lio lacidem
Well-Known Member
If the bubbles are larger and irregular in size its solvent if they are small equal size bubbles its co2 and solvent is well purged
Making shatter smell/taste better? + Questions w/ technique
- Thread starter shockys
- Start date
lio lacidem
Well-Known Member
Sizzling is most likely moisture trapped in oil from extracting.
SnapsProvolone
Well-Known Member
Good shatter seems to sizzle on a hot nail but it's just fizzing a rapid decarb??
I am glad to here the pros here say that sizzling isn't necessarily butane and that its likely moisture or co2, that makes me feel a lot better when something sizzles a bit on the nail but tastes fine otherwise.
The only problem i guess is that when i vac, the reaction under 110F never seems to stop. Maybe its cuz lately ive been using shit material.
Hopefully i'll be getting a thermos soon and can do a proper soak with 7gs of dank nugs, hopefully i can make some proper stuff.
The only problem i guess is that when i vac, the reaction under 110F never seems to stop. Maybe its cuz lately ive been using shit material.
Hopefully i'll be getting a thermos soon and can do a proper soak with 7gs of dank nugs, hopefully i can make some proper stuff.
mantle7717
Well-Known Member
im not sure how i feel about any of this, but i purge untill i see no bubbles, maybe its because my temps dont go above 115, but when i see a bunch of small little bubbles after using everclear, bubbles that dont look like butane bubbles, grain alcohol pretty much guarantees shatter for me but some times i will take a dab that was less purged than i though and the alcohol will dry out my throat and mess with my asthma, when i put a slap of shatter that give me this reaction in the pump i see those bubbles.......... after a purge i no longer get this reaction from residual alcohol because its gone, ive dabbed stuff from a 72hour purge and it didnt sizzle it was like a quite hiss, like i was vaping water
arent decarb bubbles residual solvent or is the skunkpharm wrong
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/
arent decarb bubbles residual solvent or is the skunkpharm wrong
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/
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rekoj0916
Well-Known Member
So my only issue with this is that when I've had those uniform bubbles after longer purges and I take a dab it tastes odd. Foul in a sense, so I throw it back in to purge. When I watch the bubbles they may still be uniform with a couple that aren't, however even those that are uniform have a rainbow color to them which leads me to believe that there was still butane in the product.
Also, when it stops reacting and I take it out after that it tends to be pretty damn stable and shatter like. Throw it back in after flipping and it bubbles again like crazy...if left too long it isn't as stable. Would this be because it began to partially decarb? Am I needing to find the "sweet spot" for removing from purge in order to keep the shatter consistency? Any assistance/insight is welcome!!
Rekoj
lio lacidem
Well-Known Member
Hey mantle I actually believe you are misreading the skunkpharm link. It specifically shows pics of decarb bubbles and of solvent bubbles. They are definately not the same.
mantle7717
Well-Known Member
it says
"I am seemingly missing the middle picture of the CO2 bubbles, so I will add it later, but the second picture shows what fully decarboxylated oil looks like."
the pic there is of residual solvent bubbles, im not sure what decarb bubbles look like, but when i do a quick wash and there is residual alcohol, i get bubbles like the ones shown in the link
mantle7717
Well-Known Member
once again i dont think ive seen decarb bubbles before as my temps never go above 115, for my education can you post a pic of what they look like
mantle7717
Well-Known Member
dude i feel you so hard on this whether i blast or do a quickwash, you can taste the difference between clean shatter and shatter with residual, and i find that every bit of purging helps, if you see bubbles after fliping and you under 115 i say keep purging till no bubbles, ive purged for 48-72 hours flipping as needed and gotten brittle shatter.
ok but i never go above 115 and i see bubbles that look like the ones in the pic of residual solvent, the pic of the decarb bubbles is missing,
it says "I am seemingly missing the middle picture of the CO2 bubbles, so I will add it later, but the second picture shows what fully decarboxylated oil looks like."
can you show me a pic of what decarb bubbles look like so i have a point of reference for the future?
Fadedawg
Well-Known Member
It drives off more monoterpenes and partially decarboxylates the oil. At -29.5" Hg, it isn't necessary to go any hotter than it takes to melt the surface and lower surface tension enough for the gas, that is already above its boiling point, to escape.
Daub Marley
Active Member
The terpenes are nonpolar. They dissolve into the cannabinoids and give it the characteristic strain smell, but also make it sticky, sappy, runny, etc. Basically, shatter= no terps
The concentrates market started to favor shatter because its stable and easy to handle. Terpenes were given up in the process.
The concentrates market started to favor shatter because its stable and easy to handle. Terpenes were given up in the process.
Many (or most) of them are polar and water-soluble.
Fadedawg
Well-Known Member
Check out:
http://www.epa.gov/hpv/pubs/summaries/bictrphy/c13610.pdf
3.1.5 Water Solubility
The reported water solubilities for alpha-pinene and beta-pinene are 0.65 and 2.1 mg/L at
25 °C respectively [Broderius et al., 1990] while the calculated values [Meylan, 1993
1995b] are 1.9 and 4.9 mg/L.
The measured solubility of camphene (4.2 mg/L at 20 o C) is in the same range as for pinene [Hoechst AG, 1991c].
The close agreement between calculated and measured values gives confidence in the model used for this group.
The solubility of all members of this chemical category at 25 o C is expected to be in the rangefrom 0.50 to 6.0 mg/L. No further solubility studies are recommended
Daub Marley
Active Member
There is no black and white polar and non-polar, all of the terpenes would have some degree of solubility in water, but for the most part they are considered non-polar. Could you list some of the polar terpenes if you disagree?
No, I can not.
I wrote it by mistake in a fit of misanthropic cognitive dissonance caused by extraneous factors, unrelated to discussed topic.
Please accept my sincere apologies and regard this record invalid.
Fadedawg
Well-Known Member
I just hate it when I stick my foot in my mouth too brother Mig, but on this and similar forums, one can't lose sight of the effects of product research at any given moment. Thanks for not only recognizing it, but manning up! I admire someone able to do that!
Here is a link with dielectric constants for some of the terpenes, showing them hovering around 2.1 to 2.5.
More polar than butane, but less polar than the dielectric of 15 considered the dividing line for the topic of conversation.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01648a026?journalCode=jacsat
Here is a link with dielectric constants for some of the terpenes, showing them hovering around 2.1 to 2.5.
More polar than butane, but less polar than the dielectric of 15 considered the dividing line for the topic of conversation.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01648a026?journalCode=jacsat
GhostBud420
Well-Known Member
I've always kinda thought that moisture content has a lot to do with necessary purge temps and time spent under vacuum to achieve a good product. I try to keep my temps around 105-110. I would drop the temps if better reaction was happening in the chamber though. No use in applying excessive heat to achieve the same thing. Or if you do your basically burning off terpenes at an accelerated rate. Under Vac and 100 degree temps theres no way to preserve 100% of the terps or flavor. I tend to Dewax my all my oils which pulls more terps out as well. End result if done right is still extremely tasty and definitely more potent.
Fadedawg
Well-Known Member
While I casually toss around 115F, that was the maximum temperature required to liquify all of our samples. Some will liquify enough to release the bubbles at a lower temperature.
When seeking the optimum temperature for a specific strain, I usually start around 100F and work up.