Why hate on the Chinese?

[SomeGuy]

Honestly, if not using something more or at least equal to hps in efficiency then why use it?

This is where it is at in my book. if the efficiency of the light is better you will produce more given the same power consumption.

 

[medicinehuman]

For the first six day's things were looking dim and then on the 7th day he made CREE CXA's

 

[churchhaze]

Maybe the output pattern of cobs makes it better since it doesn't need a reflector for half the light like HPS does?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I honestly don't know. It seems weird to me that people would buy expensive prebuilt LED's that only have 30% efficiency when HPS already offers that type of efficiency. Maybe reflector inefficiency of HPS tips the scale in favor of 30% efficient LEDs that only shoot down?

Believe me, I wonder the same thing.

Honestly, if not using something more or at least equal to hps in efficiency then why use it?

 

[hyroot]

Maybe the output pattern of cobs makes it better since it doesn't need a reflector for half the light like HPS does?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I honestly don't know. It seems weird to me that people would buy expensive prebuilt LED's that only have 30% efficiency when HPS already offers that type of efficiency. Maybe reflector inefficiency of HPS tips the scale in favor of 30% efficient LEDs that only shoot down?

Believe me, I wonder the same thing.

Well you have electrical efficiency then photsynthetic efficieny - usable light. Hps only has 10% at most of usable light, where, cmh, led and induction have 80% + usable light.

 

[Thorhax]

The OP seems to be under the impression that more watts (talking about just LED lighting) is better.

No I don't. I think that that specific 468w Chinese light puts out more light energy for the plant than a 160w sgs. Not saying it's better in any way, I love my sgs...

 

[Thorhax]

Maybe the output pattern of cobs makes it better since it doesn't need a reflector for half the light like HPS does?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I honestly don't know. It seems weird to me that people would buy expensive prebuilt LED's that only have 30% efficiency when HPS already offers that type of efficiency. Maybe reflector inefficiency of HPS tips the scale in favor of 30% efficient LEDs that only shoot down?

Believe me, I wonder the same thing.

However LEDs put out more usable light than a hps..

 

[Greengenes707]

Maybe the output pattern of cobs makes it better since it doesn't need a reflector for half the light like HPS does?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I honestly don't know. It seems weird to me that people would buy expensive prebuilt LED's that only have 30% efficiency when HPS already offers that type of efficiency. Maybe reflector inefficiency of HPS tips the scale in favor of 30% efficient LEDs that only shoot down?

Believe me, I wonder the same thing.

I have thought about it too. But for me I really haven't gotten hps like results on a larger scale till the most recent generation of chips...and now the cxa's. Which do match hps in efficiency and hold it for far longer. The other thing I think that plays into all led's and you mentioned is the single directionality of the source. The light that is coming out and being measure(in labs or in gardens) is going in one direction for the most part...at least half the direction of hps...which means more light to the canopy for growth.

However LEDs put out more usable light than a hps..

Well you have electrical efficiency then photsynthetic efficieny - usable light. Hps only has 10% at most of usable light, where, cmh, led and induction have 80% + usable light.

Hps's spectrum isn't that bad really, plus they come with a lot of photons
If they were to use the McCree curve it would look even better.


It still takes the best quality and/or efficiency led's to compete with hps while saving wattage and/or heat. Watt for watt on the other hand, I think even some chinese lights would put up fight and maybe gain some morphological aspects from the spectrum.

 

[bicit]

Chinese LED's would probably be best suited for small spaces that would normally use a few CFL's or T5's and low wattage HID's perform pretty poorly.

 

[FranJan]

Communist, with a capital C is a a political party whereas communist is someone who believes in an ideology.

That aside, I've heard of DIY epistar multichip arrays bringing in over 1gpw when underdriven and properly cooled.

Real Epistars (Taiwanese, right?) aren't bad it's the companies licensing Epistar tech and calling their diodes "EPISTARS" that have given the Epistar name a generic feel.

 

[Chronikool]

Real Epistars (Taiwanese, right?) aren't bad it's the companies licensing Epistar tech and calling their diodes "EPISTARS" that have given the Epistar name a generic feel.

Yes....it is easy to forget this point.....

Think the name people want is: EPILED.... as a generic diode...

