Will they make it under a 250 HPS?

riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
hgkdehs said:
the bigger the light, the closer u can get to your goal of 7oz per plant. go with a 1000w if u can afford it. i agree with the other posters that u getting that is almost impossible on a 1st grow. but if u really want more, u need more light
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Not True, I just harvested 1.2 oz off one 21 inch tall plant with 97 watts of light. It is all about how you dial all of the elements in, light is merely one of them. getting more yield because you got a bigger light simply means your other elements are not dialed in properly!
 
J

Johnou833

Active Member
Yes there is a MASSVIE difference in heat from a 250w to a 600W, with your enclosed space I would defiently considering getting an air-cooled shade
 
hgkdehs

hgkdehs

Active Member
riddleme said:
Not True, I just harvested 1.2 oz off one 21 inch tall plant with 97 watts of light. It is all about how you dial all of the elements in, light is merely one of them. getting more yield because you got a bigger light simply means your other elements are not dialed in properly!
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he is growing six plants that are massive already. they need more light. trust me. i have flowered plants at 6" and got bout a qp a plant. dont think that would have happened had i used a 97 watt light. he wants big yields, not shake
 
riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
hgkdehs said:
he is growing six plants that are massive already. they need more light. trust me. i have flowered plants at 6" and got bout a qp a plant. dont think that would have happened had i used a 97 watt light. he wants big yields, not shake
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Not here to argue, not hatin on ya, I just want folks to understand that all the elements need to be tended to to get great yields, light is just one thing to adjust.

I agree that his plants are big and that they would benefit from more light, but adding the bigger light without dialing in the other factors is not going to help him reach his goals, as high as they may be.

So glad I learned to grow before HID's were invented bongsmilie
 
S

Superlevs

Member
I think what he is clearly saying is that its not just light that gets the yield in the jars. Its a combination of all of the factors, light being one of them. 50,000 lumens aint gonna get the happy results in 4 degrees celcius, nor are they in a ph of 9.0. But 5,000 lumens at ph 6 with 25 degress temps a plant will yield just fine. In this case though i think that this chappy does need a bigger light, just monitor the temps. Shouldn't have let em get so big tho. You will not be getting 7oz per plant either. If you get 15 oz from all of them i'd be happy.
 
RichiRich

RichiRich

Active Member
Thanks for all your answers...

I would like to get a 1000 watter, but that's not very realistic... Like I said, my name can be misleading. I'm not made of money, it's a good thing I can actually afford a 600 watter out of the blue.

I sure hope it will make a difference to my girls, may they flourish well :D

So to come to the point. Is there a high chance of 3-4 oz of dry, per plant with a 600w?

My plants are kind of big now... I vegged them this long (almost 3 months) on purpose so they would really be monsters when they flower.

I know the Super Silver Haze will almost definitely grow to the top of the space and be close to 2m tall - so 3-4 oz is realistic for her at least, right?

The other 5 plants are, Nebula, White Russian, White Widow, Hashberry and an AK 47.

-Rich

Edit : I am well aware that light is not the only thing that is crucial to obtaining a good yield... This is my first grow, I've made a couple of mistakes up til now, (like I've never checked my water pH yet.. getting a meter in a few days). However, I'm getting better by the day (I guess) and things look good, so I hope the new light will make me reach my goal of having a big yield :)
 
hgkdehs

hgkdehs

Active Member
riddleme said:
Not here to argue, not hatin on ya, I just want folks to understand that all the elements need to be tended to to get great yields, light is just one thing to adjust.

I agree that his plants are big and that they would benefit from more light, but adding the bigger light without dialing in the other factors is not going to help him reach his goals, as high as they may be.

So glad I learned to grow before HID's were invented bongsmilie
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yes i do definitely agree with that. i guess i just assume people have the other conditions correct, but i would probably be wrong more than not. :(
 
hgkdehs

hgkdehs

Active Member
RichiRich said:
Thanks for all your answers...

I would like to get a 1000 watter, but that's not very realistic... Like I said, my name can be misleading. I'm not made of money, it's a good thing I can actually afford a 600 watter out of the blue.

I sure hope it will make a difference to my girls, may they flourish well :D

So to come to the point. Is there a high chance of 3-4 oz of dry, per plant with a 600w?

My plants are kind of big now... I vegged them this long (almost 3 months) on purpose so they would really be monsters when they flower.

I know the Super Silver Haze will almost definitely grow to the top of the space and be close to 2m tall - so 3-4 oz is realistic for her at least, right?

The other 5 plants are, Nebula, White Russian, White Widow, Hashberry and an AK 47.

