Withering leaves on a plant

Hey guys,

Soil grown plant as you can see in the photos. Just over two months old. The lower leaves are withering. Had possible nutrient burn, so I flushed the soil twice. I have not added anything since, other than distilled water. The plant has been transplanted once already. The leaves further up the plant seem to be okay.

Is it possible the plant is root bound and if so what is the best way to tell? I am afraid the plant will go into shock. It looks like it's ready to go into flowering mode.

Thanks,
Bob

Hmm how often are u watering it? sure ur not over or underwatering it? And so now ur not giving it any nutes? since ur not 2 weeks away from harvesting u should prolly be giving it some kind of nutes.

I test the moisture level every day with a meter. I never overwater, and let the soil dry a bit before replenishing. Understood about the nutes, just concerned that I don't want to burn again. I am going to purchase a better pH tester, and another kit for testing nitrogen and phosphorus levels. Any preferences, w/o breaking the bank?

start with there is no need to buy that type of nute tester. just a decent ph tester. now that you flushed her there is nothing in the soil for her to eat, after a flush i recomend a fresh dose of ph`d nutes. let dry till almost wilt then start back at a regular feed schedule.
what soil do you have and what nutes and how often do you give nutes compared to straight water

@ bonz:

Wow! Never thought of letting the plant dry out. With all the work I've put, I have grown attached to the batch; paternal instincts coming out.

With that said, I will do as you suggest, with almost wilting. One of the neighboring plants has started to enter the flowering stage, so I suspect my troubled plant will soon.

The plant is in Miracle Gro (I know, bad choice, but that's all that was available locally) soil. That was my first and last feed application. It's been straight water since then.

Since I am on the verge between vegetative and flowering states, any particular fertilizer blends that you recommend? I was looking at some of the Fox Farm products, but was unsure which to choose. Once the style of nutes is selected, do I need a K/N/Mg tester?

Thanks in advance,
Bob

this is how i do my watering schedule, most people say use the finger in soil method but i dont find it accurate enough for me. i will water my plant till i get a bit of run off, then i pick up pot and check weight and remember how heavy it is, then when i feel it`s weight over the next few days i notice it get lighter. i let it get bone dry so the soil is almost pulling away from the sides of bucket then water. depending on bucket size that could be as little as once a week, or as often as every second or third day. with soilless mixes like mine its more often ( every couple days in 2 gallon pots.) then i would feed every second or third watering. you dont need a nute tester. i would get a ph tester ( not an aquarium or pool one) i also bought a ppm/ec pen but dont use it much, sticking to the directions on nutes you should be ok without it untill you want to do your own feeding mixes. fox farms is good stuff, i use organic stuff. botanicares pure blend pro veg, bloom, cal-mag, and liquid karma is what i use and a few goodies in the soil. organics are easier to use it is harder to burn or lock up the soil, gives a better clean tasting pot. mine locked up once on this batch and it was because of my watering schedule ( to often) they will do better on the dry side if your woried about it. are they indoor or outdoor, how long have they been in the new soil. at least you noticed the problem with miricle grow, slow release nutes is usualy the cause.

I went out and purchased a Milwaukee test pen (model?), and a small bottle of pH Up and pH Down. Will test pH tonight.

Indoor growth, about three weeks in the new soil. Lights were originally on 24/7, then adjusted down, now on a 12/12 on/off cycle. The seeds are bag leftovers, so I don't know the strain.

I had some issues where the plants grew quickly during the day, with the top leaves getting singed on the CFL.

good call on the digital pen instead of the liquid

So the readings of the six plants from the Milwaukee pen:

6.4, 6.3, 5.6, 6.6, 5.7 and 6.4

The two 5.x are the most alarming. Considering that pH should only be raised by 0.1 per day, how many drops of pH UP do I use, and then I do I add water every day?

Bob

you will need lime to raise ph in the soil. the ph up and down solution is when adding nutes to ph the mix. stay with the wet/dry thing. just let it dry between watering. you were mentioning using fox farm, they have a 3 pack of nutes i believe that would give a good base. if you go that route i have a feed schedule i can post for ya. anyway here is something on the ph issuse that may help.

