When can I use microbes?

You do know more than me but the shame of it is we lost most of the people who could benefit from this when we started down the biology trail. Do you think most people here will give much thought to the last few post's.

nope spend a little on ferts, the crop well covers it in the end

so a handful of ewc and a 1/2 tbs molasses with a fishtank bubbler in the jug of water? you guys lost me on the fungi.

and if i have ewc in the soil will that make some bacteria? and should I add ewc to the soil for the final transplant or is that too much nitrogen for flower?

and do you think i should add my bottled crobes to the mix so they can all have sex with each other and stuff?

http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/FoxFarm-Soil-Schedule.pdf

Fox Farms feed schedule shows starting their product Microbe Brew on second week of Veg.

woodsmaneh! said:

You do know more than me but the shame of it is we lost most of the people who could benefit from this when we started down the biology trail. Do you think most people here will give much thought to the last few post's.

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Well, it comes down to biology..
You can get a basic AACT done without knowing anything but its harder to tailor an AACT recipe without knowladge in biology.

TheAngryLiberal said:

so a handful of ewc and a 1/2 tbs molasses with a fishtank bubbler in the jug of water? you guys lost me on the fungi.

and if i have ewc in the soil will that make some bacteria? and should I add ewc to the soil for the final transplant or is that too much nitrogen for flower?

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A cup of EWC, a tablespoon of malesses and a tablespoon of kelp into a gallon of water and bubble it with an aquarium air pump at full speed.

The idea behind AACT is to provide all the food and oxygen the aerobic (oxygen breathers) need to multiply. That way you get a whole lot of them and you can apply that to your grow.
EWC in the mix is less potent biological wise but serves for other purposes - it retains water well, helps aeating the soil, serves as a medium for the biology to grow on etc.
EWC contains around 2% nitrogen. Its more than fine for flowering plants - they need nitrogen too.

TheAngryLiberal said:

and do you think i should add my bottled crobes to the mix so they can all have sex with each other and stuff?

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Go ahead. If it doesn't harm the plants its OK.
It shouldn't have any significant soluble elements in it to burn a plant or something like that.

I use mighty crobes in my hydro setup. My girls were 10 days old no roots coming through the pots. I used 4 oz for 6 gallon of rez and had roots from all in 3 days. Don't know if it was the mighty crobes but it didn't hurt.

i dont have any kelp is that a requirement? ive already spent $500+ on everything so im broke as a joke

and how often should I water with this stuff?

In AACT making you can go without it, I do. (can't get any around)
Its a good food for the bacteria and fungi and a great source for microelements for your grow.

In your grow it supplements for microelements. If you'r supplementing with something else you might not need it.
You mix it in your soil, you don't need to water with it.

whats up guys.

Im about to get some foxfarm organic soil. I was going to get the marine cusine and ocean forest then blend them. What should I do to help build the microbes in the soil? w/o making a compost tea

@sharpshoota: With compost. Add differents kinds of compost to make your biology richer and then just work on not killing them.
Mix in mushroom compost, manure compost, earthworm casting \ compost, alaskan humus and pretty much everything you can find.
To that mix some bat guanos, kelp etc to add more variety.
Thats a nice starting point.

Don't forget to make sure your mix is well aerated. If it doesn't drain too well - add perlite.

To keep them alive you need to give them some sugars once every now and then (a teaspoon of molasses of moist brown sugar in a gallon of water per month).

High salt buildups kill nematodes and some fungi - its a big no-no with gardening by the soil-food-web theory. No P\K boost at the end of flowering...
Also chlorine from treated water kills pretty much everything. If you'r water have chlorine in them you should let them sit in an open bucket for 24-48 hours to let the chlorine evaporate, or bubble them with an air pump for 4 hours before watering.

You can add 2 tablespoons of dolomite lime per gallon of mix to eliminate pH worries.



There are quite a few recipes around, search for LC's mix as a starting point.

McFonz said:

I'm sorry for being rude, but it looks like a piece of bullshit.

"...This patented aging process allows the microbes to achieve a rich diversity of aerobic, anaerobic and facultative organisms (Mycorrhizae fungi, beneficial Nematodes, beneficial bacteria etc.). ..."

If its bottled for more than a week I don't know many aerobic microbes that will survive as oxygen will run out.


I use something that this product claims to be pretty similar to, only I spend less than a dollar per application.
anyway.

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Totally false statement. Due to the advances in technology, it is now possible to put microbes and fungi into a comatose state by depriving them of a food source. In doing so the microbes and fungi alike use less energy to survive thus less biological function i.e. oxygen. With today's advances in the microbe community, I think your going to be alright with a shelf life of about 2-3months or about 2 complete plant cycles.

