What's wrong with socialism?

iivan740

Well-Known Member
I realize that my view on health care will not have many supporters. It's just how I see it. Health care is costly for many reasons, like insurance companies mandating PT care and operating costs and people using the ER like a family doctors office.
Bottom line is that I do not want to pay taxes into a system and see someone else using my money to procure unneeded medical procedures. And yes I realize that medicare and medicade already do just that.
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Precisely.

To sunshine: I am proud of myself, but not proud of my country and what it's become. As a collective, America feeds itself on pride. We have an inflated sense of self-worth, and look down our noses at anyone who doesn't agree with our self-important view of ourselves. We like to contend that America is great because we are free, well, freedom is a loose term and there are many nations who enjoy freedoms that we, in America, do not.

Remember that it wasn't so long ago that Americans advocated slavery, which is the exact opposite of freedom. Now we advocate slavery in a different form - voluntary servitude to the corporations that are, in essence, dictatorial microcosms in which freedom is rationed and workers are exploited for the monetary gain of the men in the corner offices.
Who the hell is forcing you to stay here? Unlike many Countries the USA gives you the freedom to leave. Sounds like you are just biter because you can't make it here. Don't let the screen door hit you in the ass.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Did you choose your career based solely on how it pays? Or did you study something that interests you?

Doob? why are you going to College? To get a better job right? What is a better job? one that is more interesting? or one that pays more, has better benefits, perks, insurance, hot ass secretary etc etc etc?

Just the fact that your going to college to get a degree says right there that you are also on the lookout for a better paying job so that you can provide your family with a better living, right?

Your as capitalistic as you are socialist, in fact I would take a guess to say that your really not much different from the very same people you are arguing with.
 

DubsFan

Well-Known Member
I realize that my view on health care will not have many supporters. It's just how I see it. Health care is costly for many reasons, like insurance companies mandating PT care and operating costs and people using the ER like a family doctors office.
Bottom line is that I do not want to pay taxes into a system and see someone else using my money to procure unneeded medical procedures. And yes I realize that medicare and medicade already do just that.
I'm with you there. I don't have much of an issue with Medicade and Medicare as it services seniors and kids. I'm cool with that.
 

DubsFan

Well-Known Member
Doob? why are you going to College? To get a better job right? What is a better job? one that is more interesting? or one that pays more, has better benefits, perks, insurance, hot ass secretary etc etc etc?

Just the fact that your going to college to get a degree says right there that you are also on the lookout for a better paying job so that you can provide your family with a better living, right?

Your as capitalistic as you are socialist, in fact I would take a guess to say that your really not much different from the very same people you are arguing with.
The kids that are socialist and in college wouldn't give up a B to help bring a D student up to C. Right?

I don't see any liberal college students creating and equal grade program. Wait, let me guess, you've worked really hard for those A's and B's. I've worked really hard for my G's. :mrgreen::blsmoke:
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
The problem with socalism isn't the perceived good it alleges to bring. The problem is no person or group of persons has a right to make anyone that harms nobody partcipate or fund their "good idea". Socialism relies on force, that is wrong to do. It's that simple.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
Doob? why are you going to College? To get a better job right? What is a better job? one that is more interesting? or one that pays more, has better benefits, perks, insurance, hot ass secretary etc etc etc?

Just the fact that your going to college to get a degree says right there that you are also on the lookout for a better paying job so that you can provide your family with a better living, right?

Your as capitalistic as you are socialist, in fact I would take a guess to say that your really not much different from the very same people you are arguing with.
I've worked in the restaurant industry most of my life. It's not horrible money (working full time at the right place I can pull in $30k a year), but it's very unsatisfying work, and a bit degrading too. Not to mention there is no job security (4 out of 5 establishments I've worked at in my lifetime went out of business), no benefits, no time off if my kids are sick and have to stay home from school, etc. I am also self-employed as a PC repair tech, so again, no benefits there although I can choose my own hours which is pretty cool.

There are several reasons I decided to go to college. One being that I'd always planned to go, but life got in the way for bit. Another reason is the lack of benefits afforded to me in my current positions. There are very few food service employers who offer benefits for their workers, and yes, I'd like a retirement plan and health insurance. A bigger paycheck isn't really necessary. In fact, at this point it would actually be detrimental due to the fact that I'd lose my eligibility for the grants that are paying my tuition. Another reason is that I want to set an example for my kids and instill in them a desire to learn and pursue a higher education.

I have no desire to sling entrees for the rest of my life. It may be a fine profession for someone with less academic prowess - but I'd like something a bit more challenging and more rewarding than serving appetizers and happy hour drinks to a bunch of government workers and off-duty marines.

