If a woman can abort a child, should a man be able to initiate the abortion?

[racerboy71]

Clearly you don't have kids yourself nor have ever been in the situation to actually sleep with a woman.

The world isn't all black and white.

I bet you're pro-life too...pathetic.

yeah, i'm the one who is willing to stand up and pay for a kid that i father, unlike you, but i'm the one who has problems getting laid.. idk, maybe the chicks in ireland are into dead beat dads, so maybe they're all over you, but here in the states, yeah, not so much, unless you want some girl who's not worth having sex with in the first place..
idk, the only way i can see you having sex harrekin, is a, paying for it, or b, lying to the girl about being a real man, and tell her, sure baby, i'll stick around after i ejaculate inside of you and you get pregnant, even though we both know you'd be lying through your teeth, and are no where near a real man enough to take responsibility for your actions..

 

[BigNBushy]

Fucking = Baby
No Fucking = No Baby

Yeah, way to complicated to be just black and white.


Aside from rape, it is black and white. People simply choose to gamble their desires against a potential pregnancy, for whatever reason.

Even rape isn't as much as you think.

Most circumstances that lead to rape are chosen by the women/victim.

 

[racerboy71]

Even rape isn't as much as you think.

Most circumstances that lead to rape are chosen by the women/victim.

omfg, come on big, i've been agreeing with you for a lot of your posts in this thread, then you come out with this line and make me feel like a right idiot.. you can't even be serious in thinking that anything a woman could do would warrant rape..

 

[BigNBushy]

omfg, come on big, i've been agreeing with you for a lot of your posts in this thread, then you come out with this line and make me feel like a right idiot.. you can't even be serious in thinking that anything a woman could do would warrant rape..

No, not warrant.

But is a 2 am jog across campus without risk?

Is it a good idea to drink to unconsciousness at a frat party?

None of those things mean the woman deserves to get raped of course. But they do highly increase the odds of some asshole raping her.

She is not culpable, but she did choose the circumstances that allowed the rape to happen.

 

[racerboy71]

No, not warrant.

But is a 2 am jog across campus without risk?

Is it a good idea to drink to unconsciousness at a frat party?

None of those things mean the woman deserves to get raped of course. But they do highly increase the odds of some asshole raping her.

She is not culpable, but she did choose the circumstances that allowed the rape to happen.

well of course.. whether a girl was simply walking down the street, and some douche bag pulls up in his car and abducts her and takes her home and rapes her, she was walking down that street after all, what was she thinking? and again, going to a party, and drinking. men do it all the time, does that mean they put themselves in the position to be ass raped?

 

[kelly4]

Most circumstances that lead to rape are chosen by the women/victim.

Wetoddid...

 

[spandy]

Even rape isn't as much as you think.

Most circumstances that lead to rape are chosen by the women/victim.

That's fucked right there.

 

[BigNBushy]

well of course.. whether a girl was simply walking down the street, and some douche bag pulls up in his car and abducts her and takes her home and rapes her, she was walking down that street after all, what was she thinking? and again, going to a party, and drinking. men do it all the time, does that mean they put themselves in the position to be ass raped?

If you drink to the point to where you lose consciousness, you voluntarily place yourself at the mercy of those around you. Usually men just get face painted, and pictures taken of them with scrotums on their face.

You're right, a woman should be able to jog across campus without worry. I remember when I was in college several women were raped.

Each one occurred at odd hours walking across campus, or at a party, where it turned out she became to drunk to control events around her.

Should the penalty be less for the rapist in such situations? Absolutely not, worse if anything. But I guarantee you that if the girl had asked her mother if she should be out walking at 3 am, or pass out at a strangers house, her mom would have said don't do it. Why? Because bad things can happen when you do.

Each time something bad has happened to me, I can think of a poor choice I made that led to it.

This is all I'm saying.

 

[bird mcbride]

I wouldn't take the life of any human being unless it came down to my life or their life. And if I got control of the situation I wouldn't harm a person unless there was no alternative.
Babies are innocent. Should they be held accountable for our short comings?
I couldn't live with myself if I deliberately took the life of an unborn child.

 

[spandy]

Falling off a cliff while being drunk. bad choice could be getting drunk, and driving around, stopping, walking around, and then slipping off the edge of a rock, but remember, YOU are the dumbass who ultimately slipped.

I can play the same scenario, or similar, out for a rape, but it's the part where the guys dick is FORCED inside the woman where the poor choice theory completely falls apart.

 

[spandy]

I wouldn't take the life of any human being unless it came down to my life or their life. And if I got control of the situation I wouldn't harm a person unless there was no alternative.

