Who is using Luxeon Rebel Deep Red Leds?

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
*Plant Neurobiology


Professor Van Volkenburgh has a special interest in plant behavior (which in brief she defines as
“development based on physiological sensing and responding”) and in plant neurobiology (“how plants
process the information they obtain from their environment to develop, prosper and reproduce
optimally”), some aspects of which are not covered in the textbook. The following derives from her
lectures except as noted.
Plants synthesize various animal neurotransmitters and neuroactive compounds (such as caffeine,
glutamate, GABA, ACH, serotonin, L-DOPA, dopamine, and melatonin). Are the glutamate receptors in
plants used in auxin signaling? Many of the neuroactive compounds made by plants may be defensive and
part of their “chemical ecology”.
Plants exhibit two types of electrical signaling. The membrane potential is held at about -180 mV. It was
previously thought that plants had no significant electrical activity or electrical excitability.
• Action Potential: This requires a threshold depolarization before it fires following a stimulus (such
as light, touch, wound, insect bite or saliva, etc.), and leads to an all-or-nothing response (as with
animal neural action potentials). This phenomenon and the accompanying fluxes have been mostly
but still incompletely studied in the giant Charophyta green alga Chara. It propagates at a constant
velocity, and is completed over a duration of minutes. (In contrast, animal action potentials
propagate typically over a fraction of a second.) The propagation may occur in the phloem, perhaps in
the parenchymal cells, crossing plasmodesmata, etc., to reach the leaves (details have not been fully
worked out). After the initial stimulus, the action potential consists of an initial positive rise in Em
resulting from Cl- outflux and Ca++ influx. (Unlike in animals, sodium ion flux plays no role.) After the
positive peak is reached, the Em rapidly falls to more negative than the baseline negative value, as H+
and K+ outflux. The Em then returns to baseline with influx of K+. (some details missing)
• Slow Wave Potentials (also called by some Variation Potentials). These are generated by an increase
in pressure at the site of origin, but are different from action potentials. Mechanoreceptors detect a
touch, wound, or insect bite perturbation with resulting pressure changes (including changes in the
usual negative xylem pressure). Ion channels open and a change in membrane potential Em propagates
slowly from the point of injury or stimulation to the remainder of the shoot over a period of 10 minutes
to one hour. The slow wave potential change propagates in the xylem to the cortex and epidermis,
and it is the electrical changes in the outer cells that are observed. Unlike action potentials, slow wave
potentials do not depend on a threshold to be initiated, and exhibit decreasing amplitude and
decreasing speed of propagation with distance from the site of initiation.
In plants, auxin may serve as a type of neurotransmitter, as with polar auxin transport PAT,
in which an action potential-like event results from IAA secretion...

Examples of plants responding to their environment include:

• Phototropism and Sun Tracking
• Venus flytrap: The trap has sensitive hairs which when sufficiently stimulated trigger a depolarization
of membrane potential, causing the cells of the hinge to lose turgor on top and gain turgor and elongate
on the bottom (from influx of K+), resulting in closure of the hinge...
• Flowering in plants resulting from PHY detection of light, FT Protein transmitted in phloem, etc.
• Tomato Wound Response: Insect bites lead to propagation of an action potential, along with
synthesis of systemin (a peptide hormone) in wounded phloem parenchyma cells. (The systemin
pathway leads to synthesis of jasmonic acid, which propagates in the phloem.)
• Hypersensitivity responses: including local necrosis.
• Chitinases: these are directed against insects and fungi.
• Phytoalexins: plant antibiotics, including terpenoids, glycosteroids and alkaloids.


( cryptochromes are found on retinal tissue, of higher animal's eyes ...Including humans...
Once we were plants...
There are many "indications",about that......)




From a stardust alchemist ...

https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/579852-sunlight-project-sun-ultimate-guide-2.html#post8230272
 

Lemon Sour

Active Member
I personally would shoot for more like 10-15% blue in flower. I would say the reds are far more important, and in my small amount of experience so far (i am new to this too) i would say that maybe more than 20% or so actually might stunt the plant. (edit: this could give the appearance of not giving the plant enough energy maybe?)

Cool on the diodes, i'll keep that in mind. Going to go ahead with this and see how it goes. Fingers crossed!
I was wondering this myself actually and read up on it. You might be right about having less blue is better because there is this point when plants can get over-saturated with light and the photosynthesis process comes to a halt or something. But then the other wavelengths like green help to reduce the saturation point. Maybe that's why I'm seeing better results with the lower powered led lights that have no additional wavelength added other than red and blue.

