snowmanexpress
Well-Known Member
Oops sorry.
Who's on the right VS who's on the left
- Thread starter medicineman
- Start date
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
A hopeful side effect of this program was to get rid of a lot of innefficient old junkers that circulate the system. It will be a negative for the people that want to get the cheapest car possible, no way around it really. But there will still be plenty of old crap out there, plus this could help to lower the demand for old used cars since the amount of new cars is increased pushing up the total quality of all cars. Meaning that the lowest rung is now decent cars that you don't need to fred flintsone to break.
To be Honest I would rather see us try to move away from all the private transportation that we now have as it is. We are too dependant on having to have a car in most states. I would love to have a well oiled public transportation system that would allow me to efficiently get everywhere through buses, trains, high speed (long distance travel), and new ideas that we have yet to invent.
This would help free us up from having to have a car to live a good life. Which would free us further from foreign oil.
It would be nice to have all of our needs met within the borders, and just trade for all the wants. We are mostly there, but just need to get of the tit of oil.
To be Honest I would rather see us try to move away from all the private transportation that we now have as it is. We are too dependant on having to have a car in most states. I would love to have a well oiled public transportation system that would allow me to efficiently get everywhere through buses, trains, high speed (long distance travel), and new ideas that we have yet to invent.
This would help free us up from having to have a car to live a good life. Which would free us further from foreign oil.
It would be nice to have all of our needs met within the borders, and just trade for all the wants. We are mostly there, but just need to get of the tit of oil.
snowmanexpress
Well-Known Member
Not me, I'd like my freedom of choice before they tell me to get on a damn bus. Old junkers that circulate? hahaha....Id take any old junker compared to these new computer assisted crapboxes with tire pressure monitoring systems and security enabled bullshit so you gotta be friggin genius to get around starting the damn thing with a remote starter. which is no big deal to me cause Im good with electronics, but, to those who arent, and theyre 2000 chevy impala radio quit working, and you gotta put in a new one, GO THE DEALER! Manufacturers even got the fucking radio unit tied into the damn eeprom these fucking days on the CPU and tied to the vin. Ridiculous technology to make it seem like theyre advancing the vehicle but yet, you as the end-user of the damn car, cant even program the features yourself. Its a crock of BS if you ask me. Useless navigation units that you cant actually fucking use when your driving the damn car. Yeah, that makes sense. Safety is #1! Wanna get into Import vs. Domestic attitudes, and who makes a better car in the first place crap, maybe thats why GM went broke.
Oh yeah, big kudos to them for making a vehicle that actually puts out less emissions out the exhaust than what it takes in the engine in los angeles hahahah......catalytic converter bullshit.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
So you think that a basic 99 neon stick is all that?
And I never said get rid of all private transportation. But to be able to live life without it would be wonderful.
And yes the Big three got way complacent and that is why they are now playing catchup.
I love to hear people say noone wants to buy fuel efficient cars when that is a huge reason that our cars have been getting crushed lately.
And I never said get rid of all private transportation. But to be able to live life without it would be wonderful.
And yes the Big three got way complacent and that is why they are now playing catchup.
I love to hear people say noone wants to buy fuel efficient cars when that is a huge reason that our cars have been getting crushed lately.
jrh72582
Well-Known Member
Public transportation should be priority in America. For anyone who's traveled the world extensively, one thing you'll realize is just how bass ackwards we are here in America when it comes to public transport. In the rest of the world, trains, buses, and high speeds are the MAIN system used. These systems pollute less, cost less, and effectively cut down on car-related deaths, etc...
In short, I LOVED the public transport in Europe and Australia. All developed countries should have reliable public transportation. Period. Granted, we have pockets of great public transport here in the US (chicago, NY, Minneapolis), but it needs to be nationwide. However, the Big 3 wouldn't want that to happen, now would they?
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
snowmanexpress
Well-Known Member
Well, I do have to admit that public trasportation has its uses. But how exactly to implement this system for good should be a no brainer by the conspiracy you posted. ha. Look at that, good ol' history staring me right in the face.
Y'know, take inflated window sticker MPG's for instance,who really gets the reccommended sticker MPG on a vehicle stated. ha. That should be a conspiracy too.
Dodge went broke a couple of times. Ralph taking a dollar for his salary ya right. You know the deal with that old crapola.
