wtf is up

We raise animals for food. I'm not getting into a debate about that whole industry. But that is different than calling open season on feral cats.

There are no laws that you must have your animals "fixed". There are lots of regulations in various communities: can't have chickens or roosters in certain areas of town, limited to a certain number of pets without a facility license or whatever. If you have issue with laws, take it up with your community.

But again - owning intact animals, breeding, and so on - there are generally no laws beyond perhaps licensing, and this is true of many businesses. If you want intact animals, you can easily get them - there are no laws against this. If you want to breed, you can do that - there are no laws against this.

Many people and groups that deal with the over-population and killing of unwanted pets on a daily basis do what they can to address the problem including spay/neuter contracts. They see the problem every day - why should they add to the problem? There are plenty of other resources if you don't agree to the contract. These low-paid workers and volunteers get all sorts of shit because of their "beliefs", yet all they believe is that there's a dozen animals in the back right now that could get healthy and recover with some loving care but their sniffles are contagious so they are not put out with the other animals, and over crowding means that they are simply on death row for 48-hours in case an owner turns up looking for a lost pet.

unohu69 said:

I understand some people really feel the need to "make the world a better place" but really... nothing has really been done to make the world a better place.... ever.
humans at a base level are flawed. You may be able to alter a small portion of it, or control a small group, but the planets inhabitants have always been the same.


just as some people will get where your coming from, so will a few get what im saying.

keep in mind, im not arguing with you, quite the contrary actually. just making a point to consider in the discussion. Its healthy to keep an open mind and question even your own beliefs.

Click to expand...

Wow, that's really sad. "Humans are flawed. Change something, but it matters little because nothing we do will make things better." That doesn't seem like an open mind. Why question anything when everything just leads to the same hopelessness that is humanity?

I really wish more people wouldn't be so pessimistic and at least try. You know, like that 26 acts thing, or volunteer at an animal shelter - work at a food bank, feed and cloth the sick or homeless, even teach the homeless to shoot a bow and arrow for all that feral cat hunting they do.

exactly, all you can do is live to be happy and try to help those around you.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.


the difference here is you will never convince everybody that what you say is right. thats all im saying.
I understand population control and attempting to be responsible, hell i myself got sniped, why? cuz it was the right thing to do for ME.

I agree for some people it should be an act of responsibility. not forced. ignorance is solved through education. sadly, we will never get everybody on the same page.


Even if we had aliens coming to invade us, there would be a small faction of humans working with them... (im not suggesting that any of those conspiracy's are true lol)

yes im not very hopeful for the human race as a whole.. its obvious to me. if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, well.. its dinner...

Kind of a case in point....

i know how you people are about facebook.....


“A man sat at a metro station in Washington DC and started to play the violin; it was a cold January morning. He played six Bach pieces for about 45 minutes. During that time, since it was rush hour, it was calculated that 1,100 people went through the station, most of them on their way to work.

Three minutes went by, and a middle aged man noticed there was musician playing. He slowed his pace, and stopped for a few seconds, and then hurried up to meet his schedule.

A minute later, the violinist received his first dollar tip: a woman threw the money in the till and without stopping, and continued to walk.

A few minutes later, someone leaned against the wall to listen to him, but the man looked at his watch and started to walk again. Clearly he was late for work.

The one who paid the most attention was a 3 year old boy. His mother tagged him along, hurried, but the kid stopped to look at the violinist. Finally, the mother pushed hard, and the child continued to walk, turning his head all the time. This action was repeated by several other children. All the parents, without exception, forced them to move on.

In the 45 minutes the musician played, only 6 people stopped and stayed for a while. About 20 gave him money, but continued to walk their normal pace. He collected $32. When he finished playing and silence took over, no one noticed it. No one applauded, nor was there any recognition.

No one knew this, but the violinist was Joshua Bell, one of the most talented musicians in the world. He had just played one of the most intricate pieces ever written, on a violin worth $3.5 million dollars.

Two days before his playing in the subway, Joshua Bell sold out at a theater in Boston where the seats averaged $100.

This is a real story. Joshua Bell playing incognito in the metro station was organized by the Washington Post as part of a social experiment about perception, taste, and priorities of people.

The outlines were: in a commonplace environment at an inappropriate hour: Do we perceive beauty? Do we stop to appreciate it? Do we recognize the talent in an unexpected context?

One of the possible conclusions from this experience could be: If we do not have a moment to stop and listen to one of the best musicians in the world playing the best music ever written, how many other things are we missing?”

unohu69 said:

the difference here is you will never convince everybody that what you say is right.

Click to expand...

