flush or not to flush

cowboyferg

cowboyferg

Well-Known Member
ofcourse ive never flushed myself but seen my homies do it right before harvest to get sum chems out
 
ugorg

ugorg

Well-Known Member
flushing rids the soil of built up salts and nutes so flushing get rid off all in the soil so your plant will use all its stored energy and give the buds a more smother smoke rather then smoking nutes and getting a head ake
I would say flush but some do some don't
 
RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
cowboyferg said:
if it don't flush chems and stuff why do people flush last week or so before harvest?
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well it is much like some folks believe in god and some don't, some are democrats and some are republifarts (which I'll never understand) and some are independent. Tis a matter of choice based on belief. Many years ago I wrote this

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622/

recently I added this to better explain all sides of the debate

As the guy that wrote "The Truth About Flushing" (Google it) years ago I want to first address all the new growers that may read this.

You will find a lot of hype and a lot of myths as well as a lot of BS in pot forums. You will also find little nuggets of truth, but you have to look for em and it means a lot of reading. My advice to new growers has always been, go read regular garden forums, Google "Al Tapla" and read everything you can find !!! He is a regular garden guru and his instruction is pure gold. Learn to grow and keep a plant healthy. Learn to read the plants needs and get 3 good harvest under your belt. Then start experimenting !!! and see stuff for yourself, keep an open mind and never put your foot down as this is how we learn new things. I've been growing for over 40 years and I still have experiments going in every grow, my current grow ,,,,

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=295624

Has 4 experiments running at the moment. There are also pics and post that will verify things I'm about to share


My point, new growers, is there are a lot of ways to grow this plant and you need to find what works for you and fills your needs. The best way to do this is try things that you find via reading/research and observe the results for yourself.

As already stated the flushing debate has gone on for many years and I have always stood on the flushing is bad side. If you actually go read my post on the truth about flushing you'll see it does have links to science backing up the points, but I have been told there are dead links now these years later. Doesn't matter, I'm not here to pimp the article or to argue, I'm here to settle this decades long debate and give the other side their science lol.

Yeppers, both sides are right in terms of the finished product and for new growers this may well be the most important thing I share with you today. Good buds, non harsh, white ash, tasty buds are the result of a proper cure ,,,,,,, period ! Bad taste, harshness, snap crackle pop and black ash are the result of unfermented sugars, not nutes and are the result of a bad/improper cure ,,,,,,, period ! Take a teaspoon of sugar and apply a flame to it, you'll see what I mean. It is of utmost importance that you learn how to properly cure em !!!

I myself, do things very differently then most, when my plants are ready to harvest I water em with boiling water, then leave em under the lights for 3~4 days I keep em green and healthy, I use chem nutes and I don't flush at the end. If you read my grow journal, you'll see independent smoke reports that describe my buds. I invented and use a fermentation chamber to dry and cure my herb and it is based on the way tobacco and other plants are cured, a brief description,,,,

Quote:
In general, curing can be divided into three distinct stages: yellowing, leaf drying, and stem drying. The first stage can be described as a period of major chemical conversions and color development. Air temperature in the barn is maintained between 30 and 40°C, with relative humidity of 80 to 95%, (5,12) for about 48 h or until the leaves turn yellow. In the second stage, air temperature in the barn is increased gradually to 50 or 60°C, while relative humidity is lowered to allow more rapid moisture removal. This stage lasts for 36 to 72 h (12). The last stage (stem drying) generally requires 36 to 48 h. Air temperature is increased to 74°C with further decrease of relative humidity to permit rapid drying of the midrib.
From Here ,,,,
https://boltonsmokersclub.wordpress....or-cigarettes/

There are pics of my fermentation chamber in my journal. note: I do not use the extreme temps & humidity, but the stages do occur as described in my process.

The science is basic and simple and is also very well known. In the absence of O2 (oxygen) ALL plants go into a survival mode converting sugars into alcohol known as fermentation (what we call the cure) I have attached a pic that shows this process.

My watering with boiling water imitates a flood condition and starves the roots of O2. N is the major component for the required energy to properly convert the sugars to alcohol and once I boil em they start pullin on the leaves because they can no longer get nutes from the roots.

Here is the science with regard to how plants handle floods ,,,,

Quote:
There are many types of fermentative bacteria in soils, such as the genus Bacillus, Clostridium, and Lactobacillus. 4 ATP molecules per molecule of glucose are produced by fermentation, while 38 ATP molecules are produced by aerobic respiration. Although the energy yield via fermentation is less than respiration, fermentation plays an important role in anaerobic respiration for obligate and facultative anaerobic bacteria, including denitrifier, Fe3+, Mn4+, SO42-, reducers, and methanogens. Sugar (glucose or fructose) is broken down into simple compounds (e.g. formate, acetate, and ethanol) during fermentation. Also, numerous fermentation products, such as carbon dioxide, fatty acid, lactic, alcohols, are released into soils. These compounds serve as substrates for other anaerobic bacteria. Thus, low molecular weight organic compounds produced from fermentation influence the reduction of Fe(III), Mn(IV), SO42-, and CO2(Richardson And Vepraskas 2000).
From Here ,,,,,
https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index...xic_Conditions

When you flush at the end or limit the nute regimen and cause the plants to fade you are taking away the "other" way that plants get and use O2 which is via gas exchange thru the stomata. As leaves fade and die the stomata are decreased and you thereby decrease the gas exchange and access to O2 once again causing the plant go into survival mode.

