Will You Take The Vaccine?

OG-KGP said:

Healthy with covid is different than fat with covid that was the discussion. Do i have to point that out to you?

Don't like, don't look. You should know that by now. I was in conversation about obesity and self discipline, thought you were smart enough to figure that out too. .

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the sight of that disgusting carcass drove other thoughts from my head, all i could think was "what a waste of time, by someone who desperately needs to be developing their mind"

Herb & Suds said:

Just for the record
His body is not disgusting
If was gay I would hit that

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i just keep thinking that for every over developed muscle, there is an under developed whorl of grey matter, withering away in a skull that's rapidly developing more and more room...

Roger A. Shrubber said:

the sight of that disgusting carcass drove other thoughts from my head, all i could think was "what a waste of time, by someone who desperately needs to be developing their mind"

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Carcass? I'm still alive, you haven't assassinated me yet. KGP 2024. I'm kidding, don't shoot me.

Sorry my health is a waste of time and disgusting to you. Ill try to do better.

DIY-HP-LED said:

All scientific truth is statistical in these matters, you anecdotes and unverified single example prove nothing, it's not science. Diets don't work over the long term for over 99% of those who are overweight, that's science. Sure you can lose weight by fasting and eating less, but unlike most addictions you have to eat 3 times a day and it is instinctively driven. Addictions can be quit all at once and are easier to deal with than obesity.

None compare to vaccines and the weight of science behind them and the accumulated data thus far. Someday they will come up with an effective vaccine for all strains of corona virus that is durable. It won't helped the cursed such as yourself though, you'll keep getting covid every couple of years, shaving IQ points off with each bout.

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In all seriousness, if you want help with a diet where you can eat as much as you want and loose body fat at a more rapid rate than traditional starvation diets, I would be glad to help. And no, im not selling anything.

I know you all think I am some dumbass, but I do know dieting and would be willing to help anyone.

OG-KGP said:

Carcass? I'm still alive, you haven't assassinated me yet. KGP 2024. I'm kidding, don't shoot me.

Sorry my health is a waste of time and disgusting to you. Ill try to do better.

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i give a shit what you do, except go around during a pandemic refusing to take any precautions to protect those around you...
you infect three people in a day, those people go on to infect three people each, now there are 13 infected people, next day they infect three people each, now there are 42 infected people, next day there are 126, then there are 378.......but the truth is it's probably more like 15 to 20 people each, at the store, on the bus, in the subway, at work, at church, in school...

Roger A. Shrubber said:

i give a shit what you do, except go around during a pandemic refusing to take any precautions to protect those around you...
you infect three people in a day, those people go on to infect three people each, now there are 13 infected people, next day they infect three people each, now there are 42 infected people, next day there are 126, then there are 378.......but the truth is it's probably more like 15 to 20 people each, at the store, on the bus, in the subway, at work, at church, in school...

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Its cool. I stayed home while sick. I don't take the bus, subway, or any public transportation, and I work in my office, by myself.

This seems relevant

OG-KGP said:

In all seriousness, if you want help with a diet where you can eat as much as you want and loose body fat at a more rapid rate than traditional starvation diets, I would be glad to help. And no, im not selling anything.

I know you all think I am some dumbass, but I do know dieting and would be willing to help anyone.

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i don't think you're particularly stupid, i think you bought into a load of horseshit, and are now too invested to be able to drop it..to do so would invalidate your entire world view, and you would have to realize that you are wrong about just about every social idea and preconception that you have...and that you were being a coward in refusing a vaccine that would help protect anyone who came around you, and all the people they then come into contact with. it has nothing to do with how healthy you are, or that you can get the virus and shrug it off. many people cannot do that, and you act as an incubator for new variants, the longer you are infected, the more new variant you can carry, and spread to everyone that comes in contact with you, just prolonging this whole mess you refuse to take any responsibility for...

OG-KGP said:

My solution?

Let the fat be fat. Same way the vaxed be vaxed.

No camps, that was the nazi's.

When you get older, and you don't want a gut, diet and exercise. Its simple. If having a gut doesn't bother you, grow it.

I am self disciplined as I claim. I'm doing alright financially. I smoke pot. I really like it. Its a hobby of mine. I know all the negative effects and could quit if I wanted to at any time.

Everything is temporary. Thats the law of time. No getting around that. Ive been working out since about 15 years old. I am forty now.

Not bragging but here is current physic.

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Here's the thing, if you don't want to get vaxxed that's your business by law, so far. However spreading antivaxxer disinformation that is proven harmful is not good and trying to rationalize your fear based decisions using it is wrong and dangerous to others. So is victimizing the overweight and addicted because of your misguided beliefs and deluded self perception.