My goal is not to convince everyone.

I understand population control and attempting to be responsible, hell i myself got sniped, why? cuz it was the right thing to do for ME.

I agree for some people it should be an act of responsibility. not forced. ignorance is solved through education. sadly, we will never get everybody on the same page.

Click to expand...

And that's my goal - education. I've been presenting facts, links, a perspective from the side of those who deal with disposable-pets, and so on. The people who work and volunteer in the shelters and rescue groups are (or at least should be) after the same thing. Now some might do it poorly and some might even seem like fanatics or whatnot.

These people and these groups try to contribute to the overall problem as little as they can. Again, I mention spay/neuter contracts and whatnot. People outside of the pet euthanasia industry seem to be in denial about this issue, say there is nothing that we can do, or whine about how beliefs are forced on them.

While many of those who work with animals do it for love and have strong beliefs, I again say that the current attempts at a solution through a spay/neuter campaign is not a matter of "beliefs". There are reasons behind it which can be seen in any number of pictures and articles I can Google and post here, in any number of stories from shelter workers and volunteers, and in any tour of WalMart parking lots on the weekends.

People are in an uproar about gun laws and potential changes to them. But nobody is proposing laws forcing you to spay and neuter your animals. A contract is an agreement - if you don't agree, nobody is forcing you into it - you are free to take your business elsewhere.

unohu69 said:

Kind of a case in point....

i know how you people are about facebook.....

Click to expand...

How are we about that? Serious question. I really don't know.

This is a real story. Joshua Bell playing incognito in the metro station was organized by the Washington Post as part of a social experiment about perception, taste, and priorities of people.

The outlines were: in a commonplace environment at an inappropriate hour: Do we perceive beauty? Do we stop to appreciate it? Do we recognize the talent in an unexpected context?

One of the possible conclusions from this experience could be: If we do not have a moment to stop and listen to one of the best musicians in the world playing the best music ever written, how many other things are we missing?”

Click to expand...

Thank you for that, really. I agree with the conclusion. I'm not sure what that has to do with spay/neuter, though. I'm also not sure I believe that story as is. Oh, how I miss the city -seen plenty of street performers in my time. I think he would get more recognition and the author exaggerated the passer-bys. However, anyone - even a master - can have a bad day for tips. The other (sad) factor is - how many people didn't give a shit because he wasn't Bieber or Psy or some other latest hit/fad/whatever.

So now we're both off topic.

facebook phobia, the cia is tracking you, they need to know what you ate for dinner, and what time your meeting your friends at the bars. A significant portion of the net users avoid FB at all costs, and wouldnt click a FB link.


The violinist story was just a point that people are oblivious to the beauty that surrounds us everywhere. Sometimes that beauty is in the music they dont hear, sometimes its in a puppy dog they dont see.
Im a huge dog fan. i love dogs im trying get one soon as i can. I miss my rotti (technically my moms, but you know how it is). she was a excellent german rotti, had a bunch of grand champions in her line. paid a lot for her. and we had her fixed before she ever had a litter. so like i said, i know what your saying. its been a few yrs, i want another. i probly will not get the new one fixed, not sure if im goin male or female.. jus have to wait and see what one i click with.

cheechako said:

We kill 3-4 million cats and dogs every year because of people who don't want to or don't believe in spaying and neutering. That girl who gave you shit probably sees animals put down every day because they have the sniffles and the kennels are over-crowded.

If you want to breed, then pay the premium for a documented genetic history and blood-line. If you want a loving pet, please don't add any more to the huge problem of unwanted pets.

Click to expand...

If you haven't noticed, they were both males...and wouldn't adopting that dog be a good thing considering he could be next to be put down and it's freeing up space?

Trolling said:

If you haven't noticed, they were both males...and wouldn't adopting that dog be a good thing considering he could be next to be put down and it's freeing up space?

Click to expand...

I have no idea why two males would prevent either one from running around the neighborhood and doing what male dogs will do.

You might say that you would never let your dogs do that. Well, good for you! The shelter deals with the results from the idiots that don't give a shit, and the regulations are probably targeted at them.

So yes, he might be put down next. But if he is released intact, he could easily return ten-fold. It is not as simple as saving one dog when the goal is to put a huge dent in the millions of pets we kill every year.

Dogs aren't prone to run off like cats which is why I see nothing but cats roaming the streets. I believe in neutering and spaying but in this situation, she was in the wrong.

Trolling said:

Dogs aren't prone to run off like cats which is why I see nothing but cats roaming the streets. I believe in neutering and spaying but in this situation, she was in the wrong.

