Will SCOTUS strike down affirmative action

hanimmal said:

Yeah this court is trying to pretend like it is a good time to end all the tools we as a society have developed 220 years of devastation. And it is not.

I agree that bigotry has slid out from under the rock it was hiding from, but I am not so sure it is actually a bigger problem than before. We are still better than at any other point in not so near history (percentage of actual racism as a number of people and degree of it).

I would rather be your kids today than ever before in American history man. It might not seem like it, because of the extremely powerful amplifier of everything horrible that the internet is bringing to us 24/7, and school shootings, and the radicalized domestic terrorists being triggered by the very sophisticated attack being conducted on us to the benefit of the Republican Party. God, what was I saying.. Oh yeah.

But it is still far better than it was as recently as the 90's. And this is not to say it is not bad in those rare instances that it becomes more than just the good old purse clutch, you are right to keep you and your families' heads on swivels.

God, and all these idiots with guns thinking they are bringing the revolution.

lol never-mind man, sometimes worrying is the right thing to do. But I still have hope, even if the Republicans win some chambers in this election, if they screw us by dragging down our economy by shutting down the government (again), they will pay in 2024. So we shall see.

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I agree the media and the internet live off of creating fear over as you said amplifying it. But there is one point I disagree with you on. I think the democrats are just as guilty of amplifying that fear as the republicans. I know I will probably here that blaming both sides is a non starter but that is truly how I feel. I am in situation where I see both sides of the argument play it in everyday life. We are currently dealing with a situation in the school where one of my grandkids attends school. Some of the kids are calling my grandchild half breed and also using the n word toward them and the teacher is being complicit by not addressing the situation. So now me and my son have to meet with the school superintendent tomorrow to try and stop the bs.

Skillcraft said:

I agree the media and the internet live off of creating fear over as you said amplifying it. But there is one point I disagree with you on. I think the democrats are just as guilty of amplifying that fear as the republicans. I know I will probably here that blaming both sides is a non starter but that is truly how I feel. I am in situation where I see both sides of the argument play it in everyday life. We are currently dealing with a situation in the school where one of my grandkids attends school. Some of the kids are calling my grandchild half breed and also using the n word toward them and the teacher is being complicit by not addressing the situation. So now me and my son have to meet with the school superintendent tomorrow to try and stop the bs.

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I would be fascinated to see the data that suggest Democrats are fearmongering on the basis of dishonesty as much as Republicans.

Skillcraft said:

I agree the media and the internet live off of creating fear over as you said amplifying it. But there is one point I disagree with you on. I think the democrats are just as guilty of amplifying that fear as the republicans. I know I will probably here that blaming both sides is a non starter but that is truly how I feel.

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Actually I think it might be one and a partial nitpick.

'Media' is all encompassing, if you mean 'news', I would recommend AP news, it is nonpartisan and is highly accurate, free, and not hate-mongering click bait.

And yeah I disagree strongly with the what you went on to correctly call 'both sides-ism'.

Skillcraft said:

I am in situation where I see both sides of the argument play it in everyday life.

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Without knowing more, I would point out that it might be worth really paying close attention to all of what the Democratic leaders are saying and not what propagandists are spamming into relevance.

I don't question that shit happens in real life all the time, but right now it is impossible to know what you have 'seen' that you affiliate with a political party. That shit is being programmed HARD on a individual basis to try like hell to nudge people into either being a full on MAGA, and if they can't, to push them into thinking that the Democratic Party is just as bad. But they are not. It doesn't mean that the humans inside those parties can't be idiots and do stupid shit, or just not understand why they are wrong in that moment and get just as triggered into becoming a Karen as the next person voting for Trump can get (even if less likely on a per-capita basis). Because everyone is under constant attack to drive them as crazy as possible.

The trick is, even though they can be attacking people using money from right wing propagandist donors, the trolls can switch up what they pretend to be dependent on the audience they are cat fishing. Making 'the left' look like assholes.

Skillcraft said:

We are currently dealing with a situation in the school where one of my grandkids attends school. Some of the kids are calling my grandchild half breed and also using the n word toward them and the teacher is being complicit by not addressing the situation. So now me and my son have to meet with the school superintendent tomorrow to try and stop the bs.

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That really sucks, and I am sorry your kids are going through this. And I wish you the best in your meeting.

I just am not sure how that is a knock against Democrats though (or am I missing something)?

hanimmal said:

Actually I think it might be one and a partial nitpick.

'Media' is all encompassing, if you mean 'news', I would recommend AP news, it is nonpartisan and is highly accurate, free, and not hate-mongering click bait.

And yeah I disagree strongly with the what you went on to correctly call 'both sides-ism'.

Without knowing more, I would point out that it might be worth really paying close attention to all of what the Democratic leaders are saying and not what propagandists are spamming into relevance.

