Why Hydroponic chemical is worth more then Organic!

Mithrandir420 said:

As for bashing Subcool, well I didn't see what they said but the man knows how to grow, that's for sure. He knows his system so well that he can achieve fantastic results with it. He's been doing it so long he can teach others.

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Which is really fucking awesome of him. Personally that system and his genetics aren't for me, but a lot of people absolutely love it. He's one of the best around when it comes to breeding/growing for pure flavor.

I bet he fails miserably if he did it in hydro, though

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Probably, but out of a lack of interest. If he really wanted to I'll bet he could do it. You've got to be interested in it though.

His true talent lies in marketing though. That guy could sell ice to an eskimo. I have only tried a few of his genetics and they were alright. I would like to see him make more of an effort to stabilize his lines though. Too much pheno variety, IMO.

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100% truth. He sure is good at tracking down/mixing good tasting genetics though. Vortex, Ace of Spades, plush, etc, etc etc all quite yummy. I wouldn't personally grow them, but they taste great. A lot of people want just that.

I have heard that his genetics have great aroma and flavor, but can lack punch. When I have room I want to run some of his gear. But then I also want to run some other breeders gear, too. And I agree, if he wanted to he could kill it in hydro. As you said, lack of interest. But certainly not lack of skills.

Not Hating

But curious as to who and what age group was this study on?

I only ask and not knowing how you did the study:
you would need a study of all age groups to prove that..
You would also have to take that study of all age groups with different locations..someone in the tropics..North...south you get my drift
Weather and other issues has a major factor in how the body adjusts.
Just like if someone has an organic diet but at the time dealing with some kind of virus will change the study.
So like i said i am not hating but i am always curious as to how studies are done pertaining to MMJ.

hexthat said:

Get really high and ready for some real talk for once. Organic is great everything should be Organic. Why do I feel Hydro bud is worth more then Organic then? Organic fertilizers, soil, ect. are not great they are really high in arsenic and other heavy metals. Arsenic can be found in nature yet it kills most life, do I feel smoking it is better then say bud grown with General Hydroponics? Honestly, I would rather smoke GH. Weed shouldn't be grow or sprayed with Chemicals or Organics that are toxic or neurotoxins in any way, and should be priced accordingly in a higher manner. Monopotassium phosphate, dipotassium phosphate, ect. I stay far from.

P.S fluorine is natural, yet I stay far from it. I will not use fluoride tooth paste.

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I would love to see your Arsenic ppm. I guarantee its like .000006 that's not toxic. O, and when you burn your herbs you only inhale like 10/20 % off psychoactive meds. And a torch or liter is not hot enough to turn heavy metals into a smoke-able product. Your on a goose chase!

But, I do like heavy metal music.

"Arsenic is immediately dangerous to life or health at 5 mg m[SUP]-3[/SUP].

Our bodies do not readily absorb the element itself, hence pure arsenic is much less dangerous than As[SUP](III)[/SUP] compounds such as AsH[SUB]3[/SUB] and As[SUB]2[/SUB]O[SUB]3[/SUB] which are absorbed easily and are carcinogenic with high toxicity. "


"Despite its potential toxicity, arsenic is also an essential element, necessary to our physiology. A level of 0.00001% is needed for growth and for a healthy nervous system."

It appears overreacting is not limited to green types.

This thread is ridiculous, honestly. So many people bashing organic growers? And how hydro chemicals are better for you. First lets just know that cannabis cultivation/sale is the most lucrative agricultural crop in the word. We have finally passed the poppy's and cocoa leaves.

Second, how many of you have actually grown both ways? I've been growing goin on 10 years now and have used damn near every system type, nutrients, lights etc. Unless you understand organic growing (not what you read about it) you're not qualified to speak of it.

Personally, I find organic cultivation to be extremely difficult to master and easy to fuck up. Its why most people will not jump into that realm. A damn monkey can run a ebb n flow grow or a drip system. If you can read and have any common sense, you can grow hydroponically. Not knocking it at all, I've seen some really space aged aero systems maximizing science to stimulate growth.

My contention is why would you ever want to put a man made chemical into your body purposely? I spent 7.5 years working for Chipotle (operations, multi unit mgmt, and lastly quality assurance) the last two I had the opportunity to travel the states and canada looking for NATURAL and sustainable ingredients. I've witnesses first hand thw differwnce between natural and organic and also chemically rraised animals and gmo veggies. Even in vegetables their is a taste difference. My experience with this company had led to an all natural lifestyle. I raise my own livestock and garden in the season and can and store my goods for winter months and I only grow pot in a natural way...its the way it was intended to grow. We spent so much money trying to mimic nature indoors but then grow chemically??