Click to expand...

There is a good chance that the shelter regulations dictate what she is able to do. Without knowing for certain, I would hate to put the blame on her. I already said that if she was rude about it, it would have been wrong of her.

However, in my community, her hands would be tied. She would have to refuse the adoption because of the shelter's regulations. She is just some bottom-rung county employee. I think that perhaps, instead of telling her to go screw herself (as the OP did), it would be best to take up any complaints with the city council or whatever body oversees the local shelter, or at least the shelter manager.

It could be against the rules to allow it but all people would have to say (if they asks this) is no, this is there first pet, would be too easy of a loophole to really make this a rule I think. When my dog died last year, my mom took her to a shelter to umm."dispose" the corpse (they burn them in a pile) sad but it's just reality. Anway, I was upset and for some reason she thought it would be a good idea to get this Chihuahua she seen that was about to be turned in but wasn't neutered and she just asked the lady of she could take him off her hands, I wasn't there so I dunno if it happened in the parking lot or inside, but nobody said anything about it. I wish she didn't, only because I wanted to pick out my own choice, plus I don't care for small dogs. I wouldn't mind tho if he did have to get neutered but don't plan to since I don't see the point to pay for it, I often let him out to use the restroom and he always stays in the yard and comes back when I tell him to get inside, plus the no stray dogs thing.

Now if I happen to get or if I had a female that wasn't fixed then yeah I could see that situation to do that, which wouldn't happen since I only get rescue dogs anyway. Not only because it's the right thing to do but I'm not paying 3-500+ for a dog lol.

cheechako said:

I have no idea why two males would prevent either one from running around the neighborhood and doing what male dogs will do.

You might say that you would never let your dogs do that. Well, good for you! The shelter deals with the results from the idiots that don't give a shit, and the regulations are probably targeted at them.


So yes, he might be put down next. But if he is released intact, he could easily return ten-fold. It is not as simple as saving one dog when the goal is to put a huge dent in the millions of pets we kill every year.

Click to expand...

do you think the "people that dont give a shit" that let their dogs run around would give a shit about having they fixed? Fuck no. But the media and vets are telling everyone to egt their animals fixed. Im pretty sure the only people that are listening to the argument and really considering options are the people who are responsible pet owners and wouldnt just let their dog run loose. Like myself, But I wouldnt get my teddy bear fixed. Or any other dog for that matter. Unless I had a male and female together then yes, one of them is getting fixed.

either way almost ALL shelters make you sign a contract that you spay or neuter, dont like it dont get an animal from there.

Trolling said:

It could be against the rules to allow it but all people would have to say (if they asks this) is no, this is there first pet, would be too easy of a loophole to really make this a rule I think. When my dog died last year, my mom took her to a shelter to umm."dispose" the corpse (they burn them in a pile) sad but it's just reality. Anway, I was upset and for some reason she thought it would be a good idea to get this Chihuahua she seen that was about to be turned in but wasn't neutered and she just asked the lady of she could take him off her hands, I wasn't there so I dunno if it happened in the parking lot or inside, but nobody said anything about it. I wish she didn't, only because I wanted to pick out my own choice, plus I don't care for small dogs. I wouldn't mind tho if he did have to get neutered but don't plan to since I don't see the point to pay for it, I often let him out to use the restroom and he always stays in the yard and comes back when I tell him to get inside, plus the no stray dogs thing.

Now if I happen to get or if I had a female that wasn't fixed then yeah I could see that situation to do that, which wouldn't happen since I only get rescue dogs anyway. Not only because it's the right thing to do but I'm not paying 3-500+ for a dog lol.

Click to expand...

interesting here they dont burn them, they have a "farmer" the bodies go to meaning they become animal food yeap pretty gross eh

anyone giving away a free border collie? ?

i know exactly what you mean, i wanted to adopt a dog one time, went to the shelter and found one i really liked then they informed me that there is a waiting period, and i was cool with that but wen they told me it would $120 for the adoption fees + neutering, i ask them how much just the fees were they informed me that you could not adopt one without having it neutered. I explained how my back yard is fenced off and my brothers dog was also a male so unless they were trying to sell me a gay dog, which still wouldn't be an issue since that still leaves breading impossible, everything would be ok. They then explained how the $120 fee was also to ensure that anyone who adopted the dog has the $ to afford it,... so basically if you could afford it you wont be able to by the time you leave lol.

So it cost 120$ to buy one of there "used dogs" that they are having to feed and shelter, then kill and dispose of. I would think they would be giving them away to anyone who wanted them.

