1099s for cannabis vendors?

Budsmoker187

Well-Known Member
is it typical for a club to send 1099 forms to members vending med to them? As a vendor i never was 1099 but have heard cases where club sent them out. Now that I run a delivery services I was wondering what other people do for outsourcing. Ive def paid a few vendors over 600$ in a year.
 

colonuggs

Well-Known Member
if they 1099... they will give you a receipt every time they buy from you.....

Medical don't pay taxes ....most are run as non profits
 

JennyBright

New Member
if they 1099... they will give you a receipt every time they buy from you.....

Medical don't pay taxes ....most are run as non profits
Not true, unless a non-profit qualifies for tax exempt status they are still liable for sales tax as well as federal and state income tax. Non-profits still pay taxes. Non-profit does not mean non-taxed.

Some collectives 1099 vendors, but volunteers receiving reimbursements from a non-profit are not required to receive one, so most attempt to bypass this requirement by claiming the purchases as reimbursements for donations. This is also done because many interpret the attorney general guidelines that state that monetary exchanges may be made to reasonably cover reimbursements for costs related to cultivation to mean they are only able to offer reimbursements for medicine donated. If the collective were to get audited many of those expenses may not be allowed, because an expense reimbursement does not cover labor, it is a service that should usually require a 1099. I don't see a lot of growers bringing their utility bills to account for expense reimbursements either, and this lack of accounting could screw the collective if the IRS were to audit them.

Nothing in the law states that you cannot pay someone for their labor, just that nobody may profit. Non-profits are allowed to compensate workers, and that's how vendors can appear on paper, as paid labor. Being paid for your labor is not considered profiting, and the nature of the business does not need to be disclosed to the IRS as per our fifth amendment right to not incriminate oneself. Vendors would need to receive a 1099 to guarantee the collective can claim the expense, otherwise the collective may have to pay the tax on their gross receipts.

Also, a collective cannot file a 1099 for you unless they collect your social security number on a form W9. Again, the real issue a collective could face by not filing 1099s is when claiming those expense deductions, even as a cost of good sold(which is still allowed under FITC 280E), having no proof of who was compensated.

Even if a collective is able to bypass the 1099 requirement, not giving receipts or tracking the source of marijuana, poses a legal risk, because it is explicitly written in the California Attorney General's guidelines that a collective should track and record the source of their marijuana to secure it's non-diversion. Not doing so can be grounds for arrest and seizure due to non compliance, even though the guidelines say "should" and not "must", and are presented as "suggestions" for remaining compliant, these guidelines are how law enforcement determines the legality of a collective.

The way most collectives are operating is not in accordance with current state guidelines or the federal tax code. Unfortunately, being in line with current state and tax regulations can be incriminating to oneself. The fifth amendment does give one the privilege, or right, to not incriminate yourself. However, this right does not protect an individual from their tax requirements, so any 1099 filed may legally withhold the nature of the business, but not the amount owed. Many growers form LLCs and claim the income under a tax id number as an agricultural company, or simply state their individual business as being a farm laborer or small farmer, both options enable them to claim expenses related to farming, like utilities and soil. You do not need to incriminate yourself to the federal government in order to remain legal, but you may not last long if you think the IRS will continue to allow massive deductions for expenses you have no way of accounting for. Don't mess with the IRS, they will ruin your life, seriously...
 

JennyBright

New Member
Wrong, collectives pay more taxes than you will ever imagine. They also don't get to write off hardly anything.
Unless it's a cost of goods sold, that is still allowed under the Federal Income Tax Code 280E that disallows deductions for federally illegal businesses. You are still allowed to deduct your cost of goods sold and any deductions allocated to the non-marijuana aspects of the business. A federal tax court ruled that this was still allowable in the CHAMP case. Research it folks ;)

http://www.law360.com/articles/513633/tax-creativity-keeps-pot-industry-out-of-irs-hot-water
 

Sempiternal

New Member
Try doing it and then come back and tell us how victorious you are. When the feds asked for their money the collective almost went under lol lawyers have been on deck the whole time trying to make sure we get treated like a legitimate business but it doesn't always work the way the rules say. For instance, banks have been told they will not get federally fucked with but we still had trouble with making accounts. We aren't there yet bud.
 