I believe in simplicity in its whole. I mix my own verson of a subcool supwrsoil and just add water (rain water at that ) and have great results but it has taken me time to master this style, its not easy by any means...my good friend grows in a room that's cost him 5-6k to build and god only knows what to run and maintain. He grows witth science and yields on average "40-50 grams more per squared meter than me, but I run perpetual and harvest more frequently and thus always have fresh bud available. He alwats tells me that mine tastes better but personally I don't eally aee it, taste is intangible...


Basically, I guess people why get so damn bitter? Yo each thwir own and smoke and be merry! Marijuana is an herbal remwdy that signifies peace and clarity so why so much negatively and name calling and passing judgent? If you're not e

Go away. You grow in shit.

Its people like you, high kite that make RIU a pissing contest between people and give ganja a bad name. Try not to judge, ridicule, or belitttle people. I ddo grow in a soil that contains "shit" from varius organisms. The funny thing is, if you eat, you eat food grown in shit. happy tokin man, stay simple minded.

danknuggs419 said:

Its people like you, high kite that make RIU a pissing contest between people and give ganja a bad name. Try not to judge, ridicule, or belitttle people. I ddo grow in a soil that contains "shit" from varius organisms. The funny thing is, if you eat, you eat food grown in shit. happy tokin man, stay simple minded.

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danknuggs419 said:

This thread is ridiculous, honestly. So many people bashing organic growers? And how hydro chemicals are better for you.

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I'm not sure if hydro nuts are better for you or not, but they are much more efficient for indoor growing. That I'm sure of.

Second, how many of you have actually grown both ways?

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I do both.

I've been growing goin on 10 years now and have used damn near every system type, nutrients, lights etc. Unless you understand organic growing (not what you read about it) you're not qualified to speak of it.

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I successfully grow organics every year. I have a firm grasp on the basics and what I don't understand I have a professional that I consult with. I feel qualified to have an opinion on both. I can say with out a doubt in my mind hydro is just better when it comes to indoor growing.

Personally, I find organic cultivation to be extremely difficult to master and easy to fuck up.

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It's extremely forgiving in comparison with hydro.

Its why most people will not jump into that realm. A damn monkey can run a ebb n flow grow or a drip system. If you can read and have any common sense, you can grow hydroponically. Not knocking it at all, I've seen some really space aged aero systems maximizing science to stimulate growth.

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I've run aero too. It's very efficient but extremely sensitive and it's difficult to keep your ph in check. It's awesome, but you've got to give it a lot more attention than hydro. Small mistakes become apparent very quickly and if you don't correct them ASAP, it'll fuck up the whole crop.

My contention is why would you ever want to put a man made chemical into your body purposely?

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Ahhh. The assumption that everything natural is automatically good for you. Can I interest you in a poison oak salad with a cup of rattlesnake venom? Natural doesn't always = healthy.

I spent 7.5 years working for Chipotle (operations, multi unit mgmt, and lastly quality assurance) the last two I had the opportunity to travel the states and canada looking for NATURAL and sustainable ingredients. I've witnesses first hand thw differwnce between natural and organic and also chemically rraised animals and gmo veggies. Even in vegetables their is a taste difference. My experience with this company had led to an all natural lifestyle.

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Do you really not understand the difference between growing hydro and growing GMO crops? Those aren't the same things. You could run GMO plants organically. Also GMO cannabis isn't a real thing as far as I'm aware.

I'm not interested in that natural lifestyle stuff. I want the best bud possible in the largest quantity possible. Organics simply can not compete with hydro on any level. And no, it doesn't automatically taste better because it's grown organically. Properly grown hydro tastes just as good.

I raise my own livestock and garden in the season and can and store my goods for winter months and I only grow pot in a natural way...its the way it was intended to grow. We spent so much money trying to mimic nature indoors but then grow chemically??

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Hydro growing isn't intended to mimic nature, it's intended to improve on nature. If you want to grow cannabis the way nature intended, then just throw a bunch of seeds outside and let them grow on their own, then enjoy the schwaggy seeded ditch weed that comes up a few months later.

You're growing strains that have been heavily selectively bred and then making sure they grow seedless. That doesn't happen in nature without human intervention. Hydro is just an extension of that human intervention.

I believe in simplicity in its whole. I mix my own verson of a subcool supwrsoil and just add water (rain water at that ) and have great results but it has taken me time to master this style, its not easy by any means...

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Supersoil very rarely occurs on it's own in nature. Just saying...

my good friend grows in a room that's cost him 5-6k to build and god only knows what to run and maintain. He grows witth science and yields on average "40-50 grams more per squared meter than me, but I run perpetual and harvest more frequently and thus always have fresh bud available. He alwats tells me that mine tastes better but personally I don't eally aee it, taste is intangible...

