Which approach will win?

tstick

Well-Known Member
Seems to be two schools of thought out there at the moment.

A: You buy a budget-priced Chinese knockoff light and dispose of it in a couple years. Buy another new budget light when the old one becomes outdated.

B: You spend a high amount of money for the "best" light with the highest efficiency, etc. and hope that it doesn't get outmoded in a year or two.

In practical experience, almost any strong light source will successfully grow marijuana...doesn't matter to the plants how efficient it is. Plants just want photons. Almost any kind of light will do. The whole efficiency thing seems to be relevant only to light designers and also to very large grow ops who are burning tons of electricity. But for most of us, we might commit to 15 or 20 weeks out of each year for our gardening hobby. Is the most efficient light going to make a big difference to the small time guys? I'm not sure. In my state, electricity is fairly cheap so super efficient lights aren't a big necessity. In other areas, it might be different. But hey, I like cool lights as much as the next grower....

The pricing on the new ChilLED fixtures is kinda what motivated this thread. They're at (or near) the top of the efficiency game and their prices reflect it (pun intended). Sure, I want one...in the same way I used to want an Apache Tech light back in 2012. I want to be the kid with the cool new Stingray bike, too! (By the way, Apache Techs are still available and for the same high prices -but the technology hasn't changed.) In a way, I respect that because it means that if you commit to an Apache Tech light, today, then in 5 or 10 years of having them dialed into your system, you can always get another one when (and IF) you need. They haven't seen the need to update anything in terms of their lights -or their terrible website!;) I guess they believe in their product enough to not evolve it. But, other than them, almost every light design that was out 5 years ago has completely evolved. It used to be Cree COBs and then that switched to quantum boards and Samsung chips....If I had to guess, I'd say that boards are here to stay for awhile...but the chips and spectral options will continue to get better and better.

So, which school of thought do you subscribe to? Commit to today's best lights? Or just keep upgrading every year or two?

:)
 

bk78

Well-Known Member
Seems to be two schools of thought out there at the moment.

A: You buy a budget-priced Chinese knockoff light and dispose of it in a couple years. Buy another new budget light when the old one becomes outdated.

B: You spend a high amount of money for the "best" light with the highest efficiency, etc. and hope that it doesn't get outmoded in a year or two.

In practical experience, almost any strong light source will successfully grow marijuana...doesn't matter to the plants how efficient it is. Plants just want photons. Almost any kind of light will do. The whole efficiency thing seems to be relevant only to light designers and also to very large grow ops who are burning tons of electricity. But for most of us, we might commit to 15 or 20 weeks out of each year for our gardening hobby. Is the most efficient light going to make a big difference to the small time guys? I'm not sure. In my state, electricity is fairly cheap so super efficient lights aren't a big necessity. In other areas, it might be different. But hey, I like cool lights as much as the next grower....

The pricing on the new ChilLED fixtures is kinda what motivated this thread. They're at (or near) the top of the efficiency game and their prices reflect it (pun intended). Sure, I want one...in the same way I used to want an Apache Tech light back in 2012. I want to be the kid with the cool new Stingray bike, too! (By the way, Apache Techs are still available and for the same high prices -but the technology hasn't changed.) In a way, I respect that because it means that if you commit to an Apache Tech light, today, then in 5 or 10 years of having them dialed into your system, you can always get another one when (and IF) you need. They haven't seen the need to update anything in terms of their lights -or their terrible website!;) I guess they believe in their product enough to not evolve it. But, other than them, almost every light design that was out 5 years ago has completely evolved. It used to be Cree COBs and then that switched to quantum boards and Samsung chips....If I had to guess, I'd say that boards are here to stay for awhile...but the chips and spectral options will continue to get better and better.

So, which school of thought do you subscribe to? Commit to today's best lights? Or just keep upgrading every year or two?

:)
So how many of your Chinese knock off boards have stopped working since you bought them?
 

zep_lover

Well-Known Member
i have my cxb 3590 lights still working from 5 years ago.3500k
i have 2 kingbrite 320 watt 3 board knock offs from 2 or so years ago still working fine.3500 k with uv and ir and far red epi
i have 6 budget led series 2 red spec 350 watt 3 boards from last spring still working fine.3000k with Osram Deep Red LED 660nm, and Osram Far Red 730nm
i just bought two geek light pro 630 watt lights. 3000 k with uv and ir and far red.
i would have to say the improvements in added spectrums do make a big difference.
the newest lights have the plants finishing faster with more colors.
nothing earth shattering but a nice benefit.
no failures and i run most of the lights on max all of the time except when i first bring the plants from veg room to flowering room for the first week of flower.
so far both knock offs and name brands have grown good and not broke down for me.
 

tstick

Well-Known Member
You literally could have this survey for any electronic device.
Yeah I guess you're right but lighting seems to far outweigh any other electronic device associated with growing marijuana. Things like exhaust fans and Variacs just don't seem to matter as much as lighting...and most don't cost nearly as much to invest in....for the small grow op/personal use growers, anyway. I guess I'd invest in a ChilLED if I could afford to....But then I'd worry that next year, Samsung or Osram, Cree, etc. will come out with an even more perfect chip...Or Meanwell will create some new kind of super efficient driver that will obliterate the old models. Not to say that the old models won't continue to work just fine to grow the weed...I have a bunch of old tech, too and it works as well today as it did when everyone was going crazy over it years ago.
Now they are almost antiques! ;) But when I see a knockoff that has all the new cool chips and latest stuff for a fraction of what a ChilLED light goes for...and likely will grow weed every bit as well as the ChilLED, it's a real temptation to try one or two of them. So I probably will do just that. But I also remember several years ago, when the cheap knockoff lights were being put down pretty hard and people were being advised to avoid them and buy something of a higher quality. Remember those days? Seems like the knockoffs have upped their game since those days....?
 

jcdws602

Well-Known Member
Seems to be two schools of thought out there at the moment.