Here is the science ,,,,

Quote:
Green plants require oxygen for normal growth and development. The energy released in cellular respiration, from the breakdown of carbohydrates and complex organic molecules, consumes oxygen and releases CO2. Most plants respire continuously, day and night, requiring a continuous supply of oxygen. Anaerobic respiration or fermentation occurs in the absence of oxygen. The products of this form of respiration are often deleterious to the plant and the energy released is relatively small compared to aerobic respiration. Roots also require oxygen for aerobic respiration which they obtain directly from the growing media. The absorption of salts and root extension are dependent upon the energy supplied from respiration.
From Here ,,,,
https://www.hydrofarm.com/resources/...lantgrowth.php

Folks this is Botany 101, there is nothing complicated about it. The advantage of the method that ThaiBliss describes is that in the low dose feeding the required energy to process the sugars properly is available and the swelling being described is because the roots are still functioning though not at peak performance levels.

In the end both camps are right for different reasons. IMO the flush, low dose feed and fade methods will enhance the flavor profile (the fading of tea leaves is how different flavors are obtained) For me this occurs in my chamber. The keep em green camp feed till the end are getting better yields and have healthier stress resistant plants.

This natural process still occurs even if you don't boil, flood, or flush/fade your plants it simply takes a bit longer and requires a different mindset as to how you dry. You want em to dry slowly to take advantage of the process to obtain a proper cure. Back in the day we dried em in bundles wrapped in sheets to facilitate this process.

Two other practices widely known are to girdle the stems and/or to break the stems knocking the plants over before harvest. Both of these methods require a few weeks for results to occur properly.

And there you have it the science that explains why it all works and as I said earlier growers should try all methods and discover what works best for them !!!!
Attached Files:
 
H

harris hawk

Well-Known Member
One should "flush" plant every week (1 day) to remove any build-up of salts and nutrients. Just use water one time a week along with your feeding schedule
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Just a note and maybe some insight but I fed my girls a nasty smelling growth hormone. After harvesting the first few early plants I basically stopped feeding the others and just added plain water to the res. after two weeks I completed the harvest and there was a noticeable difference in the taste of the two harvests, the later being much better and no hormone taste. How would flushing remove this or was it in fact the flushing at all?
 
Trousers

Trousers

Well-Known Member
ugorg said:
flushing rids the soil of built up salts and nutes so flushing get rid off all in the soil so your plant will use all its stored energy and give the buds a more smother smoke rather then smoking nutes and getting a head ake
I would say flush but some do some don't
Click to expand...

no, that is bullshit


harris hawk said:
One should "flush" plant every week (1 day) to remove any build-up of salts and nutrients. Just use water one time a week along with your feeding schedule
Click to expand...
For all soil?
For organic soil grows?
For all hydro?

That is another problem with the flushing myth.
Is feeding with plain water really flushing?
Is feeding with plain water in hydro due to over feeding?

Running a lot of water through soil is a terrible idea. Feeding with plain water in addition to one's synthetic feed in soil is not a terrible idea.
 
BDOGKush

BDOGKush

Well-Known Member
cowboyferg said:
if it don't flush chems and stuff why do people flush last week or so before harvest?
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Because they've never grown anything else in their life. The first plant they ever grew was Marijuana, they jumped on forums like this and ate up all the growing myths concerning weed instead of learning some basic plant biology.

Then some of those same people end up becoming regarded as some kind of growing guru and continue to spread misinformation. New growers get caught up in the "Well Cervantes does it" mentality and never question anything they've been told.

So we get tons of people who flush for no other reason than they saw or heard of someone else doing it.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I stand with Riddle on this one......I do the green to finish and partake of a long slow dry and cure like certain cigar wrappers get.....I've toured cigar tobacco dry and cure operations.......Several differing methods for the tobaccos of cigars as for the part of the cigar they are used....
In touring tobacco fields. I once asked if they "flushed" tobacco at all.....I was given the most perplexed look and had to explain what I meant......I was answered with "What ever for"?

Doc
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
Theres no need to flush..ever

There is no need for soil run off period, certainly not a requirement to remove salt build up..never noticed a build up of some salt

Flushing does not remove chems or remove anything special from the buds.

Over fertilized buds have more chlorophyll etc hence the visible tox, this contributes to fowl taste. It is not chemicals sucked from nutes but rather the taken in nitrogen formed chlorophyll thats the problem.

Flushing will not lower nutes in the buds for the most part. The plant eats older leaves first preserving the bud in a low nute environment.
Flushing can help bring over fertilized buds back to homeostasis but not a "low" environment in need of a nute. Flushing can help take the bid back to how it should have been if grown properly.


A properly grown plant should never get flushed...ever

Treat bud like any other "connoisseur" produce or tobacco. Wine and tobacco being the most talked about
 
A

althor

Well-Known Member
qwizoking said:
Theres no need to flush..ever

There is no need for soil run off period, certainly not a requirement to remove salt build up..never noticed a build up of some salt

Flushing does not remove chems or remove anything special from the buds.

Over fertilized buds have more chlorophyll etc hence the visible tox, this contributes to fowl taste. It is not chemicals sucked from nutes but rather the taken in nitrogen formed chlorophyll thats the problem.

Flushing will not lower nutes in the buds for the most part. The plant eats older leaves first preserving the bud in a low nute environment.
Flushing can help bring over fertilized buds back to homeostasis but not a "low" environment in need of a nute. Flushing can help take the bid back to how it should have been if grown properly.


A properly grown plant should never get flushed...ever

Treat bud like any other "connoisseur" produce or tobacco. Wine and tobacco being the most talked about
Click to expand...
"There is no need to flush... ever"

That is no true at all, there are reasons to flush. Might not be for flavor/taste... but yeah, there are reasons to flush, toxicity problems for one.
 
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