Let's see how really disciplined you are, here is a course that can benefit you enormously and there is a ton of evidence backing this up. It's exercise and requires sustained self discipline, but also grows it too along with other parts of your brain. It works just like physical exercise and it takes about 8 weeks to get into shape, same as for aerobic and strength, changes in brain structure can be measured using fMRI scanners after just 8 weeks. However your perception of reality will change noticeably and you'll be happier, more at ease and balanced than you have ever felt.

Here is the modern way to begin the path, evidence based. Happiness is an end, it has no other ulterior motive and it ain't the same as pleasure. Exercise and grow your brain too and you can meditate while at the gym, just like yoga, it's a matter of attention and focus on your body. This is mind/body science.
Up for the challenge?

OG-KGP said:

In all seriousness, if you want help with a diet where you can eat as much as you want and loose body fat at a more rapid rate than traditional starvation diets, I would be glad to help. And no, im not selling anything.

I know you all think I am some dumbass, but I do know dieting and would be willing to help anyone.

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I already know a lot about diet and fitness as well as other things that might interest someone looking to better themselves.

DurumGallico said:

Never talked about simple covid, i said a disease like flu could harm fragile people as much as covid, and also lead to their death. Do we blame unvaccinated people against flu to be killers ? No. Same thing applies for covid.
And another point, first time in history we blame people who don't take the medecine for the lack of efficiency of this medecine.
If vaccine is so efficient, just give fragile people vaccines and let other people out of that.
As i said, Israël and pfizer admit vaccine is no longer efficient against omicron spread, even less that it was against delta. It should be an individual choice based on your age and health, knowing it's not a 100% efficient magical treatment, triple vaccinated can still die from covid.

About your personal case, it remains a personale case. In my town, 50% of total capacity in icu, half of this for covid. And only half of this half is unvaccinated.

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^^Prisoner of the moment logical fallacies.

A brief history of right wing prisoner of the moment propaganda:

At first your kind said it WAS a cold. Then it would just go away. Then quack doctors said to take HCQ. Then it was a plandemic. Then masks don't work. Then China attacked us with it. Then it isn't dangerous at all. Then those hospitals were faking the numbers. Then microchips in the vaccines.

All of those lies (and that's just a fraction of the number told) were fabricated to fill in the knowlege gap that always shows up while we are learning about a new threat.

This statement is just another in that long list of propaganda alternative reality bullshit:

"As i said, Israël and pfizer admit vaccine is no longer efficient against omicron spread, even less that it was against delta. It should be an individual choice based on your age and health, knowing it's not a 100% efficient magical treatment, triple vaccinated can still die from covid."

Non sequitur. One does not follow the other. Vaccines don't stop infections. This has no bearing on what society, individuals or the employers should do to protect themselves. Vaccines do protect people who become infected and that has value. End of story.

The vaccine is very effective at protecting people who are fully boosted. Companies who choose to mandate vaccination as a condition of employment can and should mandate it for their own reasons. The vaccines are safe and effective. Society is better off when everybody is fully boosted. In the US, the government may not have the power to mandate citizens be vaccinated but there are good reasons why schools, public employers and private workplaces should implement their own mandates.

zeddd said:

Interesting when the science says two vaccines no good for current strain ( other strains have gone now) having had the disease is better but 3 shots are better still. Do you think you need to adapt the narrative in the light of this new science?

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I don't think "the science says" two vaccines are no good. They say the original two shots no longer prevent infection. Not the same as "no good".

Then again, why the 3rd shot being "better" and not the first two? This is what the director of NIH says:

There’s been great concern about the new Omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19. A major reason is Omicron has accumulated over 50 mutations, including about 30 in the spike protein, the part of the coronavirus that mRNA vaccines teach our immune systems to attack. All of these genetic changes raise the possibility that Omicron could cause breakthrough infections in people who’ve already received a Pfizer or Moderna mRNA vaccine.

So, what does the science show? The first data to emerge present somewhat encouraging results. While our existing mRNA vaccines still offer some protection against Omicron, there appears to be a significant decline in neutralizing antibodies against this variant in people who have received two shots of an mRNA vaccine.

However, initial results of studies conducted both in the lab and in the real world show that people who get a booster shot, or third dose of vaccine, may be better protected. Though these data are preliminary, they suggest that getting a booster will help protect people already vaccinated from breakthrough or possible severe infections with Omicron during the winter months.


Sounds like protective value of the third booster will also diminish over time.

Fogdog said:

I don't think "the science says" two vaccines are no good. They say the original two shots no longer prevent infection. Not the same as "no good".

Then again, why the 3rd shot being "better" and not the first two? This is what the director of NIH says:

There’s been great concern about the new Omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19. A major reason is Omicron has accumulated over 50 mutations, including about 30 in the spike protein, the part of the coronavirus that mRNA vaccines teach our immune systems to attack. All of these genetic changes raise the possibility that Omicron could cause breakthrough infections in people who’ve already received a Pfizer or Moderna mRNA vaccine.