I don't measure my success/failure in terms of how much money I make. I'm quite accustomed to living a simple life, and I don't particularly care for material things (I can fit all my worldly possessions in the hatch of a Ford Aspire). If I'm doing work that I can be proud of and doesn't make me want to go to sleep and never wake up, I'd consider that a huge success. Likewise, if I'm setting a good example for my kids and raising them to be productive and intelligent people, then I'm successful.

Making enough money to put a flat screen 40" television in every room of my house isn't success, it's EXcess. It also does not raise my quality of life one iota. I have a car that I can afford, my mortgage is lower than most people's rent, and I don't have any credit card debt (I don't have credit cards at all, actually). I consider all those things "success", also.

If it's capitalistic to want affordable health care for my family, then sure, I guess I am. I don't want to make money, I want to make a comfortable life where I don't have to worry that a broken arm will result in having to file bankruptcy - and I don't have to worry about what's going to happen when I'm too old to work. I'm not at all interested in "keeping up with the Joneses". The Joneses probably live in a house they can't afford, drive cars they can't afford, and have credit card debt up to their eyeballs.
 

iivan740

Well-Known Member
The kids that are socialist and in college wouldn't give up a B to help bring a D student up to C. Right?

I don't see any liberal college students creating and equal grade program. Wait, let me guess, you've worked really hard for those A's and B's. I've worked really hard for my G's. :mrgreen::blsmoke:
Right on dubsfanbongsmilie
I know students that expect a curve to be put into the grade because they didn't do well, and they get mad when others screw with their curve by doing well.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Right on dubsfanbongsmilie
I know students that expect a curve to be put into the grade because they didn't do well, and they get mad when others screw with their curve by doing well.

People used to get pissed off at me in Some of the College courses where they graded on the bell curve. I would get a high score on a test or something and of course the instructors like to single out the top scorer and let everyone know about how well he did. Yeah that shit pisses me off because people actually expect you to not do so well so you can be "Like" them. I told them they could kiss my ass, if they didn't understand the material maybe they shouldn't take the class.
 

iivan740

Well-Known Member
I don't measure my success/failure in terms of how much money I make. I'm quite accustomed to living a simple life, and I don't particularly care for material things (I can fit all my worldly possessions in the hatch of a Ford Aspire). If I'm doing work that I can be proud of and doesn't make me want to go to sleep and never wake up, I'd consider that a huge success. Likewise, if I'm setting a good example for my kids and raising them to be productive and intelligent people, then I'm successful.
I applaud you, too many people think that in order to be successful they must make lots of money. I believe you are right when you say that success is measured in many ways.
Making enough money to put a flat screen 40" television in every room of my house isn't success, it's EXcess. It also does not raise my quality of life one iota. I have a car that I can afford, my mortgage is lower than most people's rent, and I don't have any credit card debt (I don't have credit cards at all, actually). I consider all those things "success", also.

If it's capitalistic to want affordable health care for my family, then sure, I guess I am. I don't want to make money, I want to make a comfortable life where I don't have to worry that a broken arm will result in having to file bankruptcy - and I don't have to worry about what's going to happen when I'm too old to work. I'm not at all interested in "keeping up with the Joneses". The Joneses probably live in a house they can't afford, drive cars they can't afford, and have credit card debt up to their eyeballs.
I think that healthcare would be cheaper if the health industry were to implement a capitalist plan. The health industry as it stands isn't about providing services at a reasonable price. There is a lot of bureaucracy in our healthcare system that allows for inflated prices for care.

Heres an example:
Walgreen sells 4x4 FSA approved gauzes for $6.79 per 10 pack (sterile packaging and same brand as most hospitals). If you were to look on your hospital bill that same guaze will be somewhere around $15 for 1. It is hard for me to believe that walgreen is getting better pricing than the hospital.
 

DubsFan

Well-Known Member
People used to get pissed off at me in Some of the College courses where they graded on the bell curve. I would get a high score on a test or something and of course the instructors like to single out the top scorer and let everyone know about how well he did. Yeah that shit pisses me off because people actually expect you to not do so well so you can be "Like" them. I told them they could kiss my ass, if they didn't understand the material maybe they shouldn't take the class.
I've always felt that life's tasks are not graded on a curve. Your boss or your clients won't grade you based on a curve. So why do it in school. It makes goal setting based on a standard not used in the real world.

I'm waiting for the protests from D students "Equal Grades for Equal time." Of course all the liberal A and B students wouldn't stand for this. C'mon really, lets redistribute grades too. Fuck it.
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
I've always felt that life's tasks are not graded on a curve. Your boss or your clients won't grade you based on a curve. So why do it in school. It makes goal setting based on a standard not used in the real world.

