Why spend $$$ on a flowering lamp if you have a $ veg lamp?

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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
According to the chart Rahz likes to post, plants produce photosynthesis more efficiently at a lower ppfd.

This means that if you keep DLI constant, it's more efficient to use lower ppfd for more time than higher ppfd for less time.

Intuitively, this means that 24 hours is the best way to maximize how efficient the plant is at producing photosynthesis. It's also cheaper to build a lamp for 24 to get that DLI. 24 hours has so many advantages in its favor.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Prawn Connery said:
4th Assumption - the cost of LED and drivers is linear. It is not. The best value is in buying the biggest lights and drivers (hint: flowering lights)
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This part I'll agree with. If you have a small veg area like most growers, you'll be getting a 90% efficient driver instead of a 94% efficient one.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Prawn Connery said:
3rd Assumption - everyone has a separate veg chamber and doesn't veg and flower under the same light
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This assumption is also a given. What you're saying is true, yet irrelevant. There are people who ONLY have veg areas to flower giants outside. If you only have 1 lamp, then my argument clearly doesn't apply to you. My argument only applies IF you have a crappy veg light.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
Just ordered nice new ge t-5 tubes for my veg lamps. 1000 bulbs had them for under $3 each.

Just sayin’
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Okay I'll get to your argument now. You're saying that in michigan, you need the heat anyway so efficiency isn't a problem, right?

So why would you be upgrading your flowering from HPS to LED? I think you're missing the point. The argument only applies if you're looking to upgrade flowering to LED before veg. You're not looking to upgrade either.
 
CannaBruh

CannaBruh

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
Okay I'll get to your argument now. You're saying that in michigan, you need the heat anyway so efficiency isn't a problem, right?

So why would you be upgrading your flowering from HPS to LED? I think you're missing the point.
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How much room warming are T5s really providing? LEDs provide some warmth, increase the current if you need more :D
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
Okay I'll get to your argument now. You're saying that in michigan, you need the heat anyway so efficiency isn't a problem, right?

So why would you be upgrading your flowering from HPS to LED? I think you're missing the point. The argument only applies if you're looking to upgrade flowering to LED before veg. You're not looking to upgrade either.
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Im just messin’ with ya bud. I see your point. But i also see the point in upgrading flower first and using the profit to upgrade veg later.

And I just upgraded. Solis tek 600w ballasts were half price shipped at growers house for black friday. Tested to have 15% more output than the galaxy’s I have run for 4 years. Lol.

I cleaned the hell out of my blockbuster reflectors too and got new bulbs.

And i just got a 4x8 gorilla tent to move the flower room to the basement while I work on the house and take back the spare rooms for living area. The reflective mylar will further increase my light upgrade. :-)


Cmon’ there isnt only one answer to these things.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
CannaBruh said:
How much room warming are T5s really providing? LEDs provide some warmth, increase the current if you need more :D
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A direct replacement is available for my t-5 lamp now with led bars instead of flourescent tubes. But it is 90 watts in the same space as the 200 i run now. I would need to likely more than double that to retain heat. I am at a minimum without added heat now. I dont want or need more watts for what i do.

Wont have to worry about it for another 18 months now.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
Why bother with LED at all? If you have a 600W HPS, why not upgrade it to a thousand watter and call it a day? (probably what I'd do in this case)
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I am not bothering with led. I counted it out for veg at this time and bought bulbs instead but was going to upgrade veg first.

And my ceilings are too low for 1000’s or 600de.

I add a 315 cmh in winter on my present room with the 2 600’s for a couple more plants in rotation but will set up the tent initially with all 3 lamps. Should be pretty great for yield and quality for the space.
 
Old Thcool

Old Thcool

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
Why bother with LED at all? If you have a 600W HPS, why not upgrade it to a thousand watter and call it a day? (probably what I'd do in this case)
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I thought of doing that, but the merits of High end LED outweigh the heat and lack of spectrum in a single gas lamp. Gas is not particularly efficient, and now that LED has caught up or in some cases surpassed gas lights I saw no reason to even look any further. Plus a friend of mine had a 4x4 growing, almost ready to crop out and the bulb burst all over his buds! He said it did it all by itself? I said are you sure you didn't spray any top dressing on it? He replied no. Can't call him a liar ...
 
Old Thcool

Old Thcool

Well-Known Member
Cx2H said:
Greenhouse with free sun is good. Erratic clouds and pests not good. I still like free sun :-)
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Yeah pest can be an issue but nature usually deals with that. In my area sun is pretty much a sure thing. This area is very sunny, so much so that shade clothe is used on some crops. The poly I use is special woven opaque stuff from Northern greenhouse supply. They also sell blackout covers for those that don't wish to sundial their plants. I can carry a plant all the way through October with decent weather.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Old Thcool said:
I thought of doing that, but the merits of High end LED outweigh the heat and lack of spectrum in a single gas lamp. Gas is not particularly efficient, and now that LED has caught up or in some cases surpassed gas lights I saw no reason to even look any further. Plus a friend of mine had a 4x4 growing, almost ready to crop out and the bulb burst all over his buds! He said it did it all by itself? I said are you sure you didn't spray any top dressing on it? He replied no. Can't call him a liar ...
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This makes sense, unless you're using T5/T8/T12 or CFL, or even an amazon blurple for veg, then it just seems like a contradiction to act like you care about efficiency.
 
Old Thcool

Old Thcool

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
This makes sense, unless you're using T5/T8/T12 or CFL, or even an amazon blurple for veg, then it just seems like a contradiction to act like you care about efficiency.
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I like the ability to dial down the output on this light and save on power but still get good growth. In addition, they are nicer to work under as you can make it cloudy while in the room sorta.
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
how so? cannabis is a C3 plant and doesn't need a dark period during veg.

any time you don't have lights on, you aren't photosynthesizing. they only stretch during the dark period.

and you get much tighter node spacing with 24/0 and all in all, a shorter veg time. and it's easier to keep temps/RH constant too.
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Photooxidation. To avoid oxidative stress, C3 plants photorespirate, whereby RuBP is oxidised and regenerated using ATP (stored energy). C3 plants don't need a dark period to photorespirate, but it interrupts photosynthesis, uses stored energy, and the continuous light adds even more stress, which perpetuates the cycle.

A brief dark period forces photorespiration while the lights are off and doesn't continue to add light energy to the equation.

As I mentioned earlier, of all the lighting cycles I've tried, 11/1 gave the fastest growth. In fact, I would dispute that 24/0 results in faster growth, shorter veg times and tighter node spacing, as in my experience that is not the case.
 
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