A: You buy a budget-priced Chinese knockoff light and dispose of it in a couple years. Buy another new budget light when the old one becomes outdated.

B: You spend a high amount of money for the "best" light with the highest efficiency, etc. and hope that it doesn't get outmoded in a year or two.

In practical experience, almost any strong light source will successfully grow marijuana...doesn't matter to the plants how efficient it is. Plants just want photons. Almost any kind of light will do. The whole efficiency thing seems to be relevant only to light designers and also to very large grow ops who are burning tons of electricity. But for most of us, we might commit to 15 or 20 weeks out of each year for our gardening hobby. Is the most efficient light going to make a big difference to the small time guys? I'm not sure. In my state, electricity is fairly cheap so super efficient lights aren't a big necessity. In other areas, it might be different. But hey, I like cool lights as much as the next grower....

The pricing on the new ChilLED fixtures is kinda what motivated this thread. They're at (or near) the top of the efficiency game and their prices reflect it (pun intended). Sure, I want one...in the same way I used to want an Apache Tech light back in 2012. I want to be the kid with the cool new Stingray bike, too! (By the way, Apache Techs are still available and for the same high prices -but the technology hasn't changed.) In a way, I respect that because it means that if you commit to an Apache Tech light, today, then in 5 or 10 years of having them dialed into your system, you can always get another one when (and IF) you need. They haven't seen the need to update anything in terms of their lights -or their terrible website!;) I guess they believe in their product enough to not evolve it. But, other than them, almost every light design that was out 5 years ago has completely evolved. It used to be Cree COBs and then that switched to quantum boards and Samsung chips....If I had to guess, I'd say that boards are here to stay for awhile...but the chips and spectral options will continue to get better and better.

So, which school of thought do you subscribe to? Commit to today's best lights? Or just keep upgrading every year or two?

:)
You make a very valid point considering how fast these leds are evolving to buy these knockoffs. As a matter of fact, that is the sole reason I ended up buying kingbrite lm301h boards. From a financial point of view the pace that these light are evolving it made no sense in investing in the higher end manufactured lights when these knockoffs are close in specs and efficiency at about half the price.
 

quirk

Well-Known Member
In my opinion,
A quality light will not be outmoded. I purchased my CLW's back in 2014 and never looked back. Will new technology lights produce
a noticeably higher yield? Perhaps in commercial grows but I haven't seen evidence of that in home grows. The only thing that has
resulted in higher yield/quality grows for me has been knowledge and genetics. Organic soil auto grower.
 

tilopa

Well-Known Member
Why should Chinese lights last less than the US name brands? They both use the same Samsung diodes and Meanwell drivers. The rest is just simple electronics.

I liken the LED market right now to the personal computer market in the late 90's. Not long after you bought your first computer it was becoming outdated with newer models. I would not spend a ton of money on LED lights right now because the high efficiency high CRI lights you buy today will feel outdated in a couple years with even better efficiency and performance.
 

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Why should Chinese lights last less than the US name brands? They both use the same Samsung diodes and Meanwell drivers.
Some do, and many don't. Many don't use Meanwell drivers, and some who do (such as Mars Hydro) use the lower quality series of drivers (which come with shorter warranties from Meanwell). Many may use Samsung diodes, but they may not be LM301 diodes, and if they are, they may be using lower bin diodes (again, such as Mars hydro). Not sure how many reports we've seen of Mars lights shocking growers, but clearly the quality control of many Chinese imports is just not up to par.
 

GrassBurner

Well-Known Member
Mainly quality control. Same thing with a lot of Chinese manufacturing, they say your getting a part made with "x" material, and when it shows up, it's obviously "y". They're more likely to put broken but functioning parts inside, as long as it turns on.
Much more accountability for a US Company. Not saying its widespread,but your much more likely to get lower quality parts, and definitely a longer customer service process.
 

GrassBurner

Well-Known Member
Some do, and many don't. Many don't use Meanwell drivers, and some who do (such as Mars Hydro) use the lower quality series of drivers (which come with shorter warranties from Meanwell). Many may use Samsung diodes, but they may not be LM301 diodes, and if they are, they may be using lower bin diodes (again, such as Mars hydro). Not sure how many reports we've seen of Mars lights shocking growers, but clearly the quality control of many Chinese imports is just not up to par.
We must be smoking the same shit tonight :lol:
 

bernie344

Well-Known Member
Mainly quality control. Same thing with a lot of Chinese manufacturing, they say your getting a part made with "x" material, and when it shows up, it's obviously "y". They're more likely to put broken but functioning parts inside, as long as it turns on.
Much more accountability for a US Company. Not saying its widespread,but your much more likely to get lower quality parts, and definitely a longer customer service process.
Thats what they used to say about Toyotas.
Stop waving the flag.
The US is best at marketing, they managed to sell tasteless hamburgers to millions of people all over the world.
If Im gonna spend top dollar Id be going to the Dutch years ahead of the US.
 

nogod_

Well-Known Member
Still running the same 77v cxa3590 cobs at 350mA since 2014.

I have built a number of strip panels for friends but see no reason to upgrade what I have in my cabs, plenty of things I'd rather spend my dough on. Everything still works and the plants have always responded positively to 3000k for veg and flower.

As someone who knew almost nothing about electronics before finding this forum, I can't for the life of me fathom why one wouldn't want to build and service their own fixture after 5 minutes of reading here.

Miss reading all of stardustsailors wacky rants but glad to see folks are still innovating and sharing and most of all growing good dope.

Cheers
 
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