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So tell your friend to flush more and his bud will taste just as good, and he'll have more of it.

Dan, you've broke down a couple things I said too literally. The comment involving gmo's was there to elaborate difference. I've never heard anyone say they were trying to improve on nature? And there's also a difference in throwing bagseeds outside than growing in a natural way. Its to each their own really, not really arguing but there are not many (like you) that bash organics with a solid experience with it. Anyone can throw a seed in dirt and give it water and light. Organic growing is much more complex in ways to provide nutes for your soils. Outside of aero grows, anyone can achieve a solid hydro grow, Ias for your flushing comment. That's a myth of myths. Like Nessie herself. I've done multiple studies along with fellow growers and flushing your plants for 1-2 weeks or however someone will say is a myth and hurts them unless they were being pushed hard. Get a genetic botany book and read about how nutes are stored in cellular tissue and you'll see that the only reason to flush is the facf you pushed too many nutrients to the plant anyways, in turn may create larger buds but at same thc/cbd levels, you just lost potency and taste as its being distributed throughout a larger area. I don't grow for $ anymore, strictly quity and imo nothing can touch a dialed in organic set up indoor or outdoor.

danknuggs419 said:

I've never heard anyone say they were trying to improve on nature?

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Maybe people don't say that, but that's what they are doing. I'm running 1800 ppm Co2. That is significantly better than what nature offers.

Also I live in a house instead of a cave, get running water from a well, and we all manipulate the flow of electrons to have indoor lighting and things like computers. If you want to live a "natural lifestyle", what are you doing typing on a computer? Shouldn't you be foraging for berries right now?

My point being that our entire existence revolves around improving on improving on nature. Going down to a hydro store and buying a bag of bat guano doesn't mean you're living a natural lifestyle.

And there's also a difference in throwing bagseeds outside than growing in a natural way.

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Not really, no. Selectively bred sensi doesn't happen very often in nature.

Its to each their own really, not really arguing but there are not many (like you) that bash organics with a solid experience with it.

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Not really. A lot of people who do organics admit it can't compete with hydro. Organics has it's place. That place is outside. For indoor growing organics is a joke. It's sacrificing yield to get a less desirable product.

Anyone can throw a seed in dirt and give it water and light. Organic growing is much more complex in ways to provide nutes for your soils. Outside of aero grows, anyone can achieve a solid hydro grow, Ias for your flushing comment. That's a myth of myths.

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No it is definitely not. Maybe you haven't had properly grown hydro before, but it is indeed possible to produce hydro that tastes just as good as organics. I do it all the time as do a lot of people. The key is instead of pushing ppm's you give the plant exactly what it needs and then flush well. If you do that you're hydro will taste just as good as organics but will be much more dense, look better, and generally be a little stronger.

I've done multiple studies along with fellow growers and flushing your plants for 1-2 weeks or however someone will say is a myth and hurts them unless they were being pushed hard.

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Someone might say that, but they're wrong.

Get a genetic botany book and read about how nutes are stored in cellular tissue and you'll see that the only reason to flush is the facf you pushed too many nutrients to the plant anyways, in turn may create larger buds but at same thc/cbd levels, you just lost potency and taste as its being distributed throughout a larger area. I don't grow for $ anymore, strictly quity and imo nothing can touch a dialed in organic set up indoor or outdoor.

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That's just all around false in every way.

Dan, the fact you're extremely condescensing about a natural lifestyle. I never said I was shootings for the 1500s way of life. I've done the corporate lifestyle, made my $ and business experience gained and have successfully transferred it into a business of my own. I'm not disputing hydro grows or knocking them either, hydro grows paid for a master's degree and more. It does yield more in most cases its a great commercial system and I've skoked some really great gear from them.

Second, I have a sub-minor in phytoanatomy. So ill break down my OPINION of flushing and also I've done side by sides, full grows. Flushed for 2 weeks, 1 week. 36 hrs etc. Flushed with RO watwr, tap water etc...nutrient are absorbed thru the root stele and then from there enter into the xlyem and phloem tissues of the plant which transport the nutrients to different places depending on phase of plants cycle. Now, these tissues have ability to store enough food for a significant amount of time which is why I hear people say flush, it'll make them use the stored nutes and then they'll be gone. Wrong, a plant feeds like ahuman, when its hungry it eats. Now starve yourself for two weeks of the essential nutrients you need? You wont burn any fat after the 2-3rd day once your in survival mode. Plants will regress, those nutes will be held onto inaide the tissues and rationed...how do you try to promote tarving a plant of its essential foods?

Next you'll say chlorine is bad don't use tap water? Liebigs law of the minimum, its one of the 17 essentials...

