not comfort me, so I chose to believe what does. Logic and reason do not trump feeling and intuition, and this allows me to live a more comfortable life. Evidence is not as important to me as my bias learned from life's experiences.

Your last line sums it up nicely. If given the choice to believe in an afterlife or a definite end, you will choose afterlife based on the fact that it makes you feel better, and not consider actual evidence at all. This is what you call subjective.

This is all fine for your personal beliefs, but it doesn't really point out what's wrong with science. Your only point seems to be, science is too depressing while ignorance is more appealing.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
RawBudzski said:
who are we to say what true logic or knowledge is. the root of all suffering is Knowledge, and the only way to overcome that is to gain more Knowledge... (ie for the moobs who cant understand..the fact your so smart to even know your sad over your girl dumping your pot head arse. and to overcome that is to what? gain more knowledge to learn that life goes on.) Belief and Faith has its place in humanity just as our seeking of knowledge, its what it is to be human. Since none of us know anything for sure, in a science book or not. Yes Ideas Can Change :) But so Can what we call the Facts.
Click to expand...
RawBudzski said:
Depends on where you stand on the issue, is how you will see it. Leaving earth for a second, Nothing we know to be TRUE or a FACT matters out here. ppl take their evolution/creation for granted however you look at it. funny how these Ideas can be Above our Head and Inside it at the same time.
Click to expand...
Science does not take the position that it has "true" answers. It only attempts to judge our world in the most objective way possible while being extremely careful not to make mistakes. It avoids logic that leads to invalid conclusions hoping that the answer we arrive at is the most accurate. Science is the first to doubt itself, and that doubt is what drives knowledge.

If we leave earth we actually find that much of what science has taught us holds true. The laws of thermodynamics, for example, do not change simply because we are on another planet. Any life that exists elsewhere would face the same sorts of problems as us in the sense of environmental pressures selecting for the best adapted forms. I don't actually see how leaving the planet changes what science has taught us at all.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Kartel Kriminal said:
I HAVE NONE! Its either that or rot in the ground and never experience conscientousness again. I'm trying to be optimistic lol.
Click to expand...
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
~Carl Sagan
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
This is basically saying:

A systematic way of carefully and thoroughly observing nature with consistent logic does not comfort me, so I chose to believe what does. Logic and reason do not trump feeling and intuition, and this allows me to live a more comfortable life. Evidence is not as important to me as my bias learned from life's experiences.

Your last line sums it up nicely. If given the choice to believe in an afterlife or a definite end, you will choose afterlife based on the fact that it makes you feel better, and not consider actual evidence at all. This is what you call subjective.

This is all fine for your personal beliefs, but it doesn't really point out what's wrong with science. Your only point seems to be, science is too depressing while ignorance is more appealing.
Click to expand...
I'd rep the shit out of this post if I could! Bravo.

mindphuk said:
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
~Carl Sagan
Click to expand...
I feel exactly the same way, but I think for most of the world it still isn't. How the FUCK do we change that?

I've been starting to think that since it's easier to be stupid, not just easier, but celebrated in our society, and our technology today allows those that are stupid to pass on their genes much easier and at a faster rate than ever before, the trend won't stop unless something drastic happens.

Idocracy here we fuckin' come...


What is this drastic thing that needs to happen... some ignorance holocaust..

Look at the examples in this thread alone about the misconceptions of science, it's applications, it's uses, and what it has to offer...

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top