Entitlement

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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
the State (society), I have to ask how you feel about the State (society) , OMG, "socialism!"
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Sounds like someone needs to petition for a redress of grievances.

If Zoning laws are so distasteful to you, you can just move.

Most people buy homes that are already built and don't have to worry about zoning laws for the most part.
 
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az2000

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Most people buy homes that are already built and don't have to worry about zoning laws for the most part.
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I see. You're ok with exempting owners of pre-existing homes from zoning laws? They can convert their homes into late night biker bars?
 
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Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
Of course, I totally agree. I'm just perplexed why you feel other acts of "socializing the market" aren't "socialism." Our social contract (oops, another "socialism" compared to raw, unadulterated individual consent) depends upon the consent of the governed. Without it, our society ceases to function. As inequality deepens, more people see the system as "rigged." They care less about the "common good," and more about their individual interest. So-called "entitlements" are a means of giving the disenfranchised a stake in the system. To ensure our system functions with less violence and coercion (as in, uprisings, crime, etc.).

Personally, I'd rather see money spent on education and subsidies to employers to hire the unemployable than direct payments to the disinfranchised. I think we could do better. But, in either case, you'd call it "socialism" -- while refusing to apply that pejorative to social moderation of other markets you personally benefit from.



Remind me again how zoning laws are not a State domination of the market?
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youre now engaging in sophistry.
when you "socialize" a market it becomes a state run enterprise, which is NOT a market

zoning laws dont dominate the market they establish standards, to ensure that the buyer gets what he paid for, just as a secure currency ensures that the seller is paid in real monies instead of counterfeit notes or coins

regulation makes the market REGULAR (as in, "not fucked up") it does not compel the buyer to buy, nor the seller to sell based on The State's desires.

if you want to sell your goods, you follow the regulations of the market, if you wish to buy shit, you follow the regulations of the market, that way the market prospers.

without regulations, markets tend to devolve into chaos, with the currency becoming worthless, and the goods being of random quality.

history teaches many lessons.
if you make the dole high enough that you can live on it comfortably without getting off your ass, too many people sit on their asses

if the state dominates the market, youll have shortages, artificially high or low prices, some goods will never bee seen, and others which are not desirable will be found in plenty

the soviet union tried to run a market using marx's ideas, and it was a miserable failure. only the power of the state, and the use of violence to quell unrest kept the soviets in power.

talk to somebody who grew up under soviet rule, or a cuban emigre'

they can tell you all about how great marxism works.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
I agree. Would you also say minimum wage doesn't dominate the market, it only establishes a standard?
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that is true.

nobody calls the minimum wage socialism though.

it's tinkering with the market, it's bad economic policy, it's shortsighted, and it is inflationary

but it's not socialism.

a lot of people who advocate for it are socialist though.

like AbandonIntegrity. he frequently expresses his desire to "Smash Capitalism" but refuses to admit his preferred replacement economic theory

psst... it's Zapatismo. google it

pushing for the new move to double the minimum wage is economic sabotage, many of the proponents want to see an economic collapse, just so they can propose a "solution" for the problems they caused (google George Soros, and Dominique Strauss Khan) and turn a tidy profit doing so

powerful marxist touts are rarely as ideologically pure as the proletarians believe
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
kynes, you predicate all of your arguments on such flimsy foundations (some of us call them outright lies and deficiencies in mental capacity).

why do you lie so often?
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
DonAlejandroVega said:
minimum wage is indeed socialism. a gubberment interfering in a free market for the supposed good of its citizens.
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no it is not.

thanks for proving my point.

the minimum wage is a standard, just like standardizing weights and measures.

i can sell you 18 oz of tomatoes and only charge you for for a pound, but i can NOT sell you 18 ounces of tomatoes and charge you for TWO pounds.

see how that works?
the owner of the scale can cheat himself, but he is forbidden from cheating you (the guy who has less power in the transaction)

likewise, if you hand me a counterfeit banknote, thats forbidden too.

without these rules, ill charge you too much, youll pay with fake monies, and the market collapses into ruins.

regulation makes the market regular, establishing a minimum wage may be inflationary, short sighted and foolish, but it does simply establish a standard.

when the govt steps in and tells me how many people i must hire, how much of my goods i can produce, and what price i must sell them at, THAT is socialism, and then the market is no longer a market.
 
DonAlejandroVega

DonAlejandroVega

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
no it is not.

thanks for proving my point.

the minimum wage is a standard, just like standardizing weights and measures.

i can sell you 18 oz of tomatoes and only charge you for for a pound, but i can NOT sell you 18 ounces of tomatoes and charge you for TWO pounds.

see how that works?
the owner of the scale can cheat himself, but he is forbidden from cheating you (the guy who has less power in the transaction)

likewise, if you hand me a counterfeit banknote, thats forbidden too.

without these rules, ill charge you too much, youll pay with fake monies, and the market collapses into ruins.

regulation makes the market regular, establishing a minimum wage may be inflationary, short sighted and foolish, but it does simply establish a standard.

when the govt steps in and tells me how many people i must hire, how much of my goods i can produce, and what price i must sell them at, THAT is socialism, and then the market is no longer a market.
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Doc......is there a legal minimum price........for tomatoes?
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
DonAlejandroVega said:
Doc......is there a legal minimum price........for tomatoes?
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nope.

if there were a legal MAXIMUM price for tomatoes, that would be socialism
if there were a legal MAXIMUM wage, that would be socialism

puttin in a minimum standard doesnt qualify as anything more than ordinary regulations.
 
DonAlejandroVega

DonAlejandroVega

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
nope.

if there were a legal MAXIMUM price for tomatoes, that would be socialism
if there were a legal MAXIMUM wage, that would be socialism

puttin in a minimum standard doesnt qualify as anything more than ordinary regulations.
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the MAXIMUM illegal wage is now going to be X dollars per hour. its the same.

end the state.
 
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