I'm really not trying to banter back n forth. We each have different opinions, its just pot. But there's really no need to judge someone on choosing to a more natural way of life. Just because it's different doesn't make it wrong, and remember that just bc its what you think, doesn't make it right...happy tokin RIU

danknuggs419 said:

I'm really not trying to banter back n forth.

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Yes, I'm sure you'd rather people not dispute what you say.

We each have different opinions, its just pot. But there's really no need to judge someone on choosing to a more natural way of life. Just because it's different doesn't make it wrong, and remember that just bc its what you think, doesn't make it right...happy tokin RIU

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You had no problem stating organics is superior, but it's wrong to state the opposite? Sorry, no.

I dispute how much more natural a way of life that is. It's not like you're harvesting these nutrients from nature, you're just choosing to buy a different product on a store shelf. The idea that it's "better" because it's "natural" rings hollow with me. Better = more efficient. Hydro nutrients are more efficient for indoor growing.

Either way you can get the nutrients the plant requires, the difference is with hydro you have greater control over what the plant takes in and when. A soilless medium is a clean slate. Organic soil is not. In veg I can make a ton of nitrogen available to the plant, then flip to ou12-12 and wash the slate clean again, removing the nitrogen and boosting the pk levels instead. Organics is more like feeding your plants with only a one part nutrient system. You've got one type of nutrients made available to your plant for the whole cycle and that's it. No control.

Bottom line is this, with hydro you get the same quality, better looking buds, and a lot more of them. It's more efficient with no loss in quality IF done correctly. It's simply a better way to grow indoors.

danknuggs419 said:

...Wrong, a plant feeds like ahuman, when its hungry it eats. Now starve yourself for two weeks of the essential nutrients you need? You wont burn any fat after the 2-3rd day once your in survival mode. Plants will regress, ...

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Flushing is needed IMO

hexthat said:

Flushing is needed IMO

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I don't care what anyone says, properly flushed bud tastes better. I think he got a hold of some bad information if he thinks flushing your plants beyond 2-3 days isn't helpful. It would explain why he thinks hydro doesn't taste that good if he was only flushing it for a couple days.

High kite, +rep, great post..

And dan, outside of epson salt, I haven't bought anything off a store shelf or from a chain store in last two years. Albeit some organic/veganic growers use premade nutes, I do not. My organic soil comes sourced locally from a nursery, I have 3 different compost piles, 4 warm farms to harvest castings (each is fed different foods to promote different levels of minerals and nutrients) I burn wood to head one of my garages and harvest my own wood ash, my lime is mined and powdered for me by a local quarry, a friend in NC harvests seaweed and kelp and ships it to me. My alfalfa and soy meals are also sourced locally, both from organic farmers, and I do the cure and meal process myself. Just like you can, I can control npk during growth stages. I keep my soil miss a cooler than most at first and can up nitrogen levels at anytime using liquid nettle tea and like wise with pk with kelp, alfalfa meal, ans vermiconpost. It seems you don't fully understand true organic/veganic cultivation. Its meant to be hands on, to regulate, and to know where everything is sourced. Ill never knock hydro for being a yielder, it served me great for 7+years and grew great gear. Bud nothing compared to what I grow now and indoor. Ill sacrafice a 10% yield as I'm a "cannasseur" not a commercial grower nowadays. Thisis my opinion from experience. Not everyone goes to a hydro store and buys bottled nutes

I see Dan Kone saying that organics works great outdoors and that organics has it's place. I see the organic people saying hydro only gives higher yields and that organics is superior in every other way. Be flexible, people.

To say that I cannot produce herb that tastes and smells and smokes as well as organic is incorrect. I go to the hydro store and buy bottled nutes. And people who sample a ton of different herb tell me that my Blue Dream is the best BD they ever had. Why? Because I understand my system, including my nutrients, as well as my plants. (That I have a fucking outstanding cut doesn't hurt either. ) Choose whatever method you want. What truly great herb comes down to is the grower, not the system.

Mithrandir420 said:

I see Dan Kone saying that organics works great outdoors and that organics has it's place. I see the organic people saying hydro only gives higher yields and that organics is superior in every other way. Be flexible, people.

To say that I cannot produce herb that tastes and smells and smokes as well as organic is incorrect. I go to the hydro store and buy bottled nutes. And people who sample a ton of different herb tell me that my Blue Dream is the best BD they ever had. Why? Because I understand my system, including my nutrients, as well as my plants. (That I have a fucking outstanding cut doesn't hurt either. ) Choose whatever method you want. What truly great herb comes down to is the grower, not the system.

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genetics then environment to exploit those genetics that is what makes the grower great IMO