Squidbilly
Well-Known Member
That's why I wanted to bring it to everyone's attention- 100ppm in 3-4 days, that's not bad or unusual right?
why are my ppms going up now?
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Squidbilly
Well-Known Member
And yes, res temps are a bit high and pain to contorl sometimes, lol. It's the reason I switched to DTW and use a cooler for res now.
kmog33
Well-Known Member
Improper balance of nutrient as stated previously, means your plants are taking up more water than nutrient solution because it has more nutes than it needs. Could also be lockout from various causes. If it was me i would empty res and start over with a lower base ppm.
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BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
I didn't even look at his post. I assumed.
It is a common newbie mistake.
In fact, in my own grow, I don't even bother with checking the ph and PPM's anymore. Incuding when I mix my batches up, I always use the same Tablespoon and measure it out the same way every time. Every now and then I will stick my Hanna in there just to see.. and it's always the same... 5.85(or there a bouts) when I mix... I even go and and adjust my PH BEFORE I add nutes. Though I know people who will scream about this as well.. *yawn*.... There plants.. I don't care what they whine about, as long as they produce bud that gets me baked.
It all does the same thing for me no matter which way i do it.
When I put the plant under the lights, in the past I've checked on them from time to time. the PH and PPM's fluctuate , however, it goes through the nutes so fast(2-3 days) that I don't bother anymore... It's to time consuming, to much headache and it's not rocket science, no one is going to die... So, I let the plants do what they're going to do. They get a nute reset ever 2-3 days anyway.
Get it?
=)
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
I'm so with you on that
BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
The PH and PPM's will fluctuate over night as well as the lights go off and temps cool down.
Really, its more hassle than it's worth, unless you're growing on a HUGE LARGE scale in which you can incorporate the use of automatic PH and PPM adjusters that are on digital timers and feeders...
The plants for the most part can take the fluctuations. IS it ideal to feed them what they want at all times, well yes, of course it is, is it necessary to feed them what they want at all times?
NO!
We can only try to come as close as possible unless we're mega rich farmers and have the time effort and money to set up a vast complicated system.
Really, its more hassle than it's worth, unless you're growing on a HUGE LARGE scale in which you can incorporate the use of automatic PH and PPM adjusters that are on digital timers and feeders...
The plants for the most part can take the fluctuations. IS it ideal to feed them what they want at all times, well yes, of course it is, is it necessary to feed them what they want at all times?
NO!
We can only try to come as close as possible unless we're mega rich farmers and have the time effort and money to set up a vast complicated system.
cat of curiosity
Well-Known Member
also remember that if you're not using rh water at 7 ph, you are adding to your tds with every top off. the tiny climb the op is experiencing is nothing. too small to consider.
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BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
At first, I have to admit I was like "what the heck is he talking about?" then I reread it another 20 times, LOL!
It is a great point, and VERY valid and precisely why I do not just "add" to the reservoir, but let it run out and then make a completely new batch.
cat of curiosity
Well-Known Member
climbing ppm is easy to understand, and any hydroponic regimen will buffer to 6.0. the tiny climb is normal, and not worth thinking about. as for op's tds, i run near 3000ppm after two weeks of root growth. my water is 165ppm from the tap, 6.8ph.
been doing this for a while, and i'm way past the paranoia point...
cat of curiosity
Well-Known Member
and i meant ro water (reverse osmosis).
fucking keyboard, arthritis and dyslexia....
BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
Yeh I was wondering about that too, Sativied, I think it was, mentioned he is running at like 300ppm... he said it was easy to do based upon effiencieny..
He must have some really SMALL plants then.... Or he has plants that do not demand that much.....
I run General Hydro's 3 part series, I think it gradually climbs to 22-2800 by the end of flowering, at the beginning of flowering I think, but, can not recall specifically, that it is 1800ppm.
At seedling stage is 200-300 or something.. I gave up trying to keep track after the 2nd time around.
cat of curiosity
Well-Known Member
i also use gh3,cal/mag+, superthrive, an AN hammerhead (0-8-16). in veg i'm around 2300ppm, in flower 2900+... i grow indoor trees though, with root balls that will fill or flood a 5g bucket... average end height is 7'.
panhead
Well-Known Member
If your ppm raising to higher levels was the only issue i would have to agree that all is well & for you to top off the rez & call it a day , however i dont agree than your elevated ppm levels are caused from the plants drinking alone , the 1st red flag is your ph level dropping , in a properly mixed rez your ph levels should not swing more than .5 or so no matter how much the plants are drinking , red flag # 2 is why are the plants drinking enough water to elevate the ppm without eating at the same time , red flag # 3 is the low ppm your plants are being fed , with numbers so low the plants should be eating daily .