 

[Thorhax]

So this is why I now hate on the Chinese Only 4 months of use

 

[GroErr]

No quality issues with mine but if you want some details on why I hate them for flowering, check out the thread I ran a while back. Still use them for seedlings/clones/vegging and they do a good job for that, but for flowering, nah... These are the LG Reflector panels from Top LED (I don't give a fuck whether they uphold the warranty, I've heard if you trash them they'll screw you on warranty - lol), but don't expect any of the over-rated, over-marketed, 7/9/11 band Chinese panels to fare any better. Sure, they can flower, so can a bunch of incandescent light bulbs, but unless you're content with fluff and around .2 gpw, look to the big name brands, or CFL's, you'll probably fare better

 

[Thorhax]

No quality issues with mine but if you want some details on why I hate them for flowering, check out the thread I ran a while back. Still use them for seedlings/clones/vegging and they do a good job for that, but for flowering, nah... These are the LG Reflector panels from Top LED (I don't give a fuck whether they uphold the warranty, I've heard if you trash them they'll screw you on warranty - lol), but don't expect any of the over-rated, over-marketed, 7/9/11 band Chinese panels to fare any better. Sure, they can flower, so can a bunch of incandescent light bulbs, but unless you're content with fluff and around .2 gpw, look to the big name brands, or CFL's, you'll probably fare better

i also have 2 area 51 sgs160s which are awesome.

 

[az2000]

Chinese LED's would probably be best suited for small spaces that would normally use a few CFL's or T5's and low wattage HID's perform pretty poorly.

I agree. I've been running a Blackstar 135w (85w actual) UFO in a 2x2x4' tall space for autoflowers. I've been getting 1g/w or better. (Blackstar is just a rebranded Chinese import). All of the high-quality lights won't fit well in that vertical space. They're 5w and/or use reflectors, producing more penetration than I need, requiring more space between the light and the canopy than I can accommodate.

Even though I've been pleased with my "Chinese" light, when I have to replace it I'll invest in some Cree A19 (incandescent replacement) bulbs and the fixtures to hang about 10-12 of them around the plant. (<<link) I'm using 4 now to supplement the Blackstar. (Even though 100g was very good for an 85w light, I know I wasn't using enough light in that 4x4 space. I got 180g from that same space when running T5ho and a couple CFLs as side light, about 200w.).

 

[cassinfo]

Better than people trying to flower with cfl though, right? The appeal to the epistar arrays is that they're 10 dollars for the equivalent of a vero 29 in power output.

I personally have no plans to use the epistar whites (fine with veros at the moment), but it seems like a good competitor to HPS if it can get 1+ gpw with such a low startup cost.

I can't understand the cfl grows. Do the cree bulbs perform better than the epistar arrays when driven at a "DIY current" and cooled adequately?

Edit: the prebuilt chinese fixtures are no good for anything imo. Overdriven, undercooled crap. Fire hazard!

This is flower with CFL. Pictures does not do it justice.

 

[SupraSPL]

Another thing I have been dying to bring up...
g/w is getting somewhat useless. Sure people are hitting over 1g/w...but are the maximizing the space??? For reference...1000w hps can do over 60grams/sqft in a 4x4...even at .8g/w it still hits 50g/sqft. So if someone is getting 1g/w@25w/sqft, great but...they are still a minimum 100% away from being an hps replacement.

Honestly, if not using something more or at least equal to hps in efficiency then why use it?

Important points GG. Some growers are limited by space and some are limited by heat. We save so much money by growing, how could we ever say that we are limited by electricity cost? (except maybe Hawaii, Cali, places that are hot and have expensive electric). And finally, some growers are limited by the up front cost of the lamp. I encourage those growers to go with cheapo HPS rather than a cheapo LED. Then after a few cycles maybe you can afford a high quality LED. That is exactly what I did and eventually swapped out all the cheapo HPS for DIY LED, massively reducing heat, saving electricity and even increasing my yield in the same space. Commercial works, but DIY allows you to design the lamp based on whatever is holding your grow back. Best investment I have ever made.

 

[Thorhax]

just spent $100 on: 4 vero 18 3000k cobs, 4 85-265V 50W High Power Constant Current LED Driver, 4 solder less connectors, I'm going to make this POS light into something useful.

 

[SupraSPL]

That should give you about 150W of LED dissipation at about 32% efficient. Driver efficiency 91%+. That will get you some buds for sure

 

[epicfail]

My only commercial panels are A51, recently I had a white chip burn out taking all the whites on the half the panel. I am glad I went with A51, Jeff sent me the replacement board after some troubleshooting and it arrived very quickly. The repair was straight forward and cost me nothing, I don't think if I bought chinese it would have gone so smoothly.