Take ol hemi cudas calling a million. Now its funny how we make supply and demand in our own choices by what we buy and consider scarce. Thats wierd how the system works like that, but it's the truth.
Ha, supply and demand. What a joke. Look how they can make the supply more scarce simply by destroying vehicles, like burning money man.
For Barry Bonds to hit a home run ball out of the park, suddenly in a matter of seconds, a new millionaire is born. Funny how that can come to fruitition. And also, how the government can chase you down and make you pay taxes on a ball you caught in the stands hahaha......thats our system at work people!
Like if someone made a breakthru miracle of a car to run on water I bet that person would be murdered on the spot.
Y'know, take inflated window sticker MPG's for instance,who really gets the reccommended sticker MPG on a vehicle stated. ha. That should be a conspiracy too.
Dodge went broke a couple of times. Ralph taking a dollar for his salary ya right. You know the deal with that old crapola.
Take ol hemi cudas calling a million. Now its funny how we make supply and demand in our own choices by what we buy and consider scarce. Thats wierd how the system works like that, but it's the truth.
Ha, supply and demand. What a joke. Look how they can make the supply more scarce simply by destroying vehicles, like burning money man.
For Barry Bonds to hit a home run ball out of the park, suddenly in a matter of seconds, a new millionaire is born. Funny how that can come to fruitition. And also, how the government can chase you down and make you pay taxes on a ball you caught in the stands hahaha......thats our system at work people!
Like if someone made a breakthru miracle of a car to run on water I bet that person would be murdered on the spot.
Bud Frosty
Well-Known Member
Amen.
I loved the rail system in Germany. Back in the 80's I would buy a yearly pass that allowed me to go anywhere in country for like $150. And you were never far from a bahnhoff.
Alot of people don't know that the automakers (Henry Ford-G.M.) bought up most of the patents for inventions that could have been used for public trans in the U.S. from about 1925 to 1960. By then cars were deeply entrenched into our society and the rail system was in shambles.
jrh72582
Well-Known Member
BINGO! You're exactly fuckin' right, my friend. +rep for you good man.
CrackerJax
New Member
What's to predict? We are at or near bottom, and the fed has pushed the money in January to make it all happen. It's the private sector making it happen, not the Government, so you are already wrong....
There will be a "honeymoon" fiscally before the real burdens are set in concrete from the Obama admin. Then after awhile, ANY tick upwards will be met with cheers. Unfortunately the percentage of the uptick will be quite low compared to what we had from the reagan years, you know, when someone actually got what it really takes to get the economy moving.
K
Keenly
Guest
ill keep my private transportation thanks
you cant hotbox a lightrail
you cant hotbox a lightrail
Gropotkin
Member
Subsidies suck - that is how we crashed the Mexican corn market in teh 70s (NAFTA). Subsidies are just one way in which America has become a shadow fascist state. Free Market capitalists (that don't own capital) hate subsidies because they often protect those that market forces would put out of business, sometimes for good reason. Free market capitalists that DO own capital love them however.
http://bailout.propublica.org/
Here is a good place to start re: bailout though. They also have a section about the stimulus.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I love that the same people that thought the sky was falling and Obama was going to crash the country and we would all be in cardboard boxes a couple months ago, are now having to eat that things are getting better.What's to predict? We are at or near bottom, and the fed has pushed the money in January to make it all happen. It's the private sector making it happen, not the Government, so you are already wrong....
There will be a "honeymoon" fiscally before the real burdens are set in concrete from the Obama admin. Then after awhile, ANY tick upwards will be met with cheers. Unfortunately the percentage of the uptick will be quite low compared to what we had from the reagan years, you know, when someone actually got what it really takes to get the economy moving.
Or I would have thought.
All the talking heads on tv that have been so against anything Obama won't give any of these programs props, so no cheering. They just are moving onto the next 'mistake' that they will make.
But I will give some love for the joke you made that the Fed is not technically a Government entity.
Too true, but you can drop acid and ride it to the city and walk around until your ready to head back.
Yeah you are 100% right, ideally we would not have helped subsidize, but they were not ideal situations.
CrackerJax
New Member
Han, your inability to put things into context is simply amazing. Quite a skill to be proud of, surely.