So, what does the science show? The first data to emerge present somewhat encouraging results. While our existing mRNA vaccines still offer some protection against Omicron, there appears to be a significant decline in neutralizing antibodies against this variant in people who have received two shots of an mRNA vaccine.

However, initial results of studies conducted both in the lab and in the real world show that people who get a booster shot, or third dose of vaccine, may be better protected. Though these data are preliminary, they suggest that getting a booster will help protect people already vaccinated from breakthrough or possible severe infections with Omicron during the winter months.

Latest on Omicron Variant and COVID-19 Vaccine Protection

There’s been a great concern about the new Omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19. A major reason is Omicron has accumulated over 50 mutations, including about 30 in th…

directorsblog.nih.gov

Sounds like protective value of the third booster will also diminish over time.

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I posted a link to the research paper, it clearly shows that 2 shots give no protection re infection with omicron but that 2 shots with a booster gives protection as does having the disease. It doesn’t go into the why of this surprising result because it’s pure research which doesn’t throw up a “why”

DurumGallico said:

Hum don't think i talked about that, it might be my bad english sorry.

I don't think the issue is the number of dead people. this guy says i'm a killer because i could transmit it to weak people, we could make the exact same logic with flu, and he's wrong, no matter how much people could be impacted by my decision the logic is the same.
And he's 100% wrong, as i said it's up to the fragile people to be protected, and not the entire population that must treat themselve in order to prevent other people to be sick. Medecine does not work like that, you take a medecine to heal not to prevent other people to be sick.

We have examples of countries hit by omicron with a low vaccinated population, South Africa to name one, and there was not a huge increase of hospitalizations and deaths, your logic is based on suppositions. The truth is that we really don't know how much massive vaccination impacted the pandemic.

Sorry but your logic is biased ; vaccine don't prevent transmission, only severe forms of the disease. Vaccinated people still can transmit and spread the disease, and it's the major point why restrictive law against unvaccinated people are unefficient and even counter-productive. Vaccinated people, with this bias in mind, don't care anymore about social distancing and spread the disease a lot more than an unvaccinated forced to stay home.
About loss of medical help for unvaccinated, i don't agree also. If we follow your logics then smokers, obese, alcoholics, roadhogs, etc etc definitely shouldn't get heatlhcare too.

I said this to point that it was not a miracle bullet as you agreed. Old people in bad health should definitely protect themselves with vaccine, younger healthy people don't need to.

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Your english seems to be fine now.

The number of dead people is the issue. We have had the Flu forever and we have not had it turn a building of seniors citizens into a breeding ground with scores of dead as the result. As far as using medicine to keep people from getting sick, how many vaccinations have you had in your life? I have had many as a kid.

Actually hospitalizations went up for children in SA. And SA has a younger population than most Western countries. Aples to oranges, you can look for patterns but don't get fooled by not looking at the big picture. My logic is based on science, I have been reading medical papers and real medical articles since the virus came out. I know a little human biology, have easily read a thousand medical papers before covid. Your saying what I know or do not is a figment that you made up in your head. I know how much we know and how much we do not know of Omi. I agree that we do not know as much as we want to, we do with what we know as we go along.

I disagree with you that unvaccinated people are a greater threat as they do not care about social distancing than the unvaccinated. It is the unvaccinated that do not want to get the shot or have any restrictions on gatherings or wear masks. We even have our own pocket of people that believe this, my brother in law's sister just got out of the ICU just before Christmas. She was anti-vax, there is no virus in their area. And it is not much more than a cold, the government and news outlets are lying to people. You don't have to try and BS me about vaxed people living like it is 1999.

Smoking? What good is it? Obese people? Half the US population are obese, Canada a little better, guessing many of the other Western countries are the same. Alcoholics? No, they need help.

The young will survive? Still a crap shoot. This nurse just got her pin (graduated) and then died of covid in the hospital I worked at.

DurumGallico said:

Situation in US with kids is special, no other country has this kind of rate, and is primarly due to obesity amongst children we don't find anywhere else.
In my country i'm not killing little children by not being vaccinated, so stop your flow of childish insults against me, thanks

*And you're out of point since we were talking about adults.

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Use the Google Machine before you say something you do not know about. Top article in the list..

High rates of childhood obesity alarming given anticipated impact of COVID-19 pandemic
In some countries of the WHO European Region, 1 in 3 children aged 6 to 9 years is living with overweight or obesity. Mediterranean countries have the highest rates of obesity, but the situation there is starting to improve.

