Why are the poor, poor?

Why are the poor, poor?

  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .
Cut.Throat. said:
It's not the governments job to feed you. Or clothe you. Or provide you with healthcare.

That's every individual persons job.
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Ideally it's the family/community's job. Basic human social unit sizes are individual (1), band (about 12), and village (about 200). The current system subverts this human optimum by giving us two choices: individual (1) or state (too many). cn
 
Cut.Throat. said:
It's not the governments job to feed you. Or clothe you. Or provide you with healthcare.

That's every individual persons job.
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It's also not the governments job to raise food prices, clothes prices and medical costs (inflation) to a point where they become unreasonable.
 
cannabineer said:
Ideally it's the family/community's job. Basic human social unit sizes are individual (1), band (about 12), and village (about 200). The current system subverts this human optimum by giving us two choices: individual (1) or state (too many). cn
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so long as we live in the culture of the seventeen hundreds, bands and villiages can suffice. Fast forward to a 21st century society and culture and you find that the villiage is no longer able to support the needs let alone the wants of individuals. The villiage cannot afford an MRI or CT machine, they do not support the population needed to build super highways or the facilities to create and maintain super tankers and airports let along all of the other requirements we now have in order to maintain our culture. If we want to progress as a civilization we will need universities and centers of commerce that go far beyond villiages or even cities.
 
canndo said:
so long as we live in the culture of the seventeen hundreds, bands and villiages can suffice. Fast forward to a 21st century society and culture and you find that the villiage is no longer able to support the needs let alone the wants of individuals. The villiage cannot afford an MRI or CT machine, they do not support the population needed to build super highways or the facilities to create and maintain super tankers and airports let along all of the other requirements we now have in order to maintain our culture. If we want to progress as a civilization we will need universities and centers of commerce that go far beyond villiages or even cities.
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I'm not promoting Luddism. But for a healthier society we need to find some ways to promote squad- and village-sized units to which an individual can give allegiance and receive support. The "how" is beyond me however. I am also not removing the place of larger groups (cities, counties, states, big companies) which can indeed carry the costs of, say, that MRI or semiconductor fab. cn
 
Cut.Throat. said:
Don't need to. I work in a supermarket and sometimes I'm forced to cashier. Most times i take food stamps I see the person with a blackberry and nike jordans or whatever they're called these days.

Did you know you can buy cigarettes with food stamps? You do now.
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If some store is allowing people to buy cigarettes then that store is doing something illegal... and if you are FORCED to work as a cashier I think you should know the reason behind being poor first hand.
 
Carne Seca said:
It's called sanity.

Because what we have now is working SO well.... /sarcasm
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what we have now is still better than most but yes, most definitely, it could be improved.

The issues with central planning are way too vast to list but the philosophical argument I have against it is the individual is lost. When we can focus on what is best for the individual then society benefits, it's not the other way around. If we focus on individual needs instead of societal needs and how best to solve them then everything else takes care of itself.

How do I feed myself, how do I take care of my family, how do clothe myself are very valid concerns we all have. If the answer is to let someone else do it for you (or through our health and social services, let us show you how someone else can do it for you) the overall societal impact is negative, not positive. If instead we teach basic survival techniques in school like what compound interest does to you at the pawn shop, why eating crappy food and laying around makes you unhealthy, why spending more than you bring in is unsustainable etc etc.

Focusing on societal needs while ignoring individuals leads us to record high poverty and a nation of takers.
 
londonfog said:
If some store is allowing people to by cigarettes then that store is doing something illegal... and if you are FORCED to work as a cashier I think you should know the reason behind being poor first hand.
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Only reason i'm forced to cashier is when people call out sick. Also i work in a supermarket chain that is nationwide so no, nothing illegal about it.

Actually I'm wrong. Technically it's not food stamps. Its EBT. They give them money they're supposed to be using for rent and they use it on cigarettes and cell phone cards.

http://www.sunjournal.com/news/city...n-buy-booze-cigarettes-anything-legal/1153140
 
Cut.Throat. said:
Only reason i'm forced to cashier is when people call out sick. Also i work in a supermarket chain that is nationwide so no, nothing illegal about it.

