You control who you are, what you say, and what you do.

Yes, (everyone of us.. or most of us...) has control over our words...whether lies or truth or something else.... We Also have control over what we do. And this is what defines us.
... Well, sort of ...... Obviously we don't have control over life, so technically that is the other (probably 50%) of what makes us who we are.




....

You control who you are, what you say and what you do.

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Yeep... I'm sure I wrote that down for a good reason....

Not to take away from personal responsibility/accountability, but you're presuming that we have free will. A lot of recent neuroscience and physics points to data that we do not, i.e. the future existing simultaneously along with the past and present, and us becoming conscious of our decisions fractions of a second after they occur...

tyler.durden said:

Not to take away from personal responsibility/accountability, but you're presuming that we have free will. A lot of recent neuroscience and physics points to data that we do not, i.e. the future existing simultaneously along with the past and present, and us becoming conscious of our decisions fractions of a second after they occur...

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That's pretty sweet, TD! I'm gonna read up on that;

OP; The standard model of determinism says that we have the illusion of free will. We do make decisions, but the choices we make are essentially the only choice we could have possibly made with all the variables of the universe being how they were. For example, let's pretend there's an entity (GOD) for this example, that is independent of time. This means God can stop, start, rewind, etc., time at will without it affecting him. No one else in existence would have knowledge of this, and whatever action they were doing at the time would resume normally.

Let's say you're headed to the store to buy a drink. While you're standing in front of the coolers, you decide you want a coke. So, you open the door and grab a can of coke. Now, god watching from above says "Whoa, I want to see if he'd change his mind to a different drink if I rewind him", so he rewinds time appox 5 seconds and lets it resume.

Here's where determinism gets neat IMO! Every atom, every molecule, everything we can see, and not see, literally EVERYTHING in existence would be rewound to the place it was before. Your thoughts would be the same, every piece of information you have in your brain would be identical, so how could you possibly choose a different drink? A different choice would require a different set of variables in the universe, which if everything was rewound; all variables would be identical.

From the moment space and time began, you were going to get a coke at that exact time, at that exact place and there is no other possibility that could have taken place in this existence.

tyler.durden said:

Not to take away from personal responsibility/accountability, but you're presuming that we have free will. A lot of recent neuroscience and physics points to data that we do not, i.e. the future existing simultaneously along with the past and present, and us becoming conscious of our decisions fractions of a second after they occur...

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Free will is proportionate to liberated consciousness, imo. If the gen-pop uses approximately 10% of the brain (mind) then it follows that 90% of their activities stem from the unconscious.

eye exaggerate said:

Free will is proportionate to liberated consciousness, imo. If the gen-pop uses approximately 10% of the brain (mind) then it follows that 90% of their activities stem from the unconscious.

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First off its a myth that people use 10% Of their brains...

Secondly if you were right and 90% is taken up by the subconscious then it would still be in the brain meaning they're using 100% anyway

In the words of your fav scientist Pauli 'It is not even wrong.'

Highlowazupkush said:

Yes, (everyone of us.. or most of us...) has control over our words...whether lies or truth or something else.... We Also have control over what we do. And this is what defines us.
... Well, sort of ...... Obviously we don't have control over life, so technically that is the other (probably 50%) of what makes us who we are.



....




Yeep... I'm sure I wrote that down for a good reason....

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say external forced are 50% Of who you are. As while you cannot control what happens you are ultimately in charge of how you react to it

Pulling a number out of my arse I'd put external forces in the single digits>10% IMO

Uh oh...
Were talking about the fundamentals & foundation of life here guys..
I think we should leave this be.. 'cause people tend to get iffy on this matter.

ginjawarrior said:

First off its a myth that people use 10% Of their brains...

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Well, you did get this post out - lol

(jk dude)

Beefbisquit said:

That's pretty sweet, TD! I'm gonna read up on that;

OP; The standard model of determinism says that we have the illusion of free will. We do make decisions, but the choices we make are essentially the only choice we could have possibly made with all the variables of the universe being how they were. For example, let's pretend there's an entity (GOD) for this example, that is independent of time. This means God can stop, start, rewind, etc., time at will without it affecting him. No one else in existence would have knowledge of this, and whatever action they were doing at the time would resume normally.

Let's say you're headed to the store to buy a drink. While you're standing in front of the coolers, you decide you want a coke. So, you open the door and grab a can of coke. Now, god watching from above says "Whoa, I want to see if he'd change his mind to a different drink if I rewind him", so he rewinds time appox 5 seconds and lets it resume.

Here's where determinism gets neat IMO! Every atom, every molecule, everything we can see, and not see, literally EVERYTHING in existence would be rewound to the place it was before. Your thoughts would be the same, every piece of information you have in your brain would be identical, so how could you possibly choose a different drink? A different choice would require a different set of variables in the universe, which if everything was rewound; all variables would be identical.

From the moment space and time began, you were going to get a coke at that exact time, at that exact place and there is no other possibility that could have taken place in this existence.

Click to expand...

How does that rule out free will? If I flip a coin and it lands on heads, and god rewinds time to before I flipped, and I grab the coin and reflip it....are you saying it is predetermined to land on heads for this specific flip? Or will rewinding it and reflipping it reset the odds? Is it possible that it will land on tails this time? Or are the odds of landing on any given heads/tails already predetermined and it's simply an illusion that it seems to be a 50% random chance?