I don't question that shit happens in real life all the time, but right now it is impossible to know what you have 'seen' that you affiliate with a political party. That shit is being programmed HARD on a individual basis to try like hell to nudge people into either being a full on MAGA, and if they can't, to push them into thinking that the Democratic Party is just as bad. But they are not. It doesn't mean that the humans inside those parties can't be idiots and do stupid shit, or just not understand why they are wrong in that moment and get just as triggered into becoming a Karen as the next person voting for Trump can get (even if less likely on a per-capita basis). Because everyone is under constant attack to drive them as crazy as possible.

The trick is, even though they can be attacking people using money from right wing propagandist donors, the trolls can switch up what they pretend to be dependent on the audience they are cat fishing. Making 'the left' look like assholes.


That really sucks, and I am sorry your kids are going through this. And I wish you the best in your meeting.

I just am not sure how that is a knock against Democrats though (or am I missing something)?

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I was not knocking the Democrats when I talked about what my grandchild is dealing with at school. I was just pointing out that even today racism and bigotry exist and showing what I am dealing with as a grandparent in real life. If it was a knock toward anyone it would have been against the school district and the teacher. Besides I live in a Republican controlled state that is deep red.

Skillcraft said:

We are currently dealing with a situation in the school where one of my grandkids attends school. Some of the kids are calling my grandchild half breed and also using the n word toward them and the teacher is being complicit by not addressing the situation. So now me and my son have to meet with the school superintendent tomorrow to try and stop the bs.

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sorry to hear this mate, should have seen it in the 70's when i was a kid. Next time that happens tell your grandchildren to tape in on they're phone so they can show the principle ie councelor...the more they do it, the more action you can take overall.....

Skillcraft said:

I was not knocking the Democrats when I talked about what my grandchild is dealing with at school. I was just pointing out that even today racism and bigotry exist and showing what I am dealing with as a grandparent in real life. If it was a knock toward anyone it would have been against the school district and the teacher. Besides I live in a Republican controlled state that is deep red.

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I see, yeah it is alive and kicking that is for sure. I can't even imagine what it is like to be a kid in today's environment enabling the worst in people, and everything since the pandemic just accelerating it.

I reread your post and I think I might just ask a question on this highlighted part.

Skillcraft said:

I agree the media and the internet live off of creating fear over as you said amplifying it. But there is one point I disagree with you on. I think the democrats are just as guilty of amplifying that fear as the republicans. I know I will probably here that blaming both sides is a non starter but that is truly how I feel. I am in situation where I see both sides of the argument play it in everyday life. We are currently dealing with a situation in the school where one of my grandkids attends school. Some of the kids are calling my grandchild half breed and also using the n word toward them and the teacher is being complicit by not addressing the situation. So now me and my son have to meet with the school superintendent tomorrow to try and stop the bs.

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I would suggest really taking the time and thinking about the politicians you think are amplifying fear that are Democrats, and what it is that they are pushing.

And then, is it 1. a false narrative that is being spammed into 'something I saw' programming.

or 2. selectively edited click bait, and if that is the case, have you taken the time to actually listen to the original speech/conversation and draw your own opinion on it.

or 3. Actually true, and something that should be concerning (ie Russia attacking our citizens online, that the Republicans are actively using this to cement their ability to maintain power to keep the mega rich from paying taxes. or whatever else).

And if 2, I am willing to do the same if you point it out.

hanimmal said:

I see, yeah it is alive and kicking that is for sure. I can't even imagine what it is like to be a kid in today's environment enabling the worst in people, and everything since the pandemic just accelerating it.

I reread your post and I think I might just ask a question on this highlighted part.

I would suggest really taking the time and thinking about the politicians you think are amplifying fear that are Democrats, and what it is that they are pushing.

And then, is it 1. a false narrative that is being spammed into 'something I saw' programming.

or 2. selectively edited click bait, and if that is the case, have you taken the time to actually listen to the original speech/conversation and draw your own opinion on it.

or 3. Actually true, and something that should be concerning (ie Russia attacking our citizens online, that the Republicans are actively using this to cement their ability to maintain power to keep the mega rich from paying taxes. or whatever else).

And if 2, I am willing to do the same if you point it out.

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Thank you for taking the time to articulate what I was struggling to say.

i've often wondered exactly when it is in a kid's life that their parent's stupidity overcomes their own experiences.
kids have been going to integrated schools for generations, they've grown up knowing each other, being friends with each other, being lab partners, being on the same athletic teams, eating lunch together...if that was just left alone, in a few generations, there wouldn't be any racism. parents fuck all of it up, they subvert the evidence of their own children's eye, their own children's experiences. those kids either believe those lies, or they realize their own parents are racist liars...neither thing is something a kid should have to deal with.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

i've often wondered exactly when it is in a kid's life that their parent's stupidity overcomes their own experiences.
kids have been going to integrated schools for generations, they've grown up knowing each other, being friends with each other, being lab partners, being on the same athletic teams, eating lunch together...if that was just left alone, in a few generations, there wouldn't be any racism. parents fuck all of it up, they subvert the evidence of their own children's eye, their own children's experiences. those kids either believe those lies, or they realize their own parents are racist liars...neither thing is something a kid should have to deal with.