These are some of the findings of a new WHO European Childhood Obesity Surveillance Initiative (COSI) report on the fourth round of data collection (2015–2017). The report gives the latest data available on 6- to 9-year-olds in 36 countries in the Region. A questionnaire collecting data from 2021 on the impact of the pandemic will follow from some countries.

“COVID-19 could potentially amplify one of the most worrying trends in the WHO European Region – growing childhood obesity,” said Dr Hans Henri P. Kluge, WHO Regional Director for Europe.

“Being overweight or obese is directly associated with life-threatening noncommunicable diseases such as cardiovascular diseases, diabetes and cancer. What we must do to brighten the future of coming generations is implement science- and data-based policies that can help reduce childhood obesity, while promoting healthier diets and physical activity,” Dr Kluge added.

COVID-19 is likely to negatively impact childhood obesity levels in the WHO European Region, and hence the results of the next rounds of the COSI survey. School closures and lockdowns can impact access to school meals and physical activity times for children, widening inequalities. Childhood obesity prevention strategies should therefore remain a priority during the pandemic.

CunningCanuk said:

No. I asked if you would have unprotected sex if you knew they had STD’s

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But I was drunk.

Fogdog said:

<SNIP>

…A brief history of right wing prisoner of the moment propaganda:

At first your kind said it WAS a cold. Then it would just go away. Then quack doctors said to take HCQ. Then it was a plandemic. Then masks don't work. Then China attacked us with it. Then it isn't dangerous at all. Then those hospitals were faking the numbers. Then microchips in the vaccines.

All of those lies (and that's just a fraction of the number told) were fabricated to fill in the knowlege gap that always shows up while we are learning about a new threat…

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This is quite a good summary. My wife works with a conspiracy theory lady who moves to believing each new lie about COVID and many other topics - all of which she earnestly seems to believe - that come across her feed. It’s crazy but it’s like she can’t believe actual truth. She really is a prisoner of propaganda.

zeddd said:

I posted a link to the research paper, it clearly shows that 2 shots give no protection re infection with omicron but that 2 shots with a booster gives protection as does having the disease. It doesn’t go into the why of this surprising result because it’s pure research which doesn’t throw up a “why”

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I read that paper and saw the contradiction. On the face of it, without any other information, its a contradiction. Contradictions like that are clues that bear investigation.

I'm not immunologist. I don't even work in the field of medicine. So, I'm not going to try to cite reasons. What the director of the NIH is saying makes sense to me

" initial results of studies conducted both in the lab and in the real world show that people who get a booster shot, or third dose of vaccine, may be better protected. "





Because this is data from the populations of whole countries, we can't call this a controlled experiment. Presumably, those first two shots were given months ago and the booster was given recently. Maybe I'm connecting two dots and calling it a straight line but I see time after immunization is probably an important factor in all this. It's not a huge leap in faith, we've seen antibody levels drop over time for other viruses. Concurrent with that drop in antibody levels is increased susceptibility to infection.

So, yeah, I said I wouldn't cite a reason and then I kind of did. I filled in a knowledge gap with a hypothesis. Doesn't change anything for me at the moment. I'm OK with watching and waiting until better information becomes available.

Fogdog said:

I read that paper and saw the contradiction. On the face of it, without any other information, its a contradiction. Contradictions like that are clues that bear investigation.

I'm not immunologist. I don't even work in the field of medicine. So, I'm not going to try to cite reasons. What the director of the NIH is saying makes sense to me

" initial results of studies conducted both in the lab and in the real world show that people who get a booster shot, or third dose of vaccine, may be better protected. "

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Because this is data from the populations of whole countries, we can't call this a controlled experiment. Presumably, those first two shots were given months ago and the booster was given recently. Maybe I'm connecting two dots and calling it a straight line but I see time after immunization is probably an important factor in all this. It's not a huge leap in faith, we've seen antibody levels drop over time for other viruses. Concurrent with that drop in antibody levels is increased susceptibility to infection.

So, yeah, I said I wouldn't cite a reason and then I kind of did. I filled in a knowledge gap with a hypothesis. Doesn't change anything for me at the moment. I'm OK with watching and waiting until better information becomes available.

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It’s not defined as a contradiction as that would imply that it went against theory, it is simply an unexpected finding which needs more scientific exploration with new studies.
You are citing opinion (albeit from a respected expert) in favour of current research, the expert you mention would favour the research over his own opinion, as is the scientific method.

Here are some local stats, mostly omicron and it's been a month since it started here, there are 59 people in the hospital and over 10,000 or more infected. Pop in 1M even

The vaccination status of those in hospital is:

seven (11.9 per cent) people have had a third dose of COVID-19 vaccine
35 (59.3 per cent) are fully vaccinated (two doses)
two (3.4 per cent) are partially vaccinated
15 (25.4 per cent) are unvaccinated
Less than 10 per cent of Nova Scotians are unvaccinated, according to public health.