Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread
- Thread starter headtreep
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Never had that happen to me. I would say just drop it an hour every once and a while if your real worried. Maybe drop the time to 14 on 10 off for a day or two and then increase it to whatever you want. Might trick it?
GreenSanta
Well-Known Member
If you guys think plants need to rest in the dark, I think its a misconception. Why is it that Alaska always break world record on largest veggies? I believe plants will ''shut down'' for a part of the day whether they are getting a dark period or not.
My main reason for doing 24/7 in veg room is because it makes for a more versatile veg room where I can reveg and or clone (also why is it we get better results cloning with 24/7 if roots development occurs in the dark?
If you dont clone or reveg, then by all mean 18-6 schedule makes more sense but I wouldnt be worry, just use the veg schedule that works for you.
My main reason for doing 24/7 in veg room is because it makes for a more versatile veg room where I can reveg and or clone (also why is it we get better results cloning with 24/7 if roots development occurs in the dark?
If you dont clone or reveg, then by all mean 18-6 schedule makes more sense but I wouldnt be worry, just use the veg schedule that works for you.
ShLUbY
Well-Known Member
cellular respiration never stops, but light dependent reactions aka photosynthesis stops in darkness, which has nothing to do with cellular respiration. the plant never "shuts down". a lot of the processes that keep a plant running are a cyclic exchange of electrons and ions along with the forming and breaking of bonds in carrier molecules. these processes don't "shut down" in cellular respiration. just saying.
photosynthesis begins when chlorophyll is activated by light energy, and electron transport chain starts in the thylakoid cells i believe they're called. when light energy can no longer be accepted, ETC stops, proton pumps shut down, and the photosynthesis shuts down.
GreenSanta
Well-Known Member
thanks for clearing this up, kinda what I meant 
ShLUbY
Well-Known Member
not really, but you're welcome lol.
Theres a few reasons to use cover crops, main reason for me with cover crops is to "TILL" your no till beds because it will compact over time. Their roots till compacted soil, your previous crops old roots does the same as well. Some no tillers use gypsum and have worms in their soil beds for that reason also. Cover crops are supposed to die off when your canopy shades off all the light and be gone by the time you harvest. You then sprinkle more cover crop seeds on top at the beginning of each round then cover it with your compost/vermicompost and add your amendments. That being said, I dont see much reason to use it indoors in small pots. I stopped using cover crops myself. Different stokes for different folks, I dont have time to keep mixing up dirt so I no till. Works just as good if not better than any other soil recipe.
Trichome_Madness
Member
Hey everyone. I hate to be "that guy" but I just recently started researching about organics these last couple of months and happened upon this thread about a week ago. I've been reading steadily but the amount of time it would take to get through 324 pages is insane. I have researched a good bit on super soil and was getting ready to go shopping to make my first batch until I started reading about the no till mainly because I was trying to find info on recycling super soil.so to the point, I'm still a couple years behind in this thread and was hoping Yall could share some of your up to date amendment/tea recipes, or at the least post me a link. I am currently running ebb and flow in coco and would like to dive into organics asap. That being said I know it's going to take a while to get some compost ready so I would also like some advice on a quick soil and nute mix I could throw together to get me started and keep me going while I create my own living soil.. Any aand all help is greatly appreciated.
ShLUbY
Well-Known Member
hey man. I'm new as well to organics and I'm currently putting together my first mixes. i'm almost ready to plant 2 of my 20