707humboldt
Well-Known Member
How is it providing all the plant can photosynthesize if half the light isn't even being directed at the plants?
Are LED's practical for a grow room? (24 ft x 12 ft)
- Thread starter TheHeat
- Start date
Darth Vapour
Well-Known Member
And at the end of the day when you really break it all down the cost of 2 DE Gavita's for price of one cob unit Diy or store bought???
to me is not being efficient you can add all the power savings and final yield count ,, but again for the price it cost you be like putting up one cob Di unit to 2 DE Gavitas and i assure you your not going to come close
to me is not being efficient you can add all the power savings and final yield count ,, but again for the price it cost you be like putting up one cob Di unit to 2 DE Gavitas and i assure you your not going to come close
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Efficiency has nothing to do with penetration. Efficiency tells you how many watts of light are produced per watt of electricity dissipated. A 50% efficient lamp will generate 0.5W of heat for every 1W of electricity.
Lowering your light source will raise the intensity, but cover a smaller area. Raising the light will lower the intensity, but cover a larger area, but the total amount of light output won't change.
When it comes to electronics and words like efficiency, it's really important to use terms literally, and not loosely. That's where a lot of the confusion in these arguments comes from in the first place. When someone says a lamp is more efficient, they're saying more of the electric power going in becomes light power coming out, and nothing more. Efficiency is always a unitless number between 0-1. (W/W, the W cancels out)
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KarmaPaymentPlan
Well-Known Member
so pretty much you read none of the stuff that was offered to you before why do you even come back?
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Again, this is just a poor choice of words, and the reason for the pointless arguing in the first place. Most of us here agree that DE Gavitas are more cost effective. Efficiency and cost effectiveness are 2 completely separate things. You're preaching to the choir about how gavitas are a better deal, but a gavita has an efficiency of about 42% (very high) when fresh.
Darth Vapour
Well-Known Member
True but if you look at any LED seller there hammering Efficiency down your throat for instance lets be realistic here what would initial start up costs going compete Cob for this set up cost your going to also need ventilation so lets not use heat cause Cob will produce heat as well ..
so in all seriousnees whats start up cost for lighting alone,, i am not trying to be a smart ass i am just really curious what would lighting cost for room that size
so in all seriousnees whats start up cost for lighting alone,, i am not trying to be a smart ass i am just really curious what would lighting cost for room that size
Rrog
Well-Known Member
I'm not understanding this. Both systems can produce the same intensity at the canopy.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Find me one LED seller that lists efficiency on their advertisement. Find me one. Remember, efficiency is a unitless number between 0-1. They feed you all sorts of other BS numbers.. sure.., but if most of them told you their efficiency, nobody would ever buy them, because gavita's efficiency makes almost everything look like a joke. 42% is very high. The people getting 50% efficiency with DIY are underdriving to extreme levels, and using top flux bins, which means huge startup cost.. Most led units you can buy are actually lower than 30% efficiency, many lower than 15%..
Even the highest quality (most expensive) companies that use the highest quality leds don't list efficiency. The new area51 panels coming out soon are actually only going to have 40% efficiency. Do you think their ad will say "btw, gavita is 2% better efficiency than our latest and greatest Cob lamp?", because that's basically what's going on.
In order to find efficiency, you have to rip the SPD chart out of the individual cobs datasheets using a pixel reader to essentially count pixels, then do some calculus to find LER (luminous efficacy of radiation). Efficiency = luminous efficacy of source / LER . LER for the cxb 3000cri 80cri phosphor, for example, is 325lm/W, so if you get 150lm/W of that spectrum, for example, it's 150/325 = 46% efficiency. 325lm/W is what you'd get for a 100% efficient lamp with that spectral distribution (SPD). Notice how the units all cancel out.
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KarmaPaymentPlan
Well-Known Member
i think the even distribution of light is important too you can get Vero 29 and kinda push them and still get great results and cut start up costs even if your not hitting 40% i started with a couple at 1.8 amps with great results
Darth Vapour
Well-Known Member
bongspipesplants
Member
Listen my friend everyone has a much different opinion on whether LED's are worth it and ill say yes and no. I prefer LED's but thats because the style of how I grow. I tend to feel less problems can arise from using LED's and if you grow right you will get the same if not better results as that of a HID light. I hope this helps
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
he said "more efficient and more precise than anyone else". If you asked that guy what is the efficiency and how does that compare against competitors,he probably doesn't even know. Efficiency to sales is just a buzzword. It's also a buzzword to the majority of consumers...
