supersoilish help / myco madness

[semajkroy]

so I've been working on my "supersoilish" recipe for close to a year now with one grow under my belt that I think was pretty successful 5 ozs off two plants vegged 30 days under 400 watt hps , anyways now IM growing 12/12 from seed and clones as its the only way to keep a flow and I want to make sure my mixes are suitable and not too hot for a range of mostly indica strains in 2 gallon smart pots
my soils go as

starter soil :
7 gallon container with
1 part vermiculite
1 part miracle grow organic
1 part seedling starter mix (sphagnum peat , dolomite , perilite mostly)
I also add 1/2 cup of jobes fast start (4-4-2) and also has jobes biozome
and 1/2 cup of jobes garden tone (2-4-4) I think , they live in this from seedling to a month old , I'm not to concerned with this mix as I've used it for a while with no burn and great growth and rootballs at transplant from solo cups to the two gallon smart pots

finishing mix all of this is in a 20 gallon container , roughly 2.5 cuft
BASE :
1.5 cu ft Fox farm ocean forest
5 lbs ewc
vermiculite
perilite
seedling starter mix
river pebbles
FOOD:
1 cup fishbone meal
2 cups jones garden tone
2 cups jobes fast start
2 cups kelp meal
a handful of Peruvian seabird guano (less than a cup)
MINERAL:
1 cup azomite
1 cup soft rock phosphate
also a couple handfuls of pelletized dolomite for a slower release
I transplant them at a month old into this mix in 2 gallon smart pots I'm a little concerned with this mix being too hot I only have one northern lights going in this mix at the moment has been in it for close to a month without any problems

now my questions ... I picked up some liquid karma today and plan on only using it once there in there final pots twice a week at 2 tsp per gallon ( theyre drinking about a half a gallon every other day at a little over 2 months from seed) should I use more or less or sounds like a good plan)
also I got some free samples of myco madness today and by some I mean alot and would like to add it, because why not, from an hr of research I understand they don't become "active" until they're roots present for them to do they're magic with so should I add it to my soil same as an amendment and if so how much per cu ft ? Or should I just water it in like the directions on the samples say and how often ?

thanks for any views and opinions hoping for some solid advice from you much more experienced organic growers

 

[greasemonkeymann]

you have too much food in that second mix man, honestly i'm a lil confused by the whole post.
combine it all, if you don't mind.
how much soil are you making?
couple handfuls of d-lime in 1.5 cubic feet of soil is gonna frrrrrry those ladies man

 

[Bugeye]

Do your mycos at transplants when you can put direct on root ball. Also can be watered in but nothing beats the transplant applications to really get it started. Sort of a waste of time to put it in your soil mix, especially if you are composting it first.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Do your mycos at transplants when you can put direct on root ball. Also can be watered in but nothing beats the transplant applications to really get it started. Sort of a waste of time to put it in your soil mix, especially if you are composting it first.

Absolutely, so true!
What I like to do, is get a spray bottle, fill it with water, and when you transplant, mist the roots with water, that makes the sprinkled myco "stick" to the roots, then I sprinkle that sumbitch well, and drop her in the hole.

 

[semajkroy]

Absolutely, so true!
What I like to do, is get a spray bottle, fill it with water, and when you transplant, mist the roots with water, that makes the sprinkled myco "stick" to the roots, then I sprinkle that sumbitch well, and drop her in the hole.

thanks for the replies .. I will try your way with the mycos so no real set amount just mix some with water and spray and sprinkle some more in the hole? And IM sorry my mix was confusing , all together my second mix contains 2.5 cft of soil so all that food is for 2.5 cft ... 1.5 cft of ffof and vermiculite,seed starter mix and perilitr make up the other 1 cft

 

[greasemonkeymann]

thanks for the replies .. I will try your way with the mycos so no real set amount just mix some with water and spray and sprinkle some more in the hole? And IM sorry my mix was confusing , all together my second mix contains 2.5 cft of soil so all that food is for 2.5 cft ... 1.5 cft of ffof and vermiculite,seed starter mix and perilitr make up the other 1 cft

leave out the d-lime, I would anyways.
oh and you don't mix the myco with water, unless that's a new method.
I spray the roots with just water, and then I sprinkle the myco on top

 

[semajkroy]

leave out the d-lime, I would anyways.
oh and you don't mix the myco with water, unless that's a new method.
I spray the roots with just water, and then I sprinkle the myco on top

ok thanks for the help I will follow your advice on that , idk if its a new method but the instructions on the packaging say mix a .5 tsp with 1 gallon of water and water in , I'm fine with this method to I really just wondered if it was pointless or not to go ahead and mix it in with my soil, and why would you leave out the d-lime most organic growers advise using some to buffer ph , not saying your wrong just curious

 