Having a good nutrient balance is the most important issue in maintaining a ph stable rez , i'd bet your nutes are either out of ballance , as in your overall npk value or that the nute mix your giving them is out of sync with the plants growth phase , as in feeding too much bloom nutes & not enough micro nutes .
Having a good nutrient balance is the most important issue in maintaining a ph stable rez , i'd bet your nutes are either out of ballance , as in your overall npk value or that the nute mix your giving them is out of sync with the plants growth phase , as in feeding too much bloom nutes & not enough micro nutes .
Silky Shagsalot
Well-Known Member
well, interesting, but i wonder. so if i put 2 tbsp. of kool-aid mix, into half the amount of water suggested, it'll still taste o.k.? hummm... so if i use the regular feed amount for my rez, but don't make the reg. water addition, it's still gonna be the same ppm, NOT! so the reverse should also be true. if i remove water, from a pre-mixed nute solution, the ppm won't change, NOT! i suppose the roots could cause a ph change, but i wonder how much? there's not a lot of waste coming from a plant anyways, especially through the roots. and i can't say i've ever heard of this causing huge ph swings, but you never know...
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
You fill your res with full strength. The plant "eats" some nutes and uses more water then nutrient.
You add back plain water to top the res off. Now why would the res ppm out as higher then when he started?
Isn't that what he asked. Why it's doing that???
Understand now?
I don't know where you got what you said, from what I said....?
"Just because the plant is using more water then nutrient does not mean that the nutrient would keep on rising as he added water to top off...."
maybe I should have said...
"Just because the plant is using more water then nutrient does not mean that the ppm would keep on rising as he added water to top off...."
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Silky Shagsalot
Well-Known Member
i was just responding, exchanging ideas/thoughts. i wasn't attacking you, lol. i'm pretty mellow...
although, you did say something i thought was interesting. about the roots leaving waste in the rez. i did some reading, and you're right. i wondered though, about the amount, and if it's an enough to make much difference.
although, you did say something i thought was interesting. about the roots leaving waste in the rez. i did some reading, and you're right. i wondered though, about the amount, and if it's an enough to make much difference.
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waterdawg
Well-Known Member
I dont get the 2000 ppm levels? I run around 650 ppm tops. How can there be such a variation in what plants can take? If I ran that kind of numbers I fear my plants would jump out if their pots and run into the lake lol. Am I missing something in all this? I run 550-650 and every 6-7 days near mid flower I change the res as the ph starts to drop. Its like clock work as it starts to drop. I ph to 6.1-2 and change at 5.7-.8.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
I don't grow plants for trying to grow the largest plants... I got 6 plants under 600w (400watt during transition), same yield (over 12 strains, about a pound+ per run) with 1100ppm (nearly all H&G additives), 680ppm (only AB) as I got with 450-480ppm (AB + little bit of GHE Bloom). Currently 340-350ppm, of which half is tap and I expect a similar yield. That's pushing it though, I never recommended someone run 300ppm. I'll probably aim for 450-500 next run. I unlike many others like to see with my own eyes rather than choose to be blind and continue doing something just because that's what I 've been doing so far.
I know it seems that that means I use a very low ppm, I've been on your side sort of speak, but really, the truth is most of you run unnecessary high ppms. Plenty of people who stick at 300-ish, but considering the typical "NO, THE WORLD IS FLAT!" responses it gets you don't hear many of them.
No need to take my word for it, simple enough to test isn't it... and that's exactly what I did. Efficient use of nutrients is one of the key benefits of hydroponics. Click pic journal in sig, if you dare
Root vs plant size ratio is a major factor. Larger plants with more roots transpire more water and take up more nutrients. In a recirculation system the root zone constantly changes and refreshes. Lower nutrients levels are easier on the roots and healthier roots take up nutrients much easier. And plants can store a large amount of nutrients as reserves. The high 1000+ ppm runs I've done included both way more N (which they will suck up until they get really really dark) and unnecessary additives (currently no bennies, vitamins, boosters, stims and other nonsense ingredients plant can't even take up).