Green Surfer here on the forum has been running leds for a few years or so I think and never goes much above 100 watts and his buds look like they were grown under a 1000w HID, maybe better color. Pretty sure he stays around 1sq meter area, but still, awesome herb. I think he runs his reds at like 85% to the other wavelengths so that's about the same. Check out his work!

He uses the goods for nutes and uses soil. I'm getting anxious to figure the leds and wavelength out so I can grow some low-mercury buds myself!
What ratio or number/colors are you going to use for the LedEngin light you are going to make?
 

RainerRocks

Active Member
I like this post..always so much to learn and the wonder of it all !

PS: It still doesn't explain why men always get lost and refuse to ask for directions and yet men have shorter iives than women..LOL..just kidding of course ...it was the
first thing that came to my mind after reading your post . :)


I read about this study that had to do with cryptochromes they found a gene in the human eye that was missing a link they think we had fully functioning cryptochromes in our eyes! So this is the same gene that creatures use to sense the earths magnetic field the same way plants sense light waves and move towards it. So in other words, our eyes and plants have something in common, crazy huh?!

Since the gene can only exist in super oxidative and harmful environments the science people think that we evolved away from it in exchange to live longer. So in other words, we gave up the ability to sense the earth's magnetic field in place of living longer. Great, so it turns out that we were never lost, but didn't live a long time, but now we are lost all the time and live longer. Hey you know what, I like being lost. New motto, "Live Long and Be Loster"

This is the same gene that fruitflies use to orient themselves, and when they took it out of the fly it just wandered about aimlessly. Stuck it back in and it had direction again, but flies suck so.........

Makes me wonder if we use to absorb light for food at one time and honestly I think plants do actually "see" more than we do, just a little differently.
 

FranJan

Well-Known Member
After having not so good of luck with the LedEngin deep red I bought some of the Luxeon 670nm to try. Maybe I will even mix the 2 with Cree xpe red and Luxeon Royal blue. I also grabbed some 735nm and 365nm for the heck of it to see if it will do anything. Oh yeah, I got the 410nm to hit that small Chl A peak, these are not cheap, but it is fun to try messing around with!
I've often wondered if 365nm can be a positive antagonist for THC production or trich density. I know they use that for curing acrylic nails, and I've wondered if it can have some effect on cannabis. I actually have 4 365nm CFL induction bulbs, but don't have the proper lamp to run them. And here's something interesting from Wiki P I just saw;
"Light-emitting diodes (LEDs) can be manufactured to emit light in the ultraviolet range, although practical LED arrays are very limited below 365 nm. LED efficiency at 365 nm is about 5–8%, whereas efficiency at 395 nm is closer to 20%, and power outputs at these longer UV wavelengths are also better." Sounds like lots of energy in for little output in return. Then again if it can help it may be worth it.

And are you going to put the 670s in the flowering room? Too much 670nm in flowering can send some mixed signals to your plants IMHO. It delays flowering according to Rosenthal, and I've found too much in flowering stresses plants. I had a panel that had a few 670s in it and my grow has been more successful since that panels removal from my flowering tent. One of the reasons I'm not a fan of Warm White LEDs in the flowering room.

Most 460nm blues cover 450-470 and supply the plant all it needs. If you use true horti/scientific diodes, you would probably need to cover those spectrums individually since true horti diodes shouldn't be more than 10nm wide. Good Luck with lights Lemon!
 

SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
Lemon, My initial setup will be

24x LZ1 Deep red

up to 8x LZ1 Royal Blue, maybe only use 4 though

4x LZ1 Far Red, would like more but they can be dodgy to experiment with (shade avoidance syndrome) might add another 4 at a later date (these will also be on a seperate circuit)

a 40w panel of chinese 615-630nm "orange reds", hopefully the bins will be nice and varied to give me a good spectral distribution

LZ1's are the supposedly 5w but actually more like 3w Ledengin modules.

edit: you can find a bunch of stuff on far red light by searching this forum.
 

Lemon Sour

Active Member
LZ1's are the supposedly 5w but actually more like 3w Ledengin modules.

edit: you can find a bunch of stuff on far red light by searching this forum.
Right, the 3w Cree XML you can even run up to 3000mA so they actually have the potential to be even brighter than the LedEngin 5w. It's just the way they advertise them. The 10w LZ4 leds used to be advertised as 15w at one point, but they backed off the max amperage and suggest running them at 700mA to 1A now.

LZ1 is single die and the LZ4 is 4-chip die. The dies are the same in both confirmed by LedEngin, all in all they aren't as efficient as Cree and Luxeon leds are.
 
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