What is pH?


pH is the measure of how basic or acidic a solution is. The pH of a substance is measured in a numerical fashion using a scale of 1 through 14. A solution with a pH higher than 7.0 is considered to be basic and is called a base (or alkaline). A solution with a pH less than 7.0 is considered to be acidic and is called an acid. The strength of an acid or base can be either weak or strong. The stronger an acid or base, the closer the solution is to its respective number on the pH scale (basic being 15 and acid being 1). The weaker a solution or base, the closer its pH value is to a neutral rating (neutral being 7). Every full point change in pH signifies a 10 fold increase or decrease in acidity or alkalinity. For example, water with a pH of 6.0 is 10 times more acidic than water with a pH of 7.0, while water with a pH of 5.0 is 100 times more acidic than water with a pH of 7.0.

Here are some examples of acids and bases and their respective pH ratings.
-.2 Battery Acid
1.2 Gastric fluid
2.2 Lemon juice
3.6 Orange juice
4.4 Beer
5.6 Pure Rain
6.6 Milk
7.0 Distilled water (H2O)
8.0 Seawater
9.2 Baking soda (NaHCO3)
10.6 Milk of Magnesia (Mg(OH)2)
11.4 Household ammonia (NH3)
12.8 Household bleach (NaClO)
13.6 Household lye (NaOH)

What is PH? pt. 2

pH is defined in chemistry in several ways. An acid is sometimes defined as a solution with the potential to donate a Hydrogen ion (H+, also called a proton), or to accept a Hydroxide Ion (OH-) from a base. A base on the other hand is sometimes defined as a solution with ability to donate a Hydroxide Ion, or... you've guessed it, accept a Hydrogen ion. Low pH corresponds to a high hydrogen ion concentration and vice versa, while a high pH corresponds to a high Hydroxide ion concentration and vice versa.

Why is pH important when growing a plant?

Any substance that is going to be used to support any form of life has to fall within a certain range on the pH scale. The range may vary from organism to organism. Marijuana is no different. The soil, nutrient solutions and water all need to be monitored and adjusted to stay within a specific range, depending on your method of growing. When growing Marijuana in soil, the soil and water supply should stay within the range of 6.5 to 7.0, while in hydroponics the nutrient solution should stay within the range of 5.5 and 6.0.
When a plant's soil or nutrient solution becomes too basic the nutrients become unavailable to be absorbed by the roots. When the soil or nutrient solution becomes too acidic the acid salts will chemically bind together the available nutrients and they will be nonabsorbent by the roots. When this happens the plant will show tell-tale signs of stress. Some novice growers and even a few seasoned growers will falsely think they need to add more nutes or fert, which only compounds the problem by usually causing toxic salt build-up. Toxic salt build-up stops the roots from absorbing water. So remember as a rule of thumb to always test the pH before reducing or increasing a fert or nute dosage!
The pH of your soil or hydroponics setup can be measured with a simple 20$ or 30$ pH Tester, or small one time paper tests. These are highly recommended when growing any plant.

Some things to remember when using an electronic pH tester

1. Clean the probes of the meter after each test and wipe away any corrosion.
2. Pack the soil tightly around the probes.
3. Water soil with distilled or neutral pH water (7.0) before testing.
4. The meters measure the electrical current between two probes and are
designed to work in moist soil. If the soil is dry, the probes do not give
an accurate reading

What causes fluctuations in pH?

When growing in soil any fertilizer you use can cause an excess build up of salts when it decomposes in the soil. This almost always results in a more acidic soil which stunts the plant's growth and causes brown foliage. When using a Hydroponics set-up the nutrient solution can very easily cause a fluctuation in the growing reservoir. Other common reasons as to why soil may become too acidic when doing outdoor grows are rainfall, leaching, organic matter decay and a previous harvest of a high yeild crop in the same soil. In dry climates, such as the desert Southwest US, Spain, Australia, etc., irrigation water is often alkaline with a pH above 7. The water in rainy climates, such as the Pacific Northwest of North America, the UK, Netherlands and Northern Europe, is often acidic with a pH below 6. Lightly sandy soils with little clay and organic matter are quicker too become more acidic. Another common mistake is that a grower will mix his soil unevenly, leading to "hot spots" in the growing medium, so mix all ratios as well as you can.

How do I raise/lower my pH?

