What's Wrong With These Leaves?

They're wrinkling & shriveling up like Grampa Simpson, only green. The curling leaf tips look weird too. Looked around for a while but haven't seen a pic or description that matches these well..

They look a bit more gnarly in person than the pics show.

This is only a geuss but i think its because the soil there prob not watered and its reflecting like crazy, ive seen that when people put alum to shield the roots (in rockwool) from the light but they forget Alum reflects unevenly and you get these what i call punches to the fan leaf. I suggest Water that box in circles what i mean is to a inner circle and the next feed water the outer after 2-4 times you create a nice soil top that dosnt reflect the heat as it absorbs it, thus better root growth too
Now if its HOT (85-99) that Inner circle gonna dry up quick so what i do is water in the morning a inner circle and during high noon the outer.
Same thing happens to my clones if I place them outdoor and dont water the ground first.

Looks like a form or mosaic virus or one of its relatives. Usually this is not toooo damaging to MJ plants although it does make them look gnarlly. The virus can be spread by insects, especially the chewing and sucking varieties, plant contact or spread by touching your infected leaves and then touching another leaf which has an injury or opening in the leaf you just touched.
This virus is very common in the typical garden and if you have other plants nearby you can allow this to get out of hand easily. So don't worry too much, just don't handle these leaves more than necessary and keep your insect numbers down.
Good Luck

TichySmokeSmoke said:

This is only a guess but i think its because the soil there prob not watered and its reflecting like crazy, ive seen that when people put alum to shield the roots (in rockwool) from the light but they forget Alum reflects unevenly and you get these what i call punches to the fan leaf. I suggest Water that box in circles what i mean is to a inner circle and the next feed water the outer after 2-4 times you create a nice soil top that dosnt reflect the heat as it absorbs it, thus better root growth too
Now if its HOT (85-99) that Inner circle gonna dry up quick so what i do is water in the morning a inner circle and during high noon the outer.
Same thing happens to my clones if I place them outdoor and dont water the ground first.

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I don't think it's heat reflection as I'm watering regularly, like every two or three days, and haven't had much warm, sunny weather. The soil stays a relatively dark to medium brown most of the time. Also, the plants are bushy enough that the soil under them is in shade most of the day. Looks like you're close by to me so my weather has been pretty much the same as yours lately except maybe a little cooler since I'm closer to the Golden Gate & get more fog than you do.

Have you got a pic of the whole plant?

With the curling and shit it looks like a touch to much N in my opinion. Not seen it on fan leaves before though.

Are you just giving water?

cannabutt said:

Have you got a pic of the whole plant?

With the curling and shit it looks like a touch to much N in my opinion. Not seen it on fan leaves before though.

Are you just giving water?

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Here are some more pics.

I've been using two tbsp of Buddha Grow per gallon of water every other watering. Usually I water every other day but I have done every three days a couple of times as the soil was still a bit damp. For the last month or so I've been alternating nutes & water. This is a recent evolution of my approach as I was using the Buddha Grow every watering for a while but noticed a burn on some of the lower leaves after each watering so I backed off a bit. A couple of times this month I added a tsp of blackstrap molasses to the nutes, although not this last time.

I've got three plants, one with no problems, one with a few minor leaf issues, and this one. Don't know the strains but they seem to each react a bit differently to what I do, which makes things more complicated for a beginner.

I know that I've got some spider mites, not too many but some, and white flies and some tiny little dark hard-shelled pests that clamp onto the leaf stems. Not sure exactly what they are but they crunch when I squish them. And one other critter that looks like tiny ladybugs, but brown with dark spots instead of being red with spots. I haven't killed any of them 'cause I'm not sure if they are friend or foe.

I have sprayed a few times with Azatrol and this seems to be keeping them down to a minimum. I also shake the plants many times per day to disrupt the little fuckers.

canefan said:

Looks like a form or mosaic virus or one of its relatives. Usually this is not toooo damaging to MJ plants although it does make them look gnarlly. The virus can be spread by insects, especially the chewing and sucking varieties, plant contact or spread by touching your infected leaves and then touching another leaf which has an injury or opening in the leaf you just touched.
This virus is very common in the typical garden and if you have other plants nearby you can allow this to get out of hand easily. So don't worry too much, just don't handle these leaves more than necessary and keep your insect numbers down.
Good Luck

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I've looked around other forums at pics of plants with mosaic virus issues and they don't look like what I've got on these leaves. The pics I've seen have brownish/yellow leaves where mine are a good, dark green but have a strange shriveling going on. Also, some of the leaf tips do this curling, spiral thing. They curl sideways in a little swirl.

