When do you get a soul??

Moebius

Well-Known Member
will i have all this bible stored in my brain so at times things come together like 2 and 2.. like ankle and foot:lol:
Well, this is what we have to avoid. Allowing our past to infect our current critical thinking. I was an altar boy at Catholic church, I know the bible. But picking bits out and fitting it in a pseudo-scientific manner will not provide answers.

I like the bible, but its a book meant for quiet reflection and won't give us any science.
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
Do humans acquire a soul at the moment of conception, or birth? Or sometime between then? Or when? Im conflicted by this question all the time.
...soul, to me, is psyche. It is also 'sun' to me. So, to that effect, one would say "you'll 'get' a soul when all of your parts are integrated". That's the Christian 'son', it is a fully developed psyche. Something about 're-membering' comes to mind...

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Moebius

Well-Known Member
...soul, to me, is psyche. It is also 'sun' to me. So, to that effect, one would say "you'll 'get' a soul when all of your parts are integrated". That's the Christian 'son', it is a fully developed psyche. Something about 're-membering' comes to mind...

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Can you elaborate on this idea? I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying.

edit: particularly the 'sun' part
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
Can you elaborate on this idea? I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying.

edit: particularly the 'sun' part
...Christians see the sun as the active (or tangible) phase of something non-tangible. It's an expression of something else that is unseen. There's no doubt that God is the sun in the physical, but also in the psychical. In the sun there is fusion, in a 'son' there is fusion of right / left, etc... a place where opposites exist in harmony.
 

Moebius

Well-Known Member
...Christians see the sun as the active (or tangible) phase of something non-tangible. It's an expression of something else that is unseen. There's no doubt that God is the sun in the physical, but also in the psychical. In the sun there is fusion, in a 'son' there is fusion of right / left, etc... a place where opposites exist in harmony.
Is this a particular school of thought? sounds familiar .... is it 'neo islamic' teachings, for want of a better expression.
 

DirtyGloveLuv

New Member
Do you have anything more to contribute to the dabate? Or is your ego forcing you to remain on this thread?
ego.....its definetly humor not ego hahaha your funny, keep trying 2 convince yourself your an intellectual. seriously dont cry when you talk shit 2 somone and they fuck w you a lil back hahahahaha
 

Moebius

Well-Known Member
ego.....its definetly humor not ego hahaha your funny, keep trying 2 convince yourself your an intellectual. seriously dont cry when you talk shit 2 somone and they fuck w you a lil back hahahahaha
Im not crying, just asking if all you want to do is trade insults or do you have any thoughts that might be considered interesting.

I'm not intellectual, just inquisitive.
 

Shannon Alexander

Well-Known Member
hahaha you really need 2 go make a baby thats what your here for in your own belief system. your calling me a moron for not agreeing with your opinions? i understand why your so angry being born underhanded and weaker than men but its not your fault your not intellectually on the level of a man no matter how angry you get or how big of words you try 2 use.
You once again prove your lack of comprehension skills... I have not been talking to you about any kind of belief system all I am attempting to do is convey the very simple truth that it is unknowable how harmful or good any one act or number of acts has been for the world/humanity compared to if something different had have happened... That is just plain and simple fact...
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
To whoever it was that said animals are separate from humans and don't operate on a level higher than their own environment, what about chimps or bonobo's? What about dolphins or orca's? I can think of a dozen different species of animal that very clearly, and demonstrably, have higher cognitive abilities than simple basic instinct. Even some insect species show signs of higher intelligence. I find it very hard to believe that humans are the only animal species on the planet that understand emotion or introspect.

Having said that, if consciousness is your only standard for a soul, you should include those species that show signs of consciousness, or exactly define what you mean by 'consciousness', which is a somewhat vague term.

Also, if we're not animals, what are we?
 

Moebius

Well-Known Member
To whoever it was that said animals are separate from humans and don't operate on a level higher than their own environment, what about chimps or bonobo's? What about dolphins or orca's? I can think of a dozen different species of animal that very clearly, and demonstrably, have higher cognitive abilities than simple basic instinct. Even some insect species show signs of higher intelligence. I find it very hard to believe that humans are the only animal species on the planet that understand emotion or introspect.

Having said that, if consciousness is your only standard for a soul, you should include those species that show signs of consciousness, or exactly define what you mean by 'consciousness', which is a somewhat vague term.

Also, if we're not animals, what are we?
You're right that the definition of consciousness is a problem. Difficult to debate with the confines of a thread. ..... Consciousness could be defined as simply 'sensing' in which case an amoeba could be said to have consciousness.

For the purpose of this point ... I define 'consciousness' as self awareness. The ability to think of abstract concepts and the curse of knowing ones mortality.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
@ Shannon, perhaps we can remove speculation from the equation completely, why don't we look at statistics of other countries, like Sweden or Japan, which has a large non-religious population, and compare them with dominantly religious countries, like Iran, Pakistan, Uganda or even the USA?

Do you agree by comparing the statistics, you would get a good idea of things like crime rate, poverty levels, literacy rates, etc. Would you then agree we can get a reasonably accurate measurement of whether or not history would have been better or worse given more belief or less? Although speculation, would you finally agree that it's useful information to have?
 

Moebius

Well-Known Member
RE: if were not animals, what are we?

I see the question slightly different.

I see us as being more than animals. You wouldnt call a table a piece of wood. Or even a cow as a piece of meat. Why call Humans animals? I except this may be seen as philosophical semantics but for me the distinction is clear.
 

Moebius

Well-Known Member
...in a way, yes, it would go back to gnosticism. This is also catholic, if you can believe it.
I thought it sounded like the 5%.

The church of Islam
[h=3]Universal Flag[/h] The Universal Flag is the group's official trademark, which consists of a sun, moon, star, and the number seven. According to its doctrine, it represents the Original Family as the following:

  • Seven—The number held sacred in many ancient and modern traditions. In Supreme Mathematics, the number seven represents God, that is, the Original Man, not the mystery god of many organized religions.

  • Sun—Another symbol of the male, Knowledge, the Truth, and the Light. The points around the sun symbolize the expanding consciousness.

  • Moon—The crescent moon symbolizes the women and wisdom.

  • Star—The five-pointed star symbolizes understanding and children as the beginning of a new sun.
The eight outer rays (points) of the Sun have also been spoken as representative of the core components Nation of Gods and Earths’ teachings:

  1. Supreme Mathematics
  2. Supreme Alphabet
  3. Student Enrollment (1–10)
  4. Lost & Found Muslim Lesson #1 (1–14)
  5. Lost & Found Muslim Lesson #2 (1–40)
  6. English Lesson C-1 (1–36)
  7. Actual Facts
  8. Solar Facts
The last six of these bodies of lessons (1–10 through Solar Facts) are collectively called 120.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
You're right that the definition of consciousness is a problem. Difficult to debate with the confines of a thread. ..... Consciousness could be defined as simply 'sensing' in which case an amoeba could be said to have consciousness.

For the purpose of this point ... I define 'consciousness' as self awareness. The ability to think of abstract concepts and the curse of knowing ones mortality.
I can already see a problem with that definition as it would have to include those humans that lack the ability to think of abstract concepts or ponder their own mortality, like severely mentally handicapped people or people who go through traumatic brain injuries. They're still awake, alive, but would you call them 'unconscious'? Doesn't unconscious mean the lights go out? You're unconscious when you get KO'd (literally knocked out), and when you go to sleep.
 
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