Microbes and fungi are good to add to a plant as soon as it begins rooting up until the plant dies. In some cases you can also use them as a foliage spray.

http://www.soilfoodweb.com/sfi_approach1.html

If you want to learn more.

not sure where people get the idea we dont need to pH. all lime does is set it or help keep it there..nothing is fool proof for pH. thsoe that dont ph foods or water use way more food than us that do.

mightymike said:

Totally false statement. Due to the advances in technology, it is now possible to put microbes and fungi into a comatose state by depriving them of a food source. In doing so the microbes and fungi alike use less energy to survive thus less biological function i.e. oxygen. With today's advances in the microbe community, I think your going to be alright with a shelf life of about 2-3months or about 2 complete plant cycles.

Microbes and fungi are good to add to a plant as soon as it begins rooting up until the plant dies. In some cases you can also use them as a foliage spray.

http://www.soilfoodweb.com/sfi_approach1.html

If you want to learn more.

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How do they do that?
And how does the anaerobic microbes don't multiply in their account?

Medi 1 said:

not sure where people get the idea we dont need to pH. all lime does is set it or help keep it there..nothing is fool proof for pH. thsoe that dont ph foods or water use way more food than us that do.

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Unless the soil has some pH buffer and your solution isn't way off balance. Which is usually the case with proper organic soil mixes.

McFonz said:

How do they do that?
And how does the anaerobic microbes don't multiply in their account?

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Unfortunately the process of putting microbes/fungi into dormancy is highly complicated and often times considered proprietary information by companies in the industry. I cannot even begin to claim that I have an understanding on how the process goes but, I can tell you from first-hand experience that it works.

I'm not disagreeing with you on brewing your own compost tea. And if I had the time, I would do it for every crop. But, I just don't. So if I can spend a little cash and have a product on hand, ready to use, with a shelf-life, show me where to sign.

On the anaerobic microbes:

I know that much about anaerobic microbes (just been through that in class a few days ago), but that doesn't answer the question how come the anaerobic microbes take over the space of aerobic microbes.

Research Endospores, Endosporulation, and Sporulation, that should answer your questions. Long story short, stressed microbes don't reproduce normally, they actually change cell structure and form creating a spore that can last in dormancy for thousands of years.

Endospores are a way for a small number of bacteria's to stay alive when terms aren't ideal.
It doesn't have to do much with being aerobic or anaerobic and doesn't keep up the numbers.

Usually if those bacterias are so hardy they won't be the issue with your grow.

Endospores are not a way to keep the DIVERSITY or AEROBIC bacterias in the product.
And thats without talking about fungi and other microbes that aren't related to this procedure.

And you don't need any high-tech gear to use that system.

Yea, I guess your not getting the point here. Your original question was regarding the anaerobic microbes and their living conditions inside the bottle. Which was answered. I don't believe I ever claimed that endospores are a way to keep diversity or aerobic bacteria in the product but, does it not make sense, that by forcing this "small number" of bacteria into dormancy, you are in fact preserving some sort of diversity within that group. As for the aerobic bacteria and fungi, given the proper conditions even they can be put to sleep.

Look I don't care, keep being stuck in your own ways, not my loss. All I know is, after I started using bene's out of a bottle, my growth has been just as good if not better than when I was brewing my own compost tea. So don't use it your head might explode.

Endospore-forming bacteria include:

Acetonema
Alkalibacillus
Ammoniphilus
Amphibacillus
Anaerobacter
Anaerospora
Aneurinibacillus
Anoxybacillus
Bacillus
Brevibacillus
Caldanaerobacter
Caloramator
Caminicella
Cerasibacillus
Clostridium
Clostridiisalibacter
Cohnella
Coxiella
Dendrosporobacter
Desulfotomaculum
Desulfosporomusa
Desulfosporosinus
Desulfovirgula
Desulfunispora
Desulfurispora
Filifactor
Filobacillus
Gelria
Geobacillus
Geosporobacter
Gracilibacillus
Halonatronum
Heliobacterium
Heliophilum
Laceyella
Lentibacillus
Lysinibacillus
Mahella
Metabacterium
Moorella
Natroniella
Oceanobacillus
Orenia
Ornithinibacillus
Oxalophagus
Oxobacter
Paenibacillus
Paraliobacillus
Pelospora
Pelotomaculum
Piscibacillus
Planifilum
Pontibacillus
Propionispora
Salinibacillus
Salsuginibacillus
Seinonella
Shimazuella
Sporacetigenium
Sporoanaerobacter
Sporobacter
Sporobacterium
Sporohalobacter
Sporolactobacillus
Sporomusa
Sporosarcina
Sporotalea
Sporotomaculum
Syntrophomonas
Syntrophospora
Tenuibacillus
Tepidibacter
Terribacillus
Thalassobacillus
Thermoacetogenium
Thermoactinomyces
Thermoalkalibacillus
Thermoanaerobacter
Thermoanaeromonas
Thermobacillus
Thermoflavimicrobium
Thermovenabulum
Tuberibacillus
Virgibacillus
Vulcanobacillus

That's not even getting into species.