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I agree totally. The kids had to learn it somewhere. Sometimes I have been so mad at the shit my grandchild is dealing with that I have wanted to go find the perpetrators parents and just kick the living shit out of them. But I am not sure if that is where they learned it. But children do not automatically hate and discriminate. They have to be taught that from someone.

hanimmal said:

I see, yeah it is alive and kicking that is for sure. I can't even imagine what it is like to be a kid in today's environment enabling the worst in people, and everything since the pandemic just accelerating it.

I reread your post and I think I might just ask a question on this highlighted part.

I would suggest really taking the time and thinking about the politicians you think are amplifying fear that are Democrats, and what it is that they are pushing.

And then, is it 1. a false narrative that is being spammed into 'something I saw' programming.

or 2. selectively edited click bait, and if that is the case, have you taken the time to actually listen to the original speech/conversation and draw your own opinion on it.

or 3. Actually true, and something that should be concerning (ie Russia attacking our citizens online, that the Republicans are actively using this to cement their ability to maintain power to keep the mega rich from paying taxes. or whatever else).

And if 2, I am willing to do the same if you point it out.

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I appreciate you pointing those things out. I have been guilty myself of seeing edited material and thinking it was all true. But I will make a diligent and true effort to research things when I hear them or see them. And the reason I say that is because a responsible voter i have become so disenchanted with our political climate and all the bi- partisan bs. The last Presidential election I almost didn't vote because of being so disenchanted. But as an American citizen I feel it is my duty to vote. Just like I felt it was my duty to serve in the US ARMY for 12 years. I don't know why I said that it has nothing to do with this thread but sometimes I go on rants.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

i've often wondered exactly when it is in a kid's life that their parent's stupidity overcomes their own experiences.
kids have been going to integrated schools for generations, they've grown up knowing each other, being friends with each other, being lab partners, being on the same athletic teams, eating lunch together...if that was just left alone, in a few generations, there wouldn't be any racism. parents fuck all of it up, they subvert the evidence of their own children's eye, their own children's experiences. those kids either believe those lies, or they realize their own parents are racist liars...neither thing is something a kid should have to deal with.

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I don’t think it’s a moment in time but more of trying to do what is expected as a child and grasping for love and acceptance by kids of their parents. It’s something I grew up with re a truly racist parent and although I rejected his ideology I honestly have no answer as to why it didn’t stick, it did with my brother. I am thankful it did not, as life is way to short to devote any time hating due to the colour of one’s skin. I’ve never been one to not voice my objections if I feel the need, ya it’s got me in trouble a few times lol. I have a feeling you’ve been down that road Roger lol.

Skillcraft said:

I appreciate you pointing those things out. I have been guilty myself of seeing edited material and thinking it was all true. But I will make a diligent and true effort to research things when I hear them or see them. And the reason I say that is because a responsible voter i have become so disenchanted with our political climate and all the bi- partisan bs. The last Presidential election I almost didn't vote because of being so disenchanted. But as an American citizen I feel it is my duty to vote. Just like I felt it was my duty to serve in the US ARMY for 12 years. I don't know why I said that it has nothing to do with this thread but sometimes I go on rants.

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I’m not American but grew up with many good friends south of the border, and the last few years have been tough on some of those relationships. It’s not a huge effort to see what the MAGA crowd wants and is trying to achieve. Just take the time to listen to both sides, the fact is, it’s pretty simple to distinguish the morally corrupt. My question would be why the fuck is it even a discussion when it’s right there to see, they don’t hide it.

Budley Doright said:

I’m not American but grew up with many good friends south of the border, and the last few years have been tough on some of those relationships. It’s not a huge effort to see what the MAGA crowd wants and is trying to achieve. Just take the time to listen to both sides, the fact is, it’s pretty simple to distinguish the morally corrupt. My question would be why the fuck is it even a discussion when it’s right there to see, they don’t hide it.

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It is up for discussion as all things with me. I have voted for both Republican and Democrats. I know there are some extreme far right wing folks out there that I do not agree with. But there is also some far left extremist that I do not agree with. I do not belong to any political party.

Skillcraft said:

I appreciate you pointing those things out. I have been guilty myself of seeing edited material and thinking it was all true. But I will make a diligent and true effort to research things when I hear them or see them.