Unless you answer to a higher power, like me.
Allah tells me what to do

HeadieNugz said:

Unless you answer to a higher power, like me.
Allah tells me what to do

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Zaehet Strife said:

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That would be profoundly relevant,
And probably make you feel super good about yourself in a smug, pious way for having demerited Monotheistic rhetoric... IF;
#1 You weren't being a such a hypocrite while doing so, pushing Atheistic dogma tantamount to the same actions being criticized with said quote &;
#2 I was clearly being sarcastic.
#3 Other than the initial assumption of my seriousness in the statement, it's voraciously presumptive, the least manners of which are concerning the following:
-That i am muslim
-That my parents are muslim
-That i believe this religion to be "the right one" as Mr. Dawkins so eloquently put it.

Allah wins, as he is the true god and is right in all things

^
There, just pretend like i said that before you Misquoted Dawkins, that way you can sleep a bit better tonight.

I would have personally gone with Epicurus's riddle, though less effective as it's geared towards a Judeo-Christian god it conveys the point.
I love that it was taken from Facebook btw, just try finding me on that pitiful black-hole for intellect and productivity.
I Lol'd. Lol'd hard.

guy incognito said:

How does that rule out free will? If I flip a coin and it lands on heads, and god rewinds time to before I flipped, and I grab the coin and reflip it....are you saying it is predetermined to land on heads for this specific flip? Or will rewinding it and reflipping it reset the odds? Is it possible that it will land on tails this time? Or are the odds of landing on any given heads/tails already predetermined and it's simply an illusion that it seems to be a 50% random chance?

Click to expand...

The odds will not be reset. You will flip the coin in the exact same manner, the wind will do the exact same thing, the magnetic field of the earth will be identical, ad nauseum.

If everything is predetermined (not predestined; big difference as one suggests divine intervention) how could we really have free will? In reality it's just an illusion; IF determinism is true.

Determinism, yes. But here's the physics behind what I was referring to (sorry, I know I've posted it before) -

[video=youtube;j-u1aaltiq4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-u1aaltiq4[/video]

Here's a couple links about how we become aware of our decisions after they've already been made -

http://exploringthemind.com/the-mind/brain-scans-can-reveal-your-decisions-7-seconds-before-you-decide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will

So, if the future already exists, and our conscious minds aren't making our decisions, what role could free will play?

HeadieNugz said:

That would be profoundly relevant,
And probably make you feel super good about yourself in a smug, pious way for having demerited Monotheistic rhetoric... IF;
#1 You weren't being a such a hypocrite while doing so, pushing Atheistic dogma tantamount to the same actions being criticized with said quote &;
#2 I was clearly being sarcastic.
#3 Other than the initial assumption of my seriousness in the statement, it's voraciously presumptive, the least manners of which are concerning the following:
-That i am muslim
-That my parents are muslim
-That i believe this religion to be "the right one" as Mr. Dawkins so eloquently put it.

Allah wins, as he is the true god and is right in all things

^
There, just pretend like i said that before you Misquoted Dawkins, that way you can sleep a bit better tonight.

I would have personally gone with Epicurus's riddle, though less effective as it's geared towards a Judeo-Christian god it conveys the point.
I love that it was taken from Facebook btw, just try finding me on that pitiful black-hole for intellect and productivity.
I Lol'd. Lol'd hard.

Click to expand...

I posted the meme with the assumption that your comment was a mockery to begin with.

As he quotes, almost everyone has the same spiritual beliefs as their parents. I think everyone else who doesn't, just picked whatever one they personally liked best. /shrug

Allah is just as good a god as any other god humans made up.

In any case, Allah for the win... lol.

Same shit as rooting for the fucking home team to win... absurd, no point, no reason other than a simple dimwitted bias preference...



...but isn't existence absurd anyways? Who knows?

Looks like we got a lot of people rooting for their home teams too.

Zaehet Strife said:

Looks like we got a lot of people rooting for their home teams too.

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If they don't win it's a shame

FSM FTW lol

But what if you're the God that you perceive as an outside source, and your 'now' is simply the two dimensional universe that you are creating?

I once had a thought, not knowing much about physics that our universe was just a power source. We all spark and perish. Over and over. From organism to galaxy. Over the course of billions/trillions of years of time, there would have been enough energy stored into the ultimate black hole that is the whole universe at the end of time and space collected to power one whole universe for eternity.

Odd thought.. I probably sound completely nuts sorry I am stoned out of my mind.

Also I remember once that I was watching a video made by that guy on string theory talking about how two strings expand into a membrane and when they hit each other it causes a pulse that would create a universe. Then I thought that maybe it hits at billions of points at once and the universes being created are the consciousness itself.

Double slit shows that consciousness changes the behavior of physical objects, so consciousness must mean something right?

People are either for the god complex or against it. Similar to how some are democrat or republican. A lot of people are very one sided about it and I don't understand how you could even trust your measly human brain to come up with an assumption about all of this because it is very obviously not clear to us what-so-ever.
I like to believe all of this is here for a reason, however with the harshness of reality, it seems as if you really are nothing but a cell to something greater. And in death you would rot in the ground. And is this bad? I don't think so. Life is enough, on your death bed, I am sure that it would be accepted. If not, then.. I don't know you must live in a completely different universe than I do. And it seems quite apparent that everyone is on a different realm.

high|hgih said:

But what if you're the God that you perceive as an outside source, and your 'now' is simply the two dimensional universe that you are creating?

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How does one exist in two dimensions?