Actually I'm wrong. Technically it's not food stamps. Its EBT. They give them money they're supposed to be using for rent and they use it on cigarettes and cell phone cards.

http://www.sunjournal.com/news/city...n-buy-booze-cigarettes-anything-legal/1153140
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Hell I knew you were wrong the minute you told the lie.. You can't buy cigarettes with food stamps...and again if you are FORCED to work as a cashier you should know what it is like to be poor.
 
londonfog said:
Hell I knew you were wrong the minute you told the lie.. You can't buy cigarettes with food stamps...and again if you are FORCED to work as a cashier you should know what it is like to be poor.
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Either way it's a government handout that needs to be taken away. And acquiring pieces of paper with ink on it isn't my life goal. Yes technically I'm poor. Buy ya know what? I'm ok with being poor.

If i can grow my own food. Produce my own electricity and collect and clean my own water, what use is money to me?

You're trying to push my buttons. And it's not going to work. Because i honestly don't care what anyone thinks about me.
 
Cut.Throat. said:
Either way it's a government handout that needs to be taken away. And acquiring pieces of paper with ink on it isn't my life goal. Yes technically I'm poor. Buy ya know what? I'm ok with being poor.

If i can grow my own food. Produce my own electricity and collect and clean my own water, what use is money to me?

You're trying to push my buttons. And it's not going to work. Because i honestly don't care what anyone thinks about me.
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That is a big IF.
 
Cut.Throat. said:
Like i said i already grow 80% my own food. I produce probably 60% of my electricity. And I clean/drink rain water.

Even on my basically minimum wage job i still have money left over.
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That's great for you, you aren't the average poor person. Tough to grow a garden in a housing project surrounded by concrete. If you're poor how did you afford the upfront cost to produce your own electricity?

Sounds like you own your property
 
abandonconflict said:
Don't worry, your job will be performed by a machine soon enough.
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I know it will. That's why I'm learning everything i can now. Me and the misses started hitting up tag sales and selling the stuff on ebay. We actually make a decent amount of money doing it.

I'm not worried about losing my job. I'm more worried about the coming zombie apocalypse. :lol:
 
Cut.Throat. said:
Either way it's a government handout that needs to be taken away. And acquiring pieces of paper with ink on it isn't my life goal. Yes technically I'm poor. Buy ya know what? I'm ok with being poor.

If i can grow my own food. Produce my own electricity and collect and clean my own water, what use is money to me?

You're trying to push my buttons. And it's not going to work. Because i honestly don't care what anyone thinks about me.
Click to expand...

Medical care, your use for money is prolonging your life or being in less pain or discomfort. While growing your own herbs may further that goal, those herbs aren't going to do the same as our modern medicine can - Pot, while it has some advantages, is not a cure all.

And never mind your computer and internet access, something you will have a tough time growing. Is your home paid for? how about the taxes on that home? travel at all? there are limits to self sufficiency.
 
canndo said:
Medical care, your use for money is prolonging your life or being in less pain or discomfort. While growing your own herbs may further that goal, those herbs aren't going to do the same as our modern medicine can - Pot, while it has some advantages, is not a cure all.

And never mind your computer and internet access, something you will have a tough time growing. Is your home paid for? how about the taxes on that home? travel at all? there are limits to self sufficiency.
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That is true, but on the other hand. If people choose to live on there own as far as growing food and or pot that is there choice. On the other hand, if you like nice things then you have to work for them..
 
knnthc93 said:
That is true, but on the other hand. If people choose to live on there own as far as growing food and or pot that is there choice. On the other hand, if you like nice things then you have to work for them..
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If they have the situtation in which to do that, fine, many don't. I grow my own food but again, there are limits, and I had to pay for the canner, I have to pay for the lids, I have to pay for the fuel to cook with (I don't think I will ever can over a wood stove). I am even capable of making my own biofuel, but there again, I need certain chemicals I can't make. This really isn't about nice things, it's about being able to deal with that lump on your wife's breast rather than having to let her die.
 
Cut.Throat. said:
Either way it's a government handout that needs to be taken away. And acquiring pieces of paper with ink on it isn't my life goal. Yes technically I'm poor. Buy ya know what? I'm ok with being poor.

If i can grow my own food. Produce my own electricity and collect and clean my own water, what use is money to me?

You're trying to push my buttons. And it's not going to work. Because i honestly don't care what anyone thinks about me.
Click to expand...



how do you pay property taxes? mortgage? or rent?..you can't trade fruits and vegetables for that...
 
Corso312 said:
how do you pay property taxes? mortgage? or rent?..you can't trade fruits and vegetables for that...
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I work a job. And actually you can trade those things. It's called the barter system.

I work part time. I get the free stuff off craigslist and resell it. I pick up scrap and sell it. I go to tag sales and sell the stuff on ebay.
 
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