It's frustrating when "efficiency conscious" people buy 5-15% efficient leds and act like they're saving the environment and somehow producing less heat, reducing their energy bill, etc. (not saying the ones you posted are 5-15%. I'm not exactly sure what those are.)
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707humboldt
Well-Known Member
If your growing in a larger space HID is the way to go IMO. There is a reason why everyone with a warehouse/large space uses HID. I know quite a few people with 20+ lights (inducing my self) and everyone uses 1000w DE hps. IMO most of the led advocates grow on a smaller scale. That you tube video is the only time I have seen warehouse spaces being used by LED and I don't necessarily agree with how he used his DE and I am skeptical that he works for an LED company. Ask anyone who owns a large legit medicinal/recreational grow and see what they use. HID
Just my opinion, not trying to offend LED guys
Just my opinion, not trying to offend LED guys
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
You're not listening. You already said that. We agree that HID is the way to go. It's not so much that you're being offensive so much as being annoying. Almost everyone here is saying DE is almost certainly the clear choice in this case.
Even the best cobs right now are mostly still for hobbiests. That being said, you don't really know much about them to be speaking about them as if you're somehow an authority, but I do have quite a bit of experience with HPS (small scale, but for a very long time).
They're bright, they're white, and they're lights.
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Darth Vapour
Well-Known Member
I am just saying but again there saying it to replace thee 1000 watt hid you do not see many companies like Gavita, dimlux, nanolux even bother comparing it to LED like saying you will need 2 units to compete with our unit lol .
All good anyways i am curious what initial start up would cost for a cob set up for this room.. Anyone ????
If i was going to play in that room i would purchase 6 - 1215 watt nanolux DE units for total of 7290 watts for under 2500 bucks add 500 bucks for exhaust fans possibly hook room up to closed loop central air house system if needed or direct air from outside possibly use heat to heat up parts of house ???
so 7290 watts for under 2500.00 And whats also great about these units they have soft starts can adjusts temps and even shut off if it exceeds temp set points its a win win
All good anyways i am curious what initial start up would cost for a cob set up for this room.. Anyone ????
If i was going to play in that room i would purchase 6 - 1215 watt nanolux DE units for total of 7290 watts for under 2500 bucks add 500 bucks for exhaust fans possibly hook room up to closed loop central air house system if needed or direct air from outside possibly use heat to heat up parts of house ???
so 7290 watts for under 2500.00 And whats also great about these units they have soft starts can adjusts temps and even shut off if it exceeds temp set points its a win win
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bicit
Well-Known Member
Well that would be $3000-3500, actually. You'll want quite a bit of air movement without air cooled hoods. The AC/DE hood with a remote ballast would be a better bet since heat is going to be a concern.
Probably the cheapest route to go. I come up with about $10,000 to light the space with ~50% efficient cobs. I'm just roughly estimating for 216square foot of canopy coverage. About 6000w worth of led power with. I could get it lower, but not much. My 60% efficient build would cost closer to 22k to implement on this scale, but it would last for a decade with nothing but a blast from a garden hose once per cycle.
You're going to need an AC either way as that's going to be about 18-22k btu of thermal energy being dissipated in the room.
Unless you use water cooling. Good luck with that though.
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churchhaze
Well-Known Member
It makes more sense to setup shop with DE right now. This circular argument doesn't need to keep going on. DIY led is more for hobbyists and research and development. But seriously, if you looked in one of my tents, you'd be shocked at just how bright these things really are. I've actually burned holes in my floor at low setting, the same way you'd burn ants with a magnifying glass if you're at point blank. It's easy to believe the lumen values and calculated efficiency when you see how bright they are in person, or what they can produce.
Keep in mind, I'm not a salesman (i'm the one that gives away everyone's recipes)... I've used HPS all my life, experiented with COBs to see what they were all about (i ignored all the other LED shit for over 10 years.), and have been very happy with teh results. Would have I saved money using HPS? Probably.
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KarmaPaymentPlan
Well-Known Member
so if you missed it by chance cuz i know you have a hard time reading this is part of why the de was recommended you have to source parts and man hours for a diy but I'd look into a bulk led wholesaler and a big chunk of aluminum and build a grow room out of it like i beams or thick sheets of just aluminum you can find them recycled for reasonable prices
707humboldt
Well-Known Member
I know enough to never buy one
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Never say never. Honestly, I think you should buy one now just to actually see what they are.