JennyBright

New Member
Try doing it and then come back and tell us how victorious you are. When the feds asked for their money the collective almost went under lol lawyers have been on deck the whole time trying to make sure we get treated like a legitimate business but it doesn't always work the way the rules say. For instance, banks have been told they will not get federally fucked with but we still had trouble with making accounts. We aren't there yet bud.
Yep, damned if you do, damned if you don't. This psuedo legal crap is just that, crap. If we were to follow all of the regulations we would be taxed out of existence. Even our lawyers don't know how to advise us in this climate of partial legality. Until it is rescheduled I don't have a lot of hope for receiving fair treatment. Just trying to stay compliant is posing a huge financial and legal risk, one not a lot of people are willing to join in on, especially not the banks or growers. Time will tell what changes will come. I just want to be able to continue doing what I love, so the risk is worth it. Even if i do go broke, lol. It's all so ridiculous.
 

colonuggs

Well-Known Member
Medical marijuana is not taxed as far as State retail sales tax they are EXEMPT....B. & O. taxes are another story

Patients who buy it are not taxed because it falls under prescription meds...If a MMJ store says they pay taxes they mean Federally and B & O...

Medical Marijuana Stores LEGALLY should not be charging any mmj patient any state sales tax...they can't incorporate that into the final selling price

If you don't collect the state sales tax...you don't pay it

That is the difference between the Recreation Stores and the Medical Stores

Rec stores charge and collect sales tax 9.6% and are also charged 25% taxes on profits 34.6% in taxes from profits Given to the state.... then the FEDS who at this point in time allow NO BUSINESS DEDUTIONS ...like Rent payroll ect. standard deductions that normal businesses get

At this time...MMJ stores have no where near the same taxation rates...There is no 25% no 9.6%

You think paying taxes is easy... no you cant open a bank account for a LEGAL marijuana business

Legal marijuana businesses without bank accounts are unfairly assessed a 10 percent penalty on federal employee withholding taxes they are required to pay electronically but are forced to pay in cash, according to a lawsuit challenging the practice.

That's because the Internal Revenue Service requires all businesses to pay the quarterly tax by bank wire, an impossibility for hundreds of medical and recreational marijuana shops nationwide that are unable to obtain banking services.

In a case that could have enormous tax ramifications for hundreds of marijuana dispensaries nationwide, Allgreens LLC of Denver is challenging the IRS practice of collecting what amounts to millions of dollars in penalties the businesses are helpless to avoid.
 
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JennyBright

New Member
Medical marijuana is not taxed as far as State retail sales tax they are EXEMPT....B. & O. taxes are another story

Patients who buy it are not taxed because it falls under prescription meds...If a MMJ store says they pay taxes they mean Federally and B & O...

Medical Marijuana Stores LEGALLY should not be charging any mmj patient any state sales tax...they can't incorporate that into the final selling price

If you don't collect the state sales tax...you don't pay it

That is the difference between the Recreation Stores and the Medical Stores

Rec stores charge and collect sales tax 9.6% and are also charged 25% taxes on profits 34.6% in taxes from profits Given to the state.... then the FEDS who at this point in time allow NO BUSINESS DEDUTIONS ...like Rent payroll ect. standard deductions that normal businesses get

At this time...MMJ stores have no where near the same taxation rates...There is no 25% no 9.6%

You think paying taxes is easy... no you cant open a bank account for a LEGAL marijuana business
In California medical marijuana collectives must pay sales tax, I personally must collect 7.5% of gross sales in sales tax, which gets paid to the Board of Equalization.

See the California Attorney General's Guidelines:
2.Business Licenses, Sales Tax, and Seller’s Permits: The State Board of Equalization has determined that medical marijuana transactions are subject to
sales tax, regardless of whether the individual or group makes a profit, and those engaging in transactions involving medical marijuana must obtain a Seller’s
Permit.

Beyond that coops and mutual benefit nonprofit corporations are subject to corporate tax rate of 35% and the state tax rate of 8.84%, at least this is how it is in California
 

JennyBright

New Member
This thread was posted under CALIFORNIA patients, so I believe the poster was asking about how people operate in California. Laws vary state to state.

Yes, banking is an issue, which is why many collectives use parent or subsidiary non-profits to get accounts in order to pay taxes. Otherwise, here, you must deliver it in cash and pay a penalty :( BS
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Not true, unless a non-profit qualifies for tax exempt status they are still liable for sales tax as well as federal and state income tax. Non-profits still pay taxes. Non-profit does not mean non-taxed.
People do not understand what a non-profit is. A lot of people think a non-profit implies that it is something similar to a charity. Non-profit does not imply that the business is a type of charity. It does not mean that people aren't making money. It simply means the company itself doesn't hold money at the end of the year and that the company can not have shares, you can not invest in it, and it can't pay dividends. People can make money, it's the company that can't make money.