As mentioned earlier in this thread, I don't necessarily use less nutrients over a week than you with 650 ppm for example, I just add a little bit of nutrients more often (every other day), which means my soup is more balanced (than adding all the nutes for a week and let 1 or more elements get taken up more than others) which in turn is essential for efficient nutrient uptake.
480ppm run, note the dates. More nutes (than necessary) does not equal faster vegging and does not equal more buds.
***Older post****
Wanted to see how low I could go, this is a 480 ppm run (0.5 scale, so less than 1EC), Cannalope Haze (which supposedly is C99)
Feb 20, just moved from small DWC boxes (under 3x18watt T8 ) and topped.
View attachment 3159327
Feb 24, fully recovered from transplant and about to take off
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27 Feb (3days and 2 hours after previous pic, replaced top right with a backup clone) Switched to 12/12 around this day.
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March 4: sexed
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March 14 (hempy test buckets removed, tubes moved to the front to cover everything with 6 instead of 9 plants) flowering:
View attachment 3159331 [/QUOTE]
View attachment 3137335 From supercropping and canopy control thread, where the grow was sort of logged: https://www.rollitup.org/t/supercropping-and-canopy-control.413359/page-62
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Sativied
Well-Known Member
There's nothing new about growing large quantity and quantity on normal (for most of you "low") ppms by the way. No longer active, but still good thread. Unfortunately all the albums/pics are missing.
The underlined part was pointed out a while ago by someone else too who had a similar or perhaps the same chart. There's a point of not return, or as I put it before: "enough nutrients" for max yield is a large range between "underfeeding" and "overfeeding", there's no benefit to staying on the high end of that range.Good to see this thread is still alive and full of good ideas and questions.
I will go into detail about nutrient concentrations because it seems to be an area which a lot of growers don't fully understand.
I have seen quite a lot of bad advice from experienced growers who advise to "increase the nutrient concentrations until you see tip burn and then back off slightly" I will try explain why this is bad advice.
Nutrient salts can cause harm to plants if they are in high enough concentration in water or soil. This effect is mainly indirect by pulling moisture out of roots and reducing the uptake of water and nutrients to affected plants. This is the cause of tip and edge burn of leaves, if the nutrient concentration was maintained, slow growth, nutrient deficiencies, wilting and eventual death of the plant would occur if the problem is not corrected.
This is the reason why, Water movement in plants is a factor of osmotic pressure and capillary action. Osmotic pressure is defined as water flowing through a permeable membrane in the direction of higher salt concentrations. Water will continue to flow in the direction of the highest salt concentration until the salts have been diluted to the point that the concentrations on both sides of the membrane are equal.
A good example of this is pouring salt on a slug or snail, the salt concentration outside the slug is highest, which causes the water from inside the slug's body to cross the skin membrane. The slug becomes dehydrated and dies.
For osmosis to occur, water must move from a more dilute (the nutrient solution) to a more concentrated compartment (the plant). If you were to water your plant with sea water the plant would wither and die as the salt water now extracts water from the plant instead of replenishing it. So basically high levels of salinity will lead to high concentrations of salt in the plant tissues which will severely damage metabolic processes.
here is a grow chart which will help explain why there is no advantage to feeding your plants high nutrient concentrations.
[missing]
notice on the chart that there is a deficient zone where the plant is not meeting its needs and growth is poor. A low zone where the plant is growing but lacks all the necessary nutrients to sustain good growth and yield.
Now the important part, you will notice if you look at the sufficient and high zones that there is no advantage to feeding your plants at higher concentrations than is needed. Notice also that growth and yield suffers sharply once the plant is over fertilised. If you feed your plant until it is toxic and showing signs of tip burn and you back off slightly you are still in the excess zone and your yields will suffer to some degree.
I have found that the sufficient zone for marijuana is in the range from an Ec of 1.0 to 1.6 I personally run in at an EC of approx 1.2 and never exceed 1.4
I hope that helps explain why I do what I do.
Heath
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
I've only been doing this for a couple of years but have kept pretty good records of what I've added so its pretty much the same every run. I've only done seed grows so a mix of strains and pretty much all of them start to show what I feel is stress when getting near the 700 range. Thats where the confusion lies. Not that I want or feel the need to raise the levels I run, just wondering if its me not maximizing the plants full potential.