I'm waiting for the protests from D students "Equal Grades for Equal time." Of course all the liberal A and B students wouldn't stand for this. C'mon really, lets redistribute grades too. Fuck it.
That's a great point but employers do quite typically grade on a curve. In fact just about everything in life is graded on a curve. Even money itself is based on how much you have in relation to others. If everyone makes over 50K a year your 70K wouldn't buy much - that's inflation.

Also, grading on a curve is a tool that ensures that the instructors exams are fair and an accurate representation of what to expect from the students. If everyone in the class gets a D there is clearly an issue with the exam.

But all this aside I like your analogy about grade redistribution.
 
History say socialism is a failure.

The US won the cold war remember?

Why don't you ask the millions of Russians who are still trying to come to the US, what's wrong with socialism.

Did they stop teaching history in the public school system? :wall:
And capitalism works?

America is the most unequal society on earth, how many millions are there in beverly hills yet at the same time homeless roam around there and the rest of los angeles. No one gives a fuck about them. Some parts of the USA resemble war torn cities in world war two.

Capitalism might be good for the minority who benifit but the workers are still trampled on and oppressed.

As for a socialist government looking to control peoples lives and interfere. Read the patriot act, jesus america is the most regulated society ive experienced, there are rules and laws for everything.
 
K

Keenly

Guest
And capitalism works?

America is the most unequal society on earth, how many millions are there in beverly hills yet at the same time homeless roam around there and the rest of los angeles. No one gives a fuck about them. Some parts of the USA resemble war torn cities in world war two.

Capitalism might be good for the minority who benifit but the workers are still trampled on and oppressed.




like that you say?
 
Socialism = mediocrity. The "socialist" programs in america show this.
America wouldnt know socialism if it kicked it
up its arse in all fairness.

I recall news where the american media were complaining about a redundancy package for GM workers. Baffling



What socialist programs are there?
 

DubsFan

Well-Known Member
That's a great point but employers do quite typically grade on a curve. In fact just about everything in life is graded on a curve. Even money itself is based on how much you have in relation to others. If everyone makes over 50K a year your 70K wouldn't buy much - that's inflation.

Also, grading on a curve is a tool that ensures that the instructors exams are fair and an accurate representation of what to expect from the students. If everyone in the class gets a D there is clearly an issue with the exam.

But all this aside I like your analogy about grade redistribution.
I'm not a fan of analogies (gys?) so you can smack me know. I gave you the cliffnotes version of an email that is a few years old.

But it works pretty well here.

I don't know what it's like to go to college except that I live in a huge college town (San Diego) and I'm taking a guitar theory class. I've never completed a college course.

But I've found that people do hold their test scores and grades very closely, much like money. They've worked very hard for it and the reward depends on who's grading you (like a boss).

The professor could be crazy but in life you run into crazy people with unreal expectations. I'm 32 and blessed to have been in my career since 18. I have my own business now and have for some time. Times are lean but I've had massive successes and don't doubt my future.

My key point is a very simple principle I learned when taking my brokers exam 8 years ago "The best way to creat a value for something is to determine what someone will pay for it." Money can be a grade. Grades can be money. If your professor isn't buying your shit you deserve what he is willing to offer.

That is the real world.

A crazy professor is a crazy boss. If you let one person ruin your life, wallet or grades, you must examine your life and make the necessary decisions.

I don't live in the worlds box. I've been self employed since I was 19. I have not had a check every two weeks for 14 years. It's not easy but I get to call my own shots. I've almost lost everything twice but I'm still here.

Make money, donate to charity, take care of those you love...Give, ask, receive. That is my life.

I'm really fucking pissed I didn't start playing the guitar until 31 years old by the way.
 

Iron Lion Zion

Well-Known Member
History say socialism is a failure.
We are yet to see pure socialism, only communism.
The US won the cold war remember?
Although they called themselves socialists, they were not.
Why don't you ask the millions of Russians who are still trying to come to the US, what's wrong with socialism.
Again, communism not socialism.
Did they stop teaching history in the public school system? :wall:
I think you have read your history wrong
bongsmilie

As I am sure someone has already stated, socialism is not the same as communism. You cannot compare the two.
Also, socialism in some instances is not terrible. We have socialized systems in our own (USA) system as well - libraries, police departments, fire departments, postal service, blah blah.
Pure Socialism can work on paper, but never in a society for the very reason that most have stated - "I shouldn't make the same amount as someone with less education or who works less than me." We are human and not entirely altruistic, which is the basis for socialism working.
 
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