Who wants bigger gov't??? Please help me understand liberals.

londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
All depends on what you union you belong to......I know and have seen unions do some wonderful things for the workers... From x-mas bonus to extra vacation days union was able to get for the workers...try doing this without one and see how long you have a job.....ask the teachers union what they do for teachers...ask the UAW what they do for the aircraft worker....police unions..hell don't tell me they don't get involved......now if you belong to some lame as union that just takes your dough and you don't do something like becoming a stewart or something to make a change then that's on you ...Its like complaining and not trying to do something about it.....hmmmm maybe thats the way you are built......and far as the person who state they would not buy a car from a union...hey you only hurting American familys and thats retarded if you American.... I guess you like sweat shops they don't have any union....American's...don't need anyone to destroy America they doing it all by themselves..ME ME ME NO NO NO HATE HATE HATE
 
ancap

ancap

Active Member
Illegal Smile said:
With the exception of the military and some infrastructure I agree, government is useless.
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I think this is a very sensible thing to believe, but I'll bet if you give it some more thought you'll see that security and infrastructure can be handled better by the free market. If the ONLY reason to keep a fundamentally immoral institution around is to provide for a handful of essential services out of the magnitude which the free market provide handily, we really need to be sure that the free market cannot also manage these as well.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
IF the private sector was in charge of the military , this country would have an even BETTER military.

It doesn't matter what sector you choose, the private sector can do it better.

It's more about control than efficiency when it comes to the govt.

There are no "good" unions. The very principle of a union is anti employer. In the long run it hurts the union worker. A cursory review of the heavily unionized states will also reveal states that are the worst off financially.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
CrackerJax said:
IF the private sector was in charge of the military , this country would have an even BETTER military.

It doesn't matter what sector you choose, the private sector can do it better.

It's more about control than efficiency when it comes to the govt.

There are no "good" unions. The very principle of a union is anti employer. In the long run it hurts the union worker. A cursory review of the heavily unionized states will also reveal states that are the worst off financially.
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Yeah, we see how wonderful Blackwater is. They kill at will, or at least they did. The government loves to have a private army that has no ties to them. Wait untill they are patrolling the streets of the US. Private armies and private prisons, what could go wrong?
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
Blackwater is not a private sector military arm. It's just security.... and in WAR ZONES... stuff happens. Nuff said there.

Why don't you list Al Queda atrocities? It's not one sided. It's not even close.


Either way, you haven't proven a thing.

Non union ALWAYS outperforms Union. EVERY TIME!!

Unions are a corrosive element in the USA business world. Government too.

Anyone wonder where all the taxpayer money gets wasted? Unions....
 
ancap

ancap

Active Member
medicineman said:
Yeah, we see how wonderful Blackwater is. They kill at will, or at least they did. The government loves to have a private army that has no ties to them. Wait untill they are patrolling the streets of the US. Private armies and private prisons, what could go wrong?
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The US taxpayers subsidize Blackwater. Blackwater is not accountable to a true customer base.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
CrackerJax said:
Non union ALWAYS outperforms Union. EVERY TIME!!

Unions are a corrosive element in the USA business world. Government too.

Anyone wonder where all the taxpayer money gets wasted? Unions....
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Comments like this is just like Sara Palin giving a interview..just let her keep talking she will screw her ownself........

Unions my friend is what made the working middle class...Unions are the backbone of the American workplace...It stops greedy corporations and its management from working its employees like slaves...now if you like cheap slave labor then yes you are right unions may not be your thing....Unions make sure workers are getting good pay and good benefits...again you can tell what a person is just by listening to ( or reading ) what he/she saids...and you my friend are a real piece of work....What makes Capitalism bad is people like you ...GREED...reason why capitalism failing right now
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
Living in the past. Unions had a purpose when workers couldn't get representation. Throw a rock today and hit a lawyer. Collective bargaining impedes progress and ends up hurting the worker.

Gee, what's the unemployment rate in all the big union states? Why, they are the highest in the nation!

By ur reasoning, they should be the LOWEST!!?? (whahhht??)

Reality sucks.... so do unions.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
CrackerJax said:
Living in the past. Unions had a purpose when workers couldn't get representation. Throw a rock today and hit a lawyer. Collective bargaining impedes progress and ends up hurting the worker.

Gee, what's the unemployment rate in all the big union states? Why, they are the highest in the nation!

By ur reasoning, they should be the LOWEST!!?? (whahhht??)