-Rich
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the only way ""I"" think you will be able to get 3-4 oz is to go with the 1000. i know thats not what u wanna hear sorry
 
C

chevota

Member
I'd buy a 600w now, then another 600w later as they need it. If your room is 2x2 meters, that's a good size for those two bulbs. The bennies of two 600 vs one 1000 is not only will you get the extra 200w, but ea watt makes more lumens because the 600w bulbs are more efficient. You'll get 140k lumen w/ 1000w, and up to 190k lumens w/ two 600 bulbs. 35% increase for only 20% more power. You'll save power too because you'll be running just one 600 for now. If you buy the Lumatek like I did then you're even better off because they're adjustable. Mine goes from 360-400-600-600super (whatever that means). So you could skip the 250w unit and set it to 360 and work your way up as they need it. Also, if one 1000w takes a dump you're screwed, but w/ two 600 you have a backup until you can fix it. The Lumatek w/ reflector, cord and bulb cost me $255 on egay, no tx free ship (seller mgssupply). They're 1/2 the price of the 1k so you're not losing any $. And of course two 600 will distribute light much better than one 1k will. I can't think of one single reason for buying a 1k unit. You could also buy one 400w and one 600 if you wanted. That's what I did. The 400 is adj from ~230-250-400-400super. So between the two I can get just about any combo of light I could ever want, plus they take either MH or HPS. I plan on running the 600 w/ HPS and the 400 alternating between MH & HPS to be sure they get all the freq they need.

With the 250w bulb only the plants directly under the bulb will be happy. 250 simply will not cover 4 square meters strongly enough for good bud production at the outer edge or below the canopy...

As for cooling those hot lights, sucking the air out the top is best if you can. Allow cool air from the floor to come in at the bottom and adj the fan speed to control the temp. If that isn't enough they sell light reflector/tubes that suck the heat right from the bulb. Last resort is a small A/C unit. I have a small 5kbtu A/C unit ready for when summer hits. There's just no other way to keep a room below 80F when it's 80-100 outside...
 
Z4ch

Z4ch

Active Member
thanks for tha thread rich. i had the same questions.. i went w/ a 250 bc i got in to much of a hurry. i learned the hard way, an im gna buy another 250..
 
RichiRich

RichiRich

Active Member
chevota said:
I'd buy a 600w now, then another 600w later as they need it. If your room is 2x2 meters, that's a good size for those two bulbs. The bennies of two 600 vs one 1000 is not only will you get the extra 200w, but ea watt makes more lumens because the 600w bulbs are more efficient. You'll get 140k lumen w/ 1000w, and up to 190k lumens w/ two 600 bulbs. 35% increase for only 20% more power. You'll save power too because you'll be running just one 600 for now. If you buy the Lumatek like I did then you're even better off because they're adjustable. Mine goes from 360-400-600-600super (whatever that means). So you could skip the 250w unit and set it to 360 and work your way up as they need it. Also, if one 1000w takes a dump you're screwed, but w/ two 600 you have a backup until you can fix it. The Lumatek w/ reflector, cord and bulb cost me $255 on egay, no tx free ship (seller mgssupply). They're 1/2 the price of the 1k so you're not losing any $. And of course two 600 will distribute light much better than one 1k will. I can't think of one single reason for buying a 1k unit. You could also buy one 400w and one 600 if you wanted. That's what I did. The 400 is adj from ~230-250-400-400super. So between the two I can get just about any combo of light I could ever want, plus they take either MH or HPS. I plan on running the 600 w/ HPS and the 400 alternating between MH & HPS to be sure they get all the freq they need.

With the 250w bulb only the plants directly under the bulb will be happy. 250 simply will not cover 4 square meters strongly enough for good bud production at the outer edge or below the canopy...

As for cooling those hot lights, sucking the air out the top is best if you can. Allow cool air from the floor to come in at the bottom and adj the fan speed to control the temp. If that isn't enough they sell light reflector/tubes that suck the heat right from the bulb. Last resort is a small A/C unit. I have a small 5kbtu A/C unit ready for when summer hits. There's just no other way to keep a room below 80F when it's 80-100 outside...
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input.

Well, the thing is, another lamp would cause too much heat imo. I mean, the area really isn't that big, as you can see in the pics. I mean, it isn't that small either, but 2 lamps would really cramp it up...

Besides, I'm very lucky to be able to afford a 600 watter now, just like that. Another 600 or 1000w is out of the question for now, at least. Maybe in my next grow I will be able to afford (almost definitely actually...).

I think you can see that the 250 does cover all the plants, but what bugs me is a) it's not so intense and b) it doesn't penetrate well. I'm hoping a 600w will fix that.

And Z4ch, don't go and buy another 250 - get a 400 or 600w!