For example the NFL is a non-profit. The NFL certainly makes tons of money. But you can not purchase shares of the NFL. And the NFL doesn't hold cash at the end of the year. It distributes the money to other companies and people. It does not pay corporate taxes on that money because the company doesn't hold on to that money. That's what a non-profit does. It's not that this money isn't taxed, it's just not taxed under this company. The other companies and people who receive the NFL's money do pay taxes on it.

Medical cannabis is a tricky type of non-profit. Under normal circumstances a company like this would not pay taxes, similarly to how the NFL doesn't pay taxes. Since the company doesn't carry over a profit, their is no profit for a corporate tax to apply to. I'm talking about corporate taxes, not sales tax which they do have to pay. However since medical marijuana is a schedule 1 narcotic, there is a law saying you can not claim tax deductions on sales of it. They call this 280e. You can deduct growing cannabis, you can deduct trimming, packaging, educating patients, lab testing, the time you pay your employees to verify doctors recs, etc. You just can't deduct the payroll time your employees spend exchanging cannabis for money.

So if your budtenders spend 90% of their time educating patients on the effects of cannabis and 10% of their time ringing people up on the cash register then you can deduct 90% of the payroll costs to that employee and have to pay taxes on the 10% of the payroll time used for ringing people up on the register. Same goes for rent. You can deduct what you pay in rent for everything except the portion of your sales floor you use to exchange product for money. So you have to look at your building plans and see what portion of the store is used for this purposes.

It's a fucked up system but that's what we have to work with.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Also, a collective cannot file a 1099 for you unless they collect your social security number on a form W9. Again, the real issue a collective could face by not filing 1099s is when claiming those expense deductions, even as a cost of good sold(which is still allowed under FITC 280E), having no proof of who was compensated.

Even if a collective is able to bypass the 1099 requirement, not giving receipts or tracking the source of marijuana, poses a legal risk, because it is explicitly written in the California Attorney General's guidelines that a collective should track and record the source of their marijuana to secure it's non-diversion. Not doing so can be grounds for arrest and seizure due to non compliance, even though the guidelines say "should" and not "must", and are presented as "suggestions" for remaining compliant, these guidelines are how law enforcement determines the legality of a collective.
Interesting. My accountant requires me to keep receipts, allows me to deduct all COGS, but does not require that I 1099 people in order to deduct.
 

JennyBright

New Member
Interesting. My accountant requires me to keep receipts, allows me to deduct all COGS, but does not require that I 1099 people in order to deduct.
My accountant and lawyer both find it necessary, in the case of an audit, to 1099. Most member growers do not want this, so by following the reimbursement model we usually do not, however they say we should in the case of an audit. It's not like our receipts go to the IRS, but I am concerned that we may not be shown to be compliant if we can't prove that those receipts actually link to a verified member.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
My accountant and lawyer both find it necessary, in the case of an audit, to 1099. Most member growers do not want this, so by following the reimbursement model we usually do not, however they say we should in the case of an audit. It's not like our receipts go to the IRS, but I am concerned that we may not be shown to be compliant if we can't prove that those receipts actually link to a verified member.
My accountant attempted to explain to me why we didn't have to do this, but it was a little over my head. Some crazy accounting trick. Something about how it's all considered taxable income until the end of the year and then they "pull it back" somehow (that was the part I didn't really understand).

Ninja accounting tricks.
 

JennyBright

New Member
My accountant attempted to explain to me why we didn't have to do this, but it was a little over my head. Some crazy accounting trick. Something about how it's all considered taxable income until the end of the year and then they "pull it back" somehow (that was the part I didn't really understand).

Ninja accounting tricks.
I understand, they mean that they "pull it back" by accounting for purchases as a cost of goods sold, thereby reducing your taxable income. It's all reasonable, I suppose even in case of an audit you would be able to pull out your receipts. However, receipts for income and expenses are required to link to members of the collective in order to be compliant with state law. Sure, the burden of proof would be on the prosecution to prove you are not compliant, but your books would prove just that because no vendors would be able to trace to a member. It's all pretty risky if you ask me.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
However, receipts for income and expenses are required to link to members of the collective in order to be compliant with state law. Sure, the burden of proof would be on the prosecution to prove you are not compliant, but your books would prove just that because no vendors would be able to trace to a member. It's all pretty risky if you ask me.
I am unaware of that law as is my accountant and lawyer. What law is that?
 

JennyBright

New Member
I am unaware of that law as is my accountant and lawyer. What law is that?
I should have said, "to remain compliant with the State's Attorney General's guidelines". Again, these guidelines are presented as suggestions for remaining compliant, but are also how law enforce t determines who is legally compliant.
 
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