[greasemonkeymann]

ok thanks for the help I will follow your advice on that , idk if its a new method but the instructions on the packaging say mix a .5 tsp with 1 gallon of water and water in , I'm fine with this method to I really just wondered if it was pointless or not to go ahead and mix it in with my soil, and why would you leave out the d-lime most organic growers advise using some to buffer ph , not saying your wrong just curious

don't follow the instructions man, microbiology tells us more than the manufacturer that WANTS you to use UP their product... so you go buy more... You only need myco at transplant, adding to your aging soil is pointless, the myco is consumed by all the different microbes you have in the soil, trichodermas in particular. There are many types of microbes, with long latin names, and I can't recall any others, but what i'm saying is that the myco is essentially foodstock if you don't add it to the roots.
DISCLAIMER-- I haven't witnessed this with my own eyes, nor do I own a fancy four figure microscope, I am merely repeating what I have read from people that have witnessed it, and do own fancy microscopes.
I wouldn't add d-lime because everything you are adding to your mix is already ph'ed, (probably with lime)
And you are correct, most organic growers do indeed advise to adding something to buffer the ph, in fact i'd say most organic growers don't like d-lime for that.
Oyster meal/flour, biochar, oyster shell, gypsum, quality compost, etc.
Keep in mind us nerdy organic growers usually use pure peat as the base, which would need something to counter the ph later as it reacts with the organic nutrients (many of which are naturally acidic).
BUT your mix, everything is already "limed" so adding more isn't a good idea, in my opinion.
read the back of the ingredients of the bagged soils you are using as your base, all will have dolomite in them.
Besides, 12/12 straight from seed into a 2 gallon? the plant won't even have time to have ph issues.

 

[semajkroy]

I am going to try the packaging instructions for

don't follow the instructions man, microbiology tells us more than the manufacturer that WANTS you to use UP their product... so you go buy more... You only need myco at transplant, adding to your aging soil is pointless, the myco is consumed by all the different microbes you have in the soil, trichodermas in particular. There are many types of microbes, with long latin names, and I can't recall any others, but what i'm saying is that the myco is essentially foodstock if you don't add it to the roots.
DISCLAIMER-- I haven't witnessed this with my own eyes, nor do I own a fancy four figure microscope, I am merely repeating what I have read from people that have witnessed it, and do own fancy microscopes.
I wouldn't add d-lime because everything you are adding to your mix is already ph'ed, (probably with lime)
And you are correct, most organic growers do indeed advise to adding something to buffer the ph, in fact i'd say most organic growers don't like d-lime for that.
Oyster meal/flour, biochar, oyster shell, gypsum, quality compost, etc.
Keep in mind us nerdy organic growers usually use pure peat as the base, which would need something to counter the ph later as it reacts with the organic nutrients (many of which are naturally acidic).
BUT your mix, everything is already "limed" so adding more isn't a good idea, in my opinion.
read the back of the ingredients of the bagged soils you are using as your base, all will have dolomite in them.
Besides, 12/12 straight from seed into a 2 gallon? the plant won't even have time to have ph issues.

thanks so much for all the advice you are very helpful I will definetly take your advice with the mycos at transplant I guess I'm trying to become an organic nerd also so if you don't mind me picking your brain a little more .... This is just my own theory it may be completely ridiculous and if so please tell me , when I would do q beg period for a month i was using more nitrogen in my mix , since I've started 12/12 from seed I've cut out blood meal BC I didn't think it would be necessary and also why I cut back on the guana and added more bonemeal , I understand they will go through a negative stage still for the first month or so but am I wrong in thinking I need more P than N growing 12/12 from seed ? And IM glad to hear thats not really enough time to even worry about ph I will cut out the dlime you make a good point that most of the soil I use is limed I was just worried it wasn't enough with all the food in my soil , i had thought about using oyster shell instead of the lime .. Should i ? Or just keep my money ?

 

[Wetdog]

GMM ... Not much I disagree you with (spot on with the mycos BTW), but I do disagree about the D-Lime. This from many years of using it with zero problems.

Even way before I got into organics I was making my own peat, perlite, pine bark fines mix (since 1972). This was using Jack's Classic (Peters back then), and it was designed to be used with a limed mix, no Ca or Mg in it. The only times I had problems was when I forgot the lime. I've also double dosed a few times with no effect. Both situations were caused by mixing while drunk/stoned. LOL

Now, I see all this bias directed towards d-lime (this is general, not directed at you), on the net, claiming dire results if used, that frankly I'ne never seen in 40 years or so.

I don't use OSF simply because of shipping cost, ~$45 for a $12 product. But do use the equivalent calcitic Ag Lime that is available locally. This is for my raised beds that are mostly red clay and Mg buildup is a concern. Dolomite for my container mixes where this isn't a concern and is much cheaper. The Ag lime is ~4x the cost of dolomite, $16 vs $4.50.

Anyway, just wanted to say that D-Lime is not the bugaboo that it's been made out to be.

Wet

 

[greasemonkeymann]

GMM ... Not much I disagree you with (spot on with the mycos BTW), but I do disagree about the D-Lime. This from many years of using it with zero problems.