-Rich
 
hgkdehs

hgkdehs

Active Member
chevota said:
I can't think of one single reason for buying a 1k unit.
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U forgot to mention one major advantage that the 1000w has. LIGHT PENETRATION!!! While a 600 is a LITTLE more efficient, it just does not even compare to a 1000w in terms of light penetration. Unless u plan on having ALL the buds at the same height, a 1000w will smoke the 600w in terms of light penetration. I have switched out from a 600 to a 1000 midgrow, and it made a huge difference. Under the main canopy, everything was pretty dark with the 600, but with a 1000, it actually made underneath the canopy pretty bright. And as everyone knows, buds just dont grow on the canopy. They grow underneath it as well. And if u want these buds to get any size to them, they need light, and a 600 usually just wont do the job in that aspect :(
 
hgkdehs

hgkdehs

Active Member
and also, i noticed how u did ur math on the bulbs and lumens. Generally, the WORST 1000w bulbs i see emit only 140,000 lumens. And the BEST 600w bulbs emit 95,000. So why would u compare the worst of one to the best of another??? Unless u are partial to the 600 and are just trying to get people to agree. But distorting the facts to do so isnt cool.
 
RichiRich

RichiRich

Active Member
Sorry but a 1K HPS is out of the question, it's twice the price of a 600w...

I'm pretty sure the 600w will suffice for 6 plants. Fuck it, I could even keep the 250 running at the same time, why not?

-Rich
 
C

chevota

Member
hgkdehs: I admit I haven't researched the 1000 watters 100%, but I did research for hours online before I bought the 600 and I didn't see any 1K's adv over 140. The 600 are usually 90k, but 95's are out. I'm sure they're all exaggerations, but for comparo I think the % difference it probably accurate. I'm not picking sides, if I missed the more powerful 1k's then I'd rather be proven wrong and know the truth. So please post links to the places I missed...

As for penetration, sure a 1k will penetrate the plants directly under it better than a 600, but the two 600's will penetrate better overall on avg. I'd rather have all plants produce bud 1/3 the way down than 10% producing 1/2 and the rest 1/4.
Btw, I wasn't comparing one 600 to one 1k, I was comparing two 600 to one 1k. One 1k in a 2x2M room means the furthest plants will be 1M away + the extra height you need to set a 1k. The furthest 600 bulb will be much closer to each plants both vertically and horizontally. The plants in the center where the one 1k would've been will be receiving weaker light from ea 600 bulb, but it's X2. The strength of the light simply drops too quickly for one single source to be advantageous. Also, with two bulbs you're reaching more leaves because there are less shadowed areas when the light is coming from from two directions. I'd actually prefer four lights if it were cost effective, but four 250's is just a waste of $. The 600's are the best buy in both initial purchase $/lumen and elect $/lumen. Imo that is....
Richi can't afford the 1k unit now anyway, so the 600 now and another is 600 later is best for him at this time either way.
 
RichiRich

RichiRich

Active Member
The plants are really not that far away from each other, so a 600 will penetrate just fine, I hope.

Going to get it in a few hours - yay!!! Will post pics

-Rich
 
hgkdehs

hgkdehs

Active Member
I have done my own research on the issue. And I did more than just read some text off some websites. I actually set up the systems myself and compared the results. I have extra equipment that has stockpiled over the years and get bored sometimes and like to experiment. While yes, 2 600s would give more penetration than 1, it still doesnt beat the penetration of a 1000. There is a reason that you have to put the lights so much closer with a 600 than with a 1000. The light penetration just isnt there. You can argue more if u want, but what i suggest doing, is to actually go set this up and just LOOK at the difference. I would say go get a lux meter to measure it, but the difference is so great, you can just tell by looking at the lighting difference on the undersides, but im sure there would be a major difference in the lux meter if u were to actually get one and try it.
And I understand that rich cant afford it, but if he ever can, its better he knows what best first off. Rather than buying all this mess like I have just to see whats better for yourself
http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=47669
http://www.sunmastergrowlamps.com/SunmWhatsNew.html
and heres some links to 150000 lumen hps bulbs, since they are so rare(they are all over the place)
i would have thought that someone who has done as much reading about the issue, would have at least known that there were 150000 lumen bulbs. im just kinda of curious how someone who doesnt even know that, KNOWS that 600s are better than 1000s. odd
 
hgkdehs

hgkdehs

Active Member
btw, im not saying 600s are useless or anything. If u have an even bud canopy, then yes I would say 2 600s would be better. But like most of us, people usually have uneven bud canopies since that is how they grow naturally. I use mine for seed starting and veg since they are little and dont need the penetration
 
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