Obama has made us all a lot poorer and most of it has not kicked in yet. The fact that you are UNAWARE of this par for the course, for you. This leads into the fact that Obamas stimulus WASN'T a stimulus package, but a giant wish list of the far far and whacky left, from which he hails from. Now that the first stimulus has failed (by their own admission), Obama is starting to talk about a second stimulus... why?... if the first one has worked like JRH said and you also???? Maybe because again, it ISN'T a stimulus package but another crack at Government control of the private sector.
Of course health care now stands in the way and talk has died down on the second stimulus? Again, why has it died down if it is so imperative like the bunch of malarkey which just got shoved down our throats in stimulus no. 1? Unless there is no rush, there is no crisis, except the crisis in the quick run for POWAH!!
Obama's not in a full sprint to save us..... but to rule us.
Obama has made us all a lot poorer and most of it has not kicked in yet. The fact that you are UNAWARE of this par for the course, for you. This leads into the fact that Obamas stimulus WASN'T a stimulus package, but a giant wish list of the far far and whacky left, from which he hails from. Now that the first stimulus has failed (by their own admission), Obama is starting to talk about a second stimulus... why?... if the first one has worked like JRH said and you also???? Maybe because again, it ISN'T a stimulus package but another crack at Government control of the private sector.
Of course health care now stands in the way and talk has died down on the second stimulus? Again, why has it died down if it is so imperative like the bunch of malarkey which just got shoved down our throats in stimulus no. 1? Unless there is no rush, there is no crisis, except the crisis in the quick run for POWAH!!
Obama's not in a full sprint to save us..... but to rule us.
K
Keenly
Guest
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Where did you come up with all this off of my statement?
And do you mean leftist ideals like most of it going to tax cuts and education? Here you go check it out: http://projects.nytimes.com/44th_president/stimulus
Nah, I don't either. But it does sound like a wonderful day.
medicineman
New Member
Here's a tip. Wanna buy a new collectable car for future resale? Try the new ford SHO twin turbo V6. Not only will this car appreciate in value, but you can have some screaming fun driving it in the interim. Pull up alongside a corvette and blow its doors off, all wheel drive makes this a stoplight screamer. A nondescript 4 door sedan that will spank most hotrods light to light and haul your kids and groceries around like a little pussycat. BTW, I'm A general motors fan mostly, the old ones and the newer corvettes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmtirTYFp7g
i'm riding with you.
purplekitty7772008
Well-Known Member
for a while, it helped...but the bailouts still failed.Because if they just collapsed in the middle of the mess, the people would not have had anytime to adjust. At least with the bailouts it gave people some safety for another 6 months or so to get their financial situation under control so that it wouldn't have been as devastating.
So that many months later (Now that the mess is starting to move behind us) the people that are losing their jobs won't be as devastating, and with unemployment and the new mortgage adjustment laws they can not be completely screwed. Add to that the 'no worker left behind' bills and people that are losing their jobs can get help to go back and get a 2 year degree to start their new life.
It was not so much that they cannot go bankrupt, because at some point it can be a good thing. But allowed time for everyone affected to make the needed changes and slow the crisis that peaked in March.
Theoretical timeline with no bailouts of GM/Chrysler: They fail in December, both going bankrupt and there are noone that is ready to buy the bankrupt company so those 250,000 people in the US lose their jobs. Instead of a very rapid turnover in bankruptcy court several months later.
Then the 12,000 (estimate gm had 6500 in '0dealerships in the US then cannot sell their junk and are forced to lay off most of their staff, so figure half the dealerships are fired, about another 300,000 (25 people per dealership).
Then that impacts every other industry that depends on those companies, which really is everyone. Parts dealers, truck companies, restaurants, clothes, on and on, everyone that has ever counted on those dollars of consumption from the auto workers/dealers or any direct business).
Then think about all the bankruptcies that would ensue, meaning even more strain on the banks, which were at the brink in March. So they see another 550k people (at least) out of work, figure a spike in bankruptcies send the recently bailedout banks even further down, possible that one fails, which freaks investors out, and they pull out their money from the banks. When we didn't have enough to continue to pump money into them so they start to collapse.
And then we are possibly in the depression again because the financial failure.
It is not that the Big three cannot fail. It was more about where it was at that time.