Not me. Sexual crimes can destroy a person/family more than a murder. I have a special place for anyone who ever dares to touch my family in such ways. It would be planned and on purpose, and I would have complete control, no cool one liners or explanation, just a loud "bang" followed by the sound of dirt piling up. Done.

 

[bird mcbride]

I know a women who walked off the edge of a cliff drunk. It was shortly after she testified against her brother in a rape trial. Her mom and dad were with her when she walked off the edge of the cliff. Her parents explained to the police that their daughter slipped off the edge of the cliff while taking a piss.
I dragged this guy outta hiding. I don't approve of rape, but i don't approve of killing unborn children either.
I have a horrible time at crop time. Usually I have to get someone else to do the chopping

 

[BigNBushy]

Falling off a cliff while being drunk. bad choice could be getting drunk, and driving around, stopping, walking around, and then slipping off the edge of a rock, but remember, YOU are the dumbass who ultimately slipped.

I can play the same scenario, or similar, out for a rape, but it's the part where the guys dick is FORCED inside the woman where the poor choice theory completely falls apart.

I agree with you. The worst choice made is the one by the rapist.

But you would say I was wrong by saying there are things you can do, or fail to do, that either increase or decrease the chance of something bad, like rape, from happening?

I'm not blaming the victim here, it's not the old "she was asking for it" routine. Just application of common sense.

 

[bird mcbride]

I know I wouldn't want to be the victom of a penis and virgina arguement
My mother told me that the only way a woman can be raped is by threats/weapon/physical force/drugs.
The victom in the case I refered to put herself into a position to get laid, but not at knife point. she said even if the guy got a bit rough, but not a knife...
The assailants sister described her brothers knife to the police which match the description given by the complaintant. The knife had been disposed of by the assailant's mother and father.
The victom had her baby...
Usually when a person puts theirself at risk they are doing so willingly.

 

[Harrekin]

yeah, i'm the one who is willing to stand up and pay for a kid that i father, unlike you, but i'm the one who has problems getting laid.. idk, maybe the chicks in ireland are into dead beat dads, so maybe they're all over you, but here in the states, yeah, not so much, unless you want some girl who's not worth having sex with in the first place..
idk, the only way i can see you having sex harrekin, is a, paying for it, or b, lying to the girl about being a real man, and tell her, sure baby, i'll stick around after i ejaculate inside of you and you get pregnant, even though we both know you'd be lying through your teeth, and are no where near a real man enough to take responsibility for your actions..

So to you, sex is an automatic commitment on the mans part to "making a baby"?

First off, that by itself is fucked, what are you? A 13 year old Christian boy?

Secondly, if a woman is effected more by pregnancy, why is it the mans responsibility to wrap up? Shouldnt the larger responsibility be on the one who takes the brunt of the repercussions?

So if a woman gets pregnant, chooses not to take the morning after pill or get an early term abortion the man should automatically be committed for 18+ years on her whim?

And it is a whim, because there are MANY "after the fact" contraceptives available.

Given this, and given the mans apparent commitment to responsibility, why does he not get a say in what happens to the embryo? Which is distinctly NOT a person at that point.

 

[BigNBushy]

So to you, sex is an automatic commitment on the mans part to "making a baby"?

First off, that by itself is fucked, what are you? A 13 year old Christian boy?

Secondly, if a woman is effected more by pregnancy, why is it the mans responsibility to wrap up? Shouldnt the larger responsibility be on the one who takes the brunt of the repercussions?

So if a woman gets pregnant, chooses not to take the morning after pill or get an early term abortion the man should automatically be committed for 18+ years on her whim?

And it is a whim, because there are MANY "after the fact" contraceptives available.

Given this, and given the mans apparent commitment to responsibility, why does he not get a say in what happens to the embryo? Which is distinctly NOT a person at that point.

It isn't that way for the sake of the woman, it is that way for the sake of the child.

I would agree that child support payments need more oversight and accountability with respect to how that money is spent.

 

[killemsoftly]

Even rape isn't as much as you think.

Most circumstances that lead to rape are chosen by the women/victim.

The ladykiller be here!

 

[killemsoftly]

Even rape isn't as much as you think.

Most circumstances that lead to rape are chosen by the women/victim.

The ladykiller be here!

 

[Harrekin]

It isn't that way for the sake of the woman, it is that way for the sake of the child.

I would agree that child support payments need more oversight and accountability with respect to how that money is spent.

No, its that way cos fundamentalist arseholes like you make it that way.

 

[schuylaar]

Fucking = Baby
No Fucking = No Baby

Yeah, way to complicated to be just black and white.


Aside from rape, it is black and white. People simply choose to gamble their desires against a potential pregnancy, for whatever reason.

seriously?

gamble, whatever reason = dick no rubber = purely selfish = me, me, me..

no man has the right to say anything UNLESS he was wearing a rubber.