SPLFreak808
Well-Known Member
Is the shorter plant under the HPS? Or are they the same plant?
Are LED's practical for a grow room? (24 ft x 12 ft)
- Thread starter TheHeat
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REALSTYLES
Well-Known Member
Day 23 of flower
captainmorgan
Well-Known Member
It's obvious to anyone that knows LED that you don't have a clue what your talking about,just another feces flinger. I have a plant under COBs drawing 265 watts over a 3x3 screen that has a chance of hitting the LB mark and it's a top shelf strain,not some big bud strain that tastes like hay.
SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
The Gavita claim of 96% efficient reflector is very misleading. The actual Gavita reflector efficiency is 80% and the light that exits the reflector takes another 10% penalty from the glass when air cooled hoods are used (Gavita warns against air cooling HID bulbs). The photons that do actually exit the reflector do not all reach the canopy, many are heading the wrong direction and miss the canopy or diffuse in all directions when the hit the wall.
The 96% is the reflectivity of the material the hood is made of, when brand new,no dust or film on it. Many of the photons will bounce multiple times and they lose 4% each time. Some % will hit the bulb etc. As dust or film builds up, if reflectivity is reduced to 92% the reflector efficiency would be reduced from 80% to 60%.
The second part of your statement is true, we are not seeing 2 gpw COB grows, but I expect we will. Personally, I am not willing to sacrifice quality to prove the point and I don't know a thing about growing hydo, but someone will com along who will. When you take a grower that is getting above 1 gpw with 1000W DE and give them a high quality COB lamp, you will see amazing numbers. To take it even further, if you give that same grower a 50-60% efficient DIY lamp, much higher numbers again. If you call that LED religion, then I am guilty as charged.
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SPLFreak808
Well-Known Member
finally, i dont have to be scared shooting for 3lbs with 800w of cob. It has only been 5 months using my 1000watt hps's and never came close to 3lbs dry. If i could do it with cobs with less power then im all in. If anyone has 1.6+gpw grows please post! Or help me set up through pm lolThe Gavita claim of 96% efficient reflector is very misleading. The actual Gavita reflector efficiency is 80% and the light that exits the reflector takes another 10% penalty from the glass when air cooled hoods are used (Gavita warns against air cooling HID bulbs). The photons that do actually exit the reflector do not all reach the canopy, many are heading the wrong direction and miss the canopy or diffuse in all directions when the hit the wall.
The 96% is the reflectivity of the material the hood is made of, when brand new,no dust or film on it. Many of the photons will bounce multiple times and they lose 4% each time. Some % will hit the bulb etc. As dust or film builds up, if reflectivity is reduced to 92% the reflector efficiency would be reduced from 80% to 60%.
The second part of your statement is true, we are not seeing 2 gpw COB grows, but I expect we will. Personally, I am not willing to sacrifice quality to prove the point and I don't know a thing about growing hydo, but someone will com along who will. When you take a grower that is getting above 1 gpw with 1000W DE and give them a high quality COB lamp, you will see amazing numbers. To take it even further, if you give that same grower a 50-60% efficient DIY lamp, much higher numbers again. If you call that LED religion, then I am guilty as charged.
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SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
A bare HPS bulb with no reflector emits in 360 degree globe pattern, so it would experience exponential decline in intensity as distance increases (basic inverse square law). Adding a reflector addresses this problem and attempts to redirect as many photons as possible to the canopy. One way or another, 70% of the light emitted from horizontal HID bulbs must be redirected in order to reach the canopy. Much of that light never does, but instead is converted into heat while bouncing. You can imagine that some of the photons will penetrate the surface and in order to bounce they have to travel back through it again. Imagine a layer of metal so thin that it would appear translucent, especially with a very bright light behind it.
LED or COB intensity does not decrease following the basic inverse square law because it emits in a 170 degree cone pattern. We use reflectors or lenses to "tighten the beam" and try to put the photons where we want them, with as little diffusion loss as possible, while still maintaining as even intensity in the canopy as possible. About 25% of the light emitted from a COB needs to be redirected. So it is much less dependent on the reflector to get the job done and experiences much lower reflector losses.
To quote @ttystikk "In the case of light focused by lenses, the inverse square law still applies, but the lens affects the math by distance; the more focus, the longer the distance for exponential decrease. " Squiggly said "LED's follow a modified inverse-square law" further reading
So the formula now has to take the beam angle into account to find the the distance at which the light is halved. This is the primary reason 1000W of COB will beat 1000W of HPS.
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AquariusPanta
Well-Known Member
This thread... lmao... jesus christ....
Rahz
Well-Known Member
Personal experience which is what I suggested in the post you were replying to. LED isn't an industry standard so what good are a few grow journals? Even if there are some examples of awesome grows, does that mean LED is better? It could be the grower. It could be a switch out trick. Would you in a business situation throw down $10,000 or more based on a grow journal?