Reality sucks.... so do unions.
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You took the words out of my mouth. The day of the union is over. They are self serving and don't do much for the worker these days. Sure they do some good but I think it's pretty clear to anyone with their eyes open that the damage they do today far outweighs any good they do. ;-)
 
Wavels

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Unions were, in the distant past, valuable and necessary organizations.
They have become anachronistic, parasitic organizations.
The industries which are heavily unionized have become bloated unproductive failures…
Government, the big three Detroit auto makers, and the most outrageous failure of all…the teaching profession.
Unions are now a blight upon our economy.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
WTF...the highest combined unemployment comes from your southern states..yes even your Florida...guess what all these states are "right to work states" ( which means very little union action) ..now Michigan has the highest with the car industry ( stupid management making decisions to keep making gas guzzling cars that people don't buy ) ... name me one southern state that is in the top ten of highest employment state ...you can't !!!! they all at the other end of the list ( except for arkansas )
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
What makes Capitalism bad is people like you ...GREED...reason why capitalism failing right now
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as soon as you can find a way to end greed, i'll jump on whatever bandwagon you're selling. until then i think i'd prefer a system that at least tries to place the power of the marketplace in the hands of the people.

all things may fail. the great socialist dream failed as it degenerated into soviet oppression, it failed as it evolved into china's limited capitalism and it is failing as europe slowly falls into the totalitarian miasma it once feared would invade it from the east. capitalism springs up time and again because those experiments in tyranny eventually show themselves for what they are and the people demand a say in their destiny. they see their governments for the violent creatures they are and demand control of the lifeblood of their economies.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
That's human nature. For most of the wealthy, it isn't about greed. Most of my friends could have quit years ago and lived ridiculously comfortable for the rest of their lives.
It's not about greed, it's about achievement. At some point, the money becomes less an object and more of a side benefit. So which comes first, the wealth or the tools to acquire that wealth.

The tools come first. Choices come first. Money follows the folks with the right choices coupled with the right tools. That part is up to you. No one, no govt. can do it for you.

That's why Capitalism is the most robust economic system. it handles human nature best.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
.....some men just greedy .....
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with very few exceptions, all men are just greedy. it isn't a very pretty trait, but it's a part of us all nonetheless. the mob that clamors for a slice of someone else's pie and the politicians that find a way to steal the belongings of others to give to that mob are exhibiting this trait just as surely as the miser who hoards his wealth in the face of mass poverty. altruism is rare and self-sacrifice is rarer still.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
You can see it in world opinion of obama. Countries that figure take away a few of our slices through Obama's naivete are talking him up! They LOVE him!! They love the opportunity it gives THEM to take advantage.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
undertheice said:
as soon as you can find a way to end greed, i'll jump on whatever bandwagon you're selling. until then i think i'd prefer a system that at least tries to place the power of the marketplace in the hands of the people.

all things may fail. the great socialist dream failed as it degenerated into soviet oppression, it failed as it evolved into china's limited capitalism and it is failing as europe slowly falls into the totalitarian miasma it once feared would invade it from the east. capitalism springs up time and again because those experiments in tyranny eventually show themselves for what they are and the people demand a say in their destiny. they see their governments for the violent creatures they are and demand control of the lifeblood of their economies.
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Yeah, greed is a hell of a thing to waste, LOL.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
Of course you don't realize it but that's 100% correct. With Capitalism, greed is HARNESSED and directed towards the greater good. No other system takes human nature into account better than Capitalism.

That's why it's the best... hands down. Not even close. Capitalism works, and it works best.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
CrackerJax said:
That's human nature. For most of the wealthy, it isn't about greed. Most of my friends could have quit years ago and lived ridiculously comfortable for the rest of their lives.
It's not about greed, it's about achievement. At some point, the money becomes less an object and more of a side benefit. So which comes first, the wealth or the tools to acquire that wealth.

The tools come first. Choices come first. Money follows the folks with the right choices coupled with the right tools. That part is up to you. No one, no govt. can do it for you.

That's why Capitalism is the most robust economic system. it handles human nature best.
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The giant hole in this theory: There is only so much money to go around, so many opportunities to grasp, so many decent paying jobs. Not everyone is an enterpreneur or a genious. Capitalism rewards the most agressive and greedy individuals while making slaves out of the majority. Nepotism reeks in the capitalism system, thereby eliminating many opportunities for the masses. No system is perfect and that includes your beloved capitalism.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
The giant hole in this theory: There is only so much money to go around, so many opportunities to grasp, so many decent paying jobs. Not everyone is an enterpreneur or a genious. Capitalism rewards the most agressive and greedy individuals while making slaves out of the majority. Nepotism reeks in the capitalism system, thereby eliminating many opportunities for the masses. No system is perfect and that includes your beloved capitalism.
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I don't think he said capitalism is perfect, but it is better than socialism. Not everyone can be a CEO or a congressman. We need janitors and assembly line workers and if that's what you aspire to be then great. If you aspire to be more than that look around and take advantage of the opportunities which capitalism offers the determined and the ingenious. Neptotism exists everywhere because it's only natural for people to want to help their buddies and families.
 
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