MrGhettoGrower said:

What kind of dirt is that? It looks like retardation from possible pre-nutrientized dirt!

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This is the soil I stared with:

Local Hero Veggie Mix

A favorite amongst vegetable gardeners this well amended sandy loam is designed specifically for vegetables. Can either be used to fill raised planters or blended with existing soil. This product utilizes chicken manure, grape compost and cocoa bean hulls to provide a long lasting nutrient source.
Contains: Sandy Loam, WonderGrow Organic Compost, Rice Hulls, Chicken Manure, Grape Compost, Fir Bark, Cocoa Bean Hulls

i would feed nutes every ten days instead of every two days. it would probably clear right up

i have the exact same issue with one of my 2 plants, both have been treated the same way from day one, one is perfectly well, the other is just like the one we see here.

I have a similar problem with mine. I thought it was from treating them for spider mites with Azamax because it started right after I began using it.... maybe its not??

kdub86 said:

I have a similar problem with mine. I thought it was from treating them for spider mites with Azamax because it started right after I began using it.... maybe its not??

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I don't think it's the Azatrol. I've sprayed it about 5 or 6 times and haven't noticed any bad effects from it. Also, tons of other people use it all of the time and it has a pretty good rep for working well.

I think I have been over doing it on the nutrients and watering. I've switched from watering with nutes every other day to watering every 3rd or 4th day and adding nutes (Buddha Grow) every second watering. That seems to have cut way down on weird leaf issues, although I think I may also have some other nutrient deficiencies or pH issues. Just got a soil test kit that checks pH, N, P and K. Hopefully that'll help me get the girls dialed-in just in time for the flowering stage. I also have some home-made organic compost that is almost ready to use. I'm going to spread a little bit around the base of each plant at my next watering and see what happens. I've heard nothing but good stuff about amending with compost..

photonboy said:

they're wrinkling & shriveling up like grampa simpson, only green. The curling leaf tips look weird too. Looked around for a while but haven't seen a pic or description that matches these well..

They look a bit more gnarly in person than the pics show.

View attachment 1689552View attachment 1689554View attachment 1689556View attachment 1689557

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look up curly-top disease,my tomatoes have it.its a virus spread by leaf suckikg insects,leafhoppers mostly,all it takes is for them to feed on your plant after they,ve fed on an infected one.it has caused some huge losses in agriculture,beets were almost a total loss for farmers a yr or 2 ago.this only applies to outside grows were insects can travel to ur plants after being infected...molybendum deficency also causes weird looking leafs like that from pics i've seen...

If your leaves are twisted it could be over fert.

Legal Eagle said:

l\molybendum deficency also causes weird looking leafs like that from pics i've seen...

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I wonder if over doing it with the azatrol or azamax causes the plant to not up take molybdenum or something?

I'm really curious about this, some of my plants have those twisted leaves and some plants the leaves look a little wilted but its definitely not from over watering, then others are nice and perky and look great...

Well, I never have quite put my finger on what caused the weird ghoul-claw effect, or some of the other leaf discoloration & plant vigor issues, but I have just had an awesome breakthrough. I have been working an all organic compost bin in my yard for a couple of years and yesterday I sifted out some nice, black, fluffy compost and put around an inch or so around each of my plants then watered. This morning when I woke up and looked out the window all three plants had very clearly and dramatically perked up. I feel like I can almost see them vibrating with energy. I mean these girls look like they are trying to leap out of the dirt and fly! After tending these plants day in and day out for months now, adjusting watering schedules, adjusting nutrient levels, and generally showering them with love, this is the most positive change I have seen, and it happened overnight. I'm psyched..

Does anyone know the PH of azamax? I'm starting to think that azamax has either a higher or lower PH than what the leaves are use to, and it causes them to twist like that... Does that make sense?

kdub86 Nawww Ive use AzaMax, of course always using below the Recommended dose.
I had some twisting/clawing of the leafs this time around too, happened right after a heavier feeding.
Cut back the feeding a bit and there shouldnt be an issue with any of the newer growth, dont expect the stuff that got twisted to go back to "normal" though.


Just keep in mind that even if you are growing lots of the same strain, from seed, it is still from seed. there for you are getting different phenotypes, which I believe some can handle heavier feeding than others. Only way to truly test is with a controlled strain/pheno