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Weird video I know, but it helps me keep perspective on how effective this attack is on our nation. Sometimes we override what we know is actually true, and we cannot stop it from happening even when we know what is going on.

Skillcraft said:

And the reason I say that is because a responsible voter i have become so disenchanted with our political climate and all the bi- partisan bs. The last Presidential election I almost didn't vote because of being so disenchanted.

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I almost didn't vote in 2016 too. The nudging is very effective.

Skillcraft said:

But as an American citizen I feel it is my duty to vote. Just like I felt it was my duty to serve in the US ARMY for 12 years. I don't know why I said that it has nothing to do with this thread but sometimes I go on rants.

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It is all good, welcome to the forum.

Skillcraft said:

It is up for discussion as all things with me. I have voted for both Republican and Democrats. I know there are some extreme far right wing folks out there that I do not agree with. But there is also some far left extremist that I do not agree with. I do not belong to any political party.

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Who in your opinion is a left extremist, and why?
While the word socialism gets invoked often, I am unaware of any socialists in government. The usual people like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are to the right of socialism, if you accept that the defining trait of socialists is seeking the collectivization of the means of production and economy.

So i’m curious whom you would name, and what stated policy desiderata make for being extreme left.

Skillcraft said:

It is up for discussion as all things with me. I have voted for both Republican and Democrats. I know there are some extreme far right wing folks out there that I do not agree with. But there is also some far left extremist that I do not agree with. I do not belong to any political party.

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Your right it is up for discussion but when I see the leader of a party and country (sad) belittle people, make fun of physically challenged, and use racial remarks, and that party supports him the discussion has pretty much ended for me. I honestly don’t see that same vitriol from the other side. But for discussions sake I’m willing to listen if you have examples.

Budley Doright said:

Your right it is up for discussion but when I see the leader of a party and country (sad) belittle people, make fun of physically challenged, and use racial remarks, and that party supports him the discussion has pretty much ended for me. I honestly don’t see that same vitriol from the other side. But for discussions sake I’m willing to listen if you have examples.

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I have to be honest and admit that I voted for Trump the first time. I must also admit that I wish I hadn't. I voted for Biden last election. The biggest things I disagree with when it comes to Democrats is the border security that is non existent, the tax policy and the handling of the economy. I know I am going to catch flack over that statement but it is my opinion. But I must say in fairness is that the biggest things I disagree with when it comes to Republicans is their sharp bi-partisanism (not sure if that is a word) their without fail backing of Donald Trump, and I really feel as though they have been on the wrong side of important issues to me such as race related issues, the affordable care act and I could name more. But I could name more issues from both sides I do not agree with.

I am going to dinner with my family. I will pick this up when I get back. Thanks for the good discussion and mutual respect we have shown one another.

Skillcraft said:

This is an issue that is not getting much play but is close to my heart. As a Native American (who looks white) that has been married to a black woman for over 20 years and have raised 2 black son's this is a hot button issue for me. I hope that the court does not strike it down. I have a lot more to say about this issue but am curious to see what others have to say and see some others opinions.

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seems like the SC is trying their damndest to alienate women with R v W and now minorities with affirmative action. it's like they want the US in a time warp back to the mid 1900's pronto.

Skillcraft said:

I have to be honest and admit that I voted for Trump the first time. I must also admit that I wish I hadn't. I voted for Biden last election. The biggest things I disagree with when it comes to Democrats is the border security that is non existent, the tax policy and the handling of the economy. I know I am going to catch flack over that statement but it is my opinion. But I must say in fairness is that the biggest things I disagree with when it comes to Republicans is their sharp bi-partisanism (not sure if that is a word) their without fail backing of Donald Trump, and I really feel as though they have been on the wrong side of important issues to me such as race related issues, the affordable care act and I could name more. But I could name more issues from both sides I do not agree with.

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the US/Mexico border is just short of 2K miles long, and there is 700 miles of fence...and the fence is essentially useless. any static obstacle can be overcome, and overcome faster and easier with experience.
there are about 16,000 border agents serving along the US/Mexico border...that is by far the largest law enforcement agency in the country, with a huge budget, 16.3 BILLION in 2022...
at the same time, we have a labor shortage, and inflation making food more expensive. if they stop migrant workers from coming across, food doesn't get picked/processed, and the price of food goes MUCH higher.

Every republican president since Reagan (and before) has put the country into a recession...that's a fact.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...versee-recessions-dems-recoveries/5235957002/
republicans raise taxes on middle and lower class people, while giving tax cuts to the wealthy. that's also a fact.
https://itep.org/top-republican-tax...e-corporations-is-a-tax-hike-on-middle-class/

https://www.majorityleader.gov/cont...-america-s-middle-class-families-can-t-afford

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/202...00000-campaign-promise-corporations-rich.html