Even way before I got into organics I was making my own peat, perlite, pine bark fines mix (since 1972). This was using Jack's Classic (Peters back then), and it was designed to be used with a limed mix, no Ca or Mg in it. The only times I had problems was when I forgot the lime. I've also double dosed a few times with no effect. Both situations were caused by mixing while drunk/stoned. LOL

Now, I see all this bias directed towards d-lime (this is general, not directed at you), on the net, claiming dire results if used, that frankly I'ne never seen in 40 years or so.

I don't use OSF simply because of shipping cost, ~$45 for a $12 product. But do use the equivalent calcitic Ag Lime that is available locally. This is for my raised beds that are mostly red clay and Mg buildup is a concern. Dolomite for my container mixes where this isn't a concern and is much cheaper. The Ag lime is ~4x the cost of dolomite, $16 vs $4.50.

Anyway, just wanted to say that D-Lime is not the bugaboo that it's been made out to be.

Wet

I hear ya man, but you sorta made my point as well, I mentioned that the times you NEED a liming agent, is when you are using peat, or in your case both pine bark as well as peat (both are acidic if I remember correctly)
So of course you mix would suffer without it, as well as the reasons you pointed out (needing ca and mg)
I never said I think d-lime isn't useful, I just said that for THAT job, I prefer something that does more than one thing at a time, meaning oyster flour, biochar, gypsum and the like bring MUCH more to the table than just d-lime.
I also don't really prefer extremely ewater soluble things that change the ph that drastically.
I agree with you, d-lime absolutely has it's uses, I just don't use it personally.
my point was mainly that his mix was already ph corrected, and therefore adding more wasn't a good idea (in my opinion)

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I am going to try the packaging instructions for

thanks so much for all the advice you are very helpful I will definetly take your advice with the mycos at transplant I guess I'm trying to become an organic nerd also so if you don't mind me picking your brain a little more .... This is just my own theory it may be completely ridiculous and if so please tell me , when I would do q beg period for a month i was using more nitrogen in my mix , since I've started 12/12 from seed I've cut out blood meal BC I didn't think it would be necessary and also why I cut back on the guana and added more bonemeal , I understand they will go through a negative stage still for the first month or so but am I wrong in thinking I need more P than N growing 12/12 from seed ? And IM glad to hear thats not really enough time to even worry about ph I will cut out the dlime you make a good point that most of the soil I use is limed I was just worried it wasn't enough with all the food in my soil , i had thought about using oyster shell instead of the lime .. Should i ? Or just keep my money ?

personally I like ample amounts of nitrogen in my soil at ALL times. it's absolute hydro myth that cannabis EVER goes through a growth phase where it doesn't need nitrogen.
I don't think you'll need to worry about the ph, in reality. Going straight to 12/12 in that mix (which is stabilized) for a 2 gallon pot, I doubt you'll need anything.
now if you reuse your soil, that's totally different.

 

[semajkroy]

personally I like ample amounts of nitrogen in my soil at ALL times. it's absolute hydro myth that cannabis EVER goes through a growth phase where it doesn't need nitrogen.
I don't think you'll need to worry about the ph, in reality. Going straight to 12/12 in that mix (which is stabilized) for a 2 gallon pot, I doubt you'll need anything.
now if you reuse your soil, that's totally different.

ok thanks , and thanks too wet too I definetly have a better understanding of when to use d lime now, gmm I agree they need N through all phases my thought and question was use less N and more P when going 12/12 from seed?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

ok thanks , and thanks too wet too I definetly have a better understanding of when to use d lime now, gmm I agree they need N through all phases my thought and question was use less N and more P when going 12/12 from seed?

nah, I wouldn't, remember the ratio isn't the "quantity" it the %
So they need that % just less of it.
I like alfalfa meal, crab meal, shrimp meals, for nitrogen, the alfalfa is available quickly, while the shrimp/crab meal is slower.
Also neem is a good nutrient as well for nitrogen, as well as a IPM.
If you like bat guano you can use that too.

 

[semajkroy]

nah, I wouldn't, remember the ratio isn't the "quantity" it the %
So they need that % just less of it.
I like alfalfa meal, crab meal, shrimp meals, for nitrogen, the alfalfa is available quickly, while the shrimp/crab meal is slower.
Also neem is a good nutrient as well for nitrogen, as well as a IPM.
If you like bat guano you can use that too.

IPM ?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

IPM ?

Sorry, integrated pest management. Neem meal in the soil can keep a lot of soil dwelling critters away (fungus gnats in particular)
Other things like crab meal, shrimp meal, insect meal, things that have chitin in it, can also help (in theory), and can be referred to as such.
IPMs can also be routine foliar sprayings, or whatever in the hell you use to keep the pests AWAY, as opposed to combatting them when you get them.
in other words if you add neem meal, crab meal, and buckets full of pure chitin, that's not gonna do squat against a pest that you have already.
but it can mean the difference between having them "move in".