It would be irresponsible. That's why I suggest doing a 250 watt grow and using that personal experience to determine what it's capabilities are. It would be cheap and it's not a difficult task. If someone wants to know for sure what the current state of LED technology is they would find out for themselves.
If an LED skeptic was interested in investing 2-300 dollars to find out first hand what current LED tech can do, this forum is the best place on the internet to get advice for that. Would be way better than just arguing and bitching here (not referencing you specifically).
Shoot for nominal or 2/3 (my favorite) current and don't go light on the wattage. Do a test grow in the same space and same wattage you would use normally with HPS. Specifically for a 3x3 tent to get the same wattage as a 1000w DE in a 5x5 it would require 360 watts. For a 2x2 it would be 160 watts, or 320 watts in a 2x4. Any of those would be legit experiments for observing the potential of LED compared to standard solutions.
Positivity
Well-Known Member
Darth Vapour
Well-Known Member
Nice HPS grow there guy
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Left side is led(Apache at600)
Right side is 1000hps
2" foam divider so absolutely no cross over.
1 on 1
Darth Vapour
Well-Known Member
Dude people do not have time for potential what it could do ???
more n more growers are hitting 3 pounds dry per 1 k its becoming a normal occurrence.. specially with the Hybrid strains out there now .
Its like saying no need for the Bottle C02 all you need is sugar and yeist to make C02 lol. seriously
Here is a good side by side for any Cob user out there that wants to see lets use the strain GG4 4 plants ?? i am sure someone out there has access to the clone ?? hell i do and i am in another country....
4 x 4 ??? 5 x 5 ??? 10 x 10 ??? what ever size you like ..
I got a brand new Gavita just sitting in the box waiting
lets do 4 week veg and flip hell i even give you 5 weeks to my 4 weeks veg , due to my room being more dialed in ,, Hell if you Fart it will send a alarm ahaha
C02 or not your choice ,,
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AquariusPanta
Well-Known Member
Are Gavita's typically around $500?....
Darth Vapour
Well-Known Member
then a person would see first hand difference in veg growth between them flowering phase and most importantly Yield it could be broken down to even actual cost of electricity to get exact final numbers
Most people i find doing side by sides tend to be bias trying to push one side more then the other so its really unfair ,, most side by sides are LED sponsored . not saying your was there guy either way good grow not cutting either way down..
like you said you think your getting almost a pound , for some, growers they need pounds to survive
Cob / LED do grow and the tech is only going to get better with advancements but with HID there is no guessing your going to produce its how good of a grower you are that will dictate otherwise
Most people i find doing side by sides tend to be bias trying to push one side more then the other so its really unfair ,, most side by sides are LED sponsored . not saying your was there guy either way good grow not cutting either way down..
like you said you think your getting almost a pound , for some, growers they need pounds to survive
Cob / LED do grow and the tech is only going to get better with advancements but with HID there is no guessing your going to produce its how good of a grower you are that will dictate otherwise
Darth Vapour
Well-Known Member
There pro line are just plain and simple bad ass no other way to cut it
Rahz
Well-Known Member
If I did, you wouldn't trust my resultsHere is a good side by side for any Cob user out there that wants to see lets use the strain GG4 4 plants ?? i am sure someone out there has access to the clone ?? hell i do and i am in another country....
4 x 4 ??? 5 x 5 ??? 10 x 10 ??? what ever size you like ..
I got a brand new Gavita just sitting in the box waiting
lets do 4 week veg and flip hell i even give you 5 weeks to my 4 weeks veg , due to my room being more dialed in ,, Hell if you Fart it will send a alarm ahaha
C02 or not your choice ,,
So what is the point? If you don't do it yourself, you won't know. If you don't have time that's not my problem.
And seriously? People don't have time for potential what it could do? WTF does that even mean? Build a small lamp, find a small space and use it. Jesus.
Darth Vapour
Well-Known Member
Rahz
Well-Known Member
LOL, crap LED light. I thought by now you would understand the lamps we're building aren't using cheap 3 watt emitters.
My assumption at this point is that you have no interest in understanding what we're doing here. The only retail lamps worth taking measurements from are A51, Apachetech and Opticgrowlights. The lights we build ourselves are more efficient than any of those.
My assumption at this point is that you have no interest in understanding what we're doing here. The only retail lamps worth taking measurements from are A51, Apachetech and Opticgrowlights. The lights we build ourselves are more efficient than any of those.
Darth Vapour
Well-Known Member
Again there are many ways to skin a chicken here day 47 300 watt LEP plasma
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bicit
Well-Known Member
If you thought the initial investment on led was bad. Out fitting a grow room with those would require a small mortgage. ..Again there are many ways to skin a chicken here day 47 300 watt LEP plasma
You are blind and dishonest, since you ignore the pictures posted at your request. Leads me to belive you're a troll.
No comments on gg707 rocking it with diy cobs? Or does it fuck with your preconceived notions about led light too much.
Just another scientifically illiterate troll...