Anyways after all that i was exhausted with the whole trying to do the good thing, and just went and bought a "new dog" from a breeder. It costs about double but you get papers, strong traits, and far less health issues from my experience. Its too sad when one dies to do it more than once every 15 years or so.

unohu69 said:

Kind of a case in point....
“A man sat at a metro station in Washington DC and started to play the violin; it was a cold January morning. He played six Bach pieces for about 45 minutes. During that time, since it was rush hour, it was calculated that 1,100 people went through the station, most of them on their way to work.

Three minutes went by, and a middle aged man noticed there was musician playing. He slowed his pace, and stopped for a few seconds, and then hurried up to meet his schedule.

A minute later, the violinist received his first dollar tip: a woman threw the money in the till and without stopping, and continued to walk.

A few minutes later, someone leaned against the wall to listen to him, but the man looked at his watch and started to walk again. Clearly he was late for work.

The one who paid the most attention was a 3 year old boy. His mother tagged him along, hurried, but the kid stopped to look at the violinist. Finally, the mother pushed hard, and the child continued to walk, turning his head all the time. This action was repeated by several other children. All the parents, without exception, forced them to move on.

In the 45 minutes the musician played, only 6 people stopped and stayed for a while. About 20 gave him money, but continued to walk their normal pace. He collected $32. When he finished playing and silence took over, no one noticed it. No one applauded, nor was there any recognition.

No one knew this, but the violinist was Joshua Bell, one of the most talented musicians in the world. He had just played one of the most intricate pieces ever written, on a violin worth $3.5 million dollars.

Two days before his playing in the subway, Joshua Bell sold out at a theater in Boston where the seats averaged $100.

This is a real story. Joshua Bell playing incognito in the metro station was organized by the Washington Post as part of a social experiment about perception, taste, and priorities of people.

The outlines were: in a commonplace environment at an inappropriate hour: Do we perceive beauty? Do we stop to appreciate it? Do we recognize the talent in an unexpected context?

One of the possible conclusions from this experience could be: If we do not have a moment to stop and listen to one of the best musicians in the world playing the best music ever written, how many other things are we missing?”

Click to expand...

You know what i got to say about that?
$35 in less then an hour is not bad.

the difference between your "it is what it is" fuck it. stance.
and the stance of people pushing spay and neutering is.
That they are actively trying to "fix" the problem, or at least help fight the problem.
While your Live and let live stance, brings nothing to the table, and helps no one.
At least they are trying to fix the problem.

People like you offer no solutions.
Just complain and criticize the solutions of others who are trying to help.


I personally wouldn't have a problem getting myself "fixed".
And others should do the same when they are ready.
the world dosnt need any more un-wanted, or half ass parents either.

only reason i havent yet, is because i dont want to find "the one" only for that to be a deal breaker.
as soon as i settle down, and im ready, i will probally follow suit, and get myself fixed as well.
One less thing to worry about.
(my response to the "why do it to a dog if you wouldnt do it")

hahaha, ok, um, what was the question again..??

out of that whole story your concerned with the money? that wasnt the point.
I dont have to bring anything to a table that doesnt have a problem. its a perceived problem due to human emotions. and if your rant is any indication, you dont have a very good hold on yours.

you obviously have not checked out the" what would you do if money was no object" thread, i offer a cpl ideas there that could possibly solve some issues..
but ya, you're right, im a jack ass who only thinks about himself..(did you catch the hint of sarcasm there?)

the offer to spay/neuter should be there, and educating people as to why it is a good idea is fine n dandy.. didnt say it wasnt. but trying to force some one to do it.. naaah, no thanks.

sunni said:

either way almost ALL shelters make you sign a contract that you spay or neuter, dont like it dont get an animal from there.



interesting here they dont burn them, they have a "farmer" the bodies go to meaning they become animal food yeap pretty gross eh

Click to expand...

Some shelters will do it there, I don't mind it tbh, it doesn't make them any less of a dog and I understand the overall point but my main post was about the OP situation, he never said he didn't mind the dog be was about to adopt from there would be fixed but judging someone just because they happen to have a dog with balls that the shelter has no buisness of accusing is what the main problem, especially them both being males.




Do they feed the animals to dogs and cats????! That would be fucked up on so many levels, rather have my dog burned to ashes than fed to another animal. I'm not religious at all but that would churn my stomach.

I personally wouldn't have a problem getting myself "fixed".

only reason i havent yet, is because i dont want to find "the one" only for that to be a deal breaker.


Contradictive much?

ever since i got my staffordshire i just fell in love with all pitbull like dogs, they are so powerful yet so kind, well if they have a good owner...