A great way to regulate the pH of your soil is to use Dolomite Lime(calcium-magnesium carbonate). While growing Cannabis plants in containers, mix one cup of fine dolomite lime for each cubic foot of soil, then lightly water it. After watering, mix it once more and wait a day or two before checking the pH. While growing in an outdoor garden, follow the dolomite lime manufacturers instructions. Dolomite Lime works well because it has a neutral pH rating of 7.0 and tends to keep the soil a constant pH throughout the entire life cycle of the plant. This is a highly recommended method of regulating your soil pH.
If you find the pH of your soil or Hydroponic reservoir to be too acidic or basic you could add either pH up or pH down. These are chemicals sold at places like Home Depot or any Gardening store. They usually come in one liter bottles and are to be diluted in the water used to water the soil growing plants or the Hydroponic reservoir according to directions on the packaging.

Some examples of Home remedies to raise/lower pH are as follows:
1.Lemon juice. 1/4 tbsp can bring a gallon of tap-water from 7.4 to 6.3.
2.Phosphoric acid. lowers pH and provides Phosphor too!
3.Nitric acid. lowers pH.
4.Hydrochloric acid. strongest way to lower pH
5.Hydrated lime. flush soil with a teaspoon per gallon of water to raise pH.
6.Baking Soda. eats acids to raise pH.
7.Calcium carbonate. raises pH (very strong)
8.Potassium silicate. raises pH.

What are signs of a PH fluctuation in my Cannabis plant?

A Cannabis plant can show signs of a pH flux in several ways. The leaves may begin to turn yellow or brown, dry up and/or shrivel on the sides into a straw like shape. Keep in mind however that other deficiencies and disorders may show the same signs of damage, so don't jump to conclusions until you do some testing and adjusting to your plants and their growing medium.

Some things to remember(I didn't write these ones)

1.Always test the pH of raw water and drainage water with a pH meter.
2.Raw water pH above 6.0 helps keep fertilizer mixes from becoming too acidic.
3.The pH level is much more important in organic soil gardens than in chemical
hydroponic gardens. The pH dictates the environment of bacteria necessary to the
uptake of organic nutrients.


I hope I helped at least one or two people.
~GigZ-16

So now I am confused. You're saying to not add ph UP solution, but rather fertilize with one of the Fox Farm products depending on what stage (vegetative or flowering) the plant is in?

Please post your schedule.

Bob

the ph up is for when you mix your nute solution. nutes will mostly lower the ph of the water/nute mix. now if those numbers you gave are the soil`s run off on each plant the ph up solution isn`t for that you need lime to raise ph in soil. find the stage yours are in and mix 1/4 of what is says to be carefull with fox farm it can burn to. less is better.


a weekly schedual (dirt & hydro IF you change the water weekly) and Phasic feeding for bubblers.
Phasic shedules can be followed for soil-- but do not work as well!

ALL MEASURES ARE PER U.S. GALLON...
Hope this helps!!!


EDITED NOTE FOR PHASIC FEEDINGS!!!
Unless your Nutes specific schedule tells you what to do for sprouting and seedling, you need to cut back on the nutes for that stage BEFORE youconsider it to be "phase one"
Week ONE is NOT as soon as they are sprouted and have leaves! Week one is after they have 4 sets of true leaves---
Start your new seedlings in JUST Ph adjusted water (can use hydrogard & superthrive)
When they get their 3rd set of leaves--add HALF of the amound called for in phase 1 of your phasic schedule--
When they open another 2 sets of leaves (fully!) then add the other 1/2 to bring it to the amount required for "Phase 1" this will greatly reduce the possibility of nute-burn or over feeding...and allows the babies to adjust to the nutes easier.
Thanx!


NOTE ABOUT FLUSHING!!!
If growing in Soil, you usually Start flushing (running clear water thru the soil to rince out the un-used nutes) 2 weeks prior to harvest. This is nessisary to force the plant to use it's stored nutes & protiens, that otherwise result in harsh or grassy product.
But flushing also OFTEN results in losing yield; since you will reduce the available nutrients to the plant during the last 2 weeks of growth when the plants usually put on the most weight.
Simply STOP Nuting at whatever week you are at when time to flush.
IF you use the Ememrgency flush method, follow the entire schedule until the plants are ready to harvest.

FOX FARMS FEEDING SCHEDULES


WEEKLY FEEDING- per Gallon
Sprouting and week 1--BigBloom 2TBS
week 2-- 2tsp Grow Big + 2TBS Big Bloom
Week 3--3tsp Grow Big + 2TBS Big Bloom
Week 4--JUST 3 tspGrow Big + 1/4 tsp Open Sesame
Week 5 same as week 4 unless going 12/12--

Week 5- OR--day 1 of 12/12-- 2 tsp Tiger Bloom +1TBS Big Bloom + 1/2 tsp Open Sesame
Week 6--same as above
Week 7-- 2 Tsp Grow Big + 2 tsp Tiger Bloom +1TBS Big Bloom + 1/4 tsp Beastie Bloom
Week 8-- 2Tsp Grow Big + 2 tsp Tiger Bloom +1TBS Big Bloom + 1/2 tsp Beastie Bloom
Week 9-- 2 tsp Tiger Bloom +1TBS Big Bloom + 1/4 tsp Cha Ching
week 10-- Same as above
Week 11--2 tsp Tiger Bloom +1TBS Big Bloom + 1/2 tsp Cha Ching


At beginning of week 11--Check Trichomes-- Flush if ready.. otherwise, continue as with week 11 every week until you flush!


Also recomended--but not a nessesity--
Bush Doctor Sledgehammer (prevents lock-out)
use 2 drops per gallon of water between feedings starting in week 4 of 12/12



PHASIC SHEDULE: (per gallon)
(follow this for bubblers, OR you can use these amounts when watering in soilbut is not as good as the weekly schedule for soil!)

New Clones, or when seedlings get 3 sets of leaves- 1tsp Grow Big + 2tsp Big Bloom
Week 3 of veg (unless going 12/12) ADD 1tsp Grow big + 2 tsp Big Bloom
4 Days Before going 12/12- Add ¼ tsp Open Sesame
Day 1 of 12/12 Drain Reservoir & refill. Add 2 tsp Tiger Bloom + 1TBS Big Bloom + ½ tsp Open Sesame
Week 3 of 12/12Add ¼ tsp Beastie Bloom
Week 5 of 12/12Drain and refill reservoir Add 2 tsp Grow Big + 1 tsp Tiger bloom + 1 TBS Big Bloom + ¼ tsp Cha ching
3-5 Days Before harvest-- Drain and refill reservoir add 2 drops Sledgehammer


keep the res filled in between feedings with ph adjusted water--



The reasonFox Farms doesn't list nutes for weeks 2 & 4 is that it ASSUMES your res won't go down, so you won't NEED any additional nutes (if your res stays full- great!)..
but if the plants are pretty big, or the room is warm/dry-- they can need refilling up to 3-4x a week!!! The chart doesn't take that into account--
Remember-- feed AT MOST 1x each week-- only water in-between!
Use additional nutes from week one at 1/2 rate until in flower (between recomended feeds) then in flower-- for additional feeds, use the nutes from the 1st week of flower at 1/2 rate in between...again--NEVER feed more than 1x a week!

Bubblers MAY use the weekly Schedules-- BUT ONLY if you use an ec/ppm meter to keep the levels where they should be....
an ec around 1.2-1.5 in veg.. then 1.5 -1.7 in flower unlitt the last 2-3 weeks... then can go as high as 2.0. Watch yor plants! they'll tell you if you are over/under feeding!


source: smokin moose

No one local carries the Fox Farm products, though I may go with the Earth Juice or Botanicare lines. I'll have to see when I visit a store tomorrow.

Any thoughts on mixing product from different lines?

Also I have applied lime to raise the pH before. My plants will require watering in another day. Can I add water, lime and fertilize the same day?

My gut instinct is to lime and water, then fertilize at the next watering. Your thoughts?

i use the botanicare and swear by it. fox farm is good to but i feel over priced. earth juice is also good i have tried it in the past.
i also have a feed schedule for the botanicare and earth juce products. i think mixing the 2 lines may be ok as long as you stay true organic, there is also man made organic.

i would think you would be ok to do both but i haven`t used lime in water so i cant say for sure if it matters i`m sure someone will answer that here. mabee try a bit of lime water in it first then feed mix of nutes and then finish with lime water. i do that sometime to dilute my nute mix in the begining so it`s not getting all nutes but some straight water to

@bonz

So I wound up liming the plants and watering last night. They needed the H2O.

I picked up the Earth Juice line today: Grow, Bloom, Catalyst, and Microblast. If you have a feeding schedule, I'd love to see it. I will probably have to wait until next week for application, as the plants will still be moist.

miracle grow soil has slow release nutes in it could be part of the reason you orginally burned it. any of the new stuff i would suggest using at only a 1/4 strengh and then upping it every week. the 2 flushes you did should have gotten most of the slow release out by now but i just wanted to give that tip since had the same problem with miracle grow.

dont know if i can find all of it right now but heres a start. it`s been a while since iv`e used it so it may take a little diggin. and like he said use 1/4 mix to start like you are supposed to with any nutes. i`m sure there is a simple version on the bottles and the site.

What is Earthjuice catalyst?
Derived From Oat Bran, Kelp and other organic ingredients. Listed by OMRI for organic production. Stimulates growth and production. CATALYST offers an array of natural occurring enzymes, hormones, vitamins, amino acids, nutrients, sugars, plant acids and surfactants (wetting aids) that will aid in stimulating plant growth and production. It can be applied by watering in as an additive, or used as a foliar feed. Improves growing mediums, encourages compact growth, increases yields, improves synthetic, organic fertilizers, and teas.

Earth Juice Catalyst foliar feeding instructions:
* The best temperature is about 72 degrees (when stomata on the underside of the leaves are open); at over 80, they may not be open at all. So, find the cooler part of the day if it is hot and the warmer part of the day if it is cold out.

* Use a good quality sprayer -- should atomise the solution to a very fine mist.

* Always be sure your light is off and cool before foliar feeding! For extra safety, wipe your bulb with a dry cloth after spraying and make sure H.I.D lights are raised to a safe distance (double the distance is a good rule of thumb) to prevent burning.

* Make sure the PH is between 7 and 6.2.

* Spray leaf surface -- the tops and the undersides -- until the liquid begins to drip off the leaves. Stop spraying 2 weeks before harvest -- use sparingly on bud sites.

* Dispose of excess spray after 3 days storage.

* Let mix stand for 24hrs before feeding.

* Spray one time a week every week.

* Use 4 tsp per litre.

Per gallon of water for budding:
1 tablespoon Earth Juice Bloom
1 teaspoon Earth Juice Grow (for the first couple of weeks, only if it’s a long flowering strain)
1 tablespoon MaxiCrop

If you don't/can't get Earth Juice you can use a tea made of bat guano / castings as a fine substitute.

Let this mix in a reservoir at least 24 hours, and feed. This time top it up with plain water till it's full. It will still have some flavor of course since it's in the same container and you shouldn't drain it all the way. Keep it mixing at all times. Next time add fert... alternate with water, cut out the grow half way through, harvest, cure, smoke, get high!

The circulating reservoir is the key to using those indoor organics efficiently. I don't use Fox Farm anymore, silly to pay 4 times as much as the EJ. When mixed straight into water, the Earth Juice bloom drops the pH to the mid 4's. The solution is to let it circulate and aerate for at least 24 hours. The best way to do it is with a permanent reservoir-- a large bucket or trough that is always filled with water. There should be one large pump in there that is always on and circulating the solution. I also throw in some air wands on a pump, but thats not a big deal. As long as its mixing it will work. Hook the pump up with a Y so that one branch is always mixing the tank and then the other branch can be a long hose for your watering wand. You don't re-use the drained water, just toss it on your backyard garden.

As the reservoir circulates, it starts the breakdown of the nutrients and the pH will rise. Like I said previously, with this system there is no need to check the pH ever-- just keep the reservoir circulating and the mix has loads of buffering capacity. You only need to add liquid ferts every other or every third watering.

source: smokin moose

i will keep looking, i know i have somthing else saved in here somewere.

So why not just foliar spray all the time?

I can see mixing the EJ recipe below at a quarter strength (1/4 tablespoon EJ Bloom, 1/4 teaspoon EJ Grow, 1/4 tablespoon Maxicrop, and 1 teaspoon Catalyst) per gallon. Test the pH of the solution, and add Up or Down to adjust. Add solution to sprayer and then spray.

If the above is a workable solution, then do I need to use the full gallon, or just spray on the surface as described below and save the unused quantity for the next feeding?

you need to feed the roots to. the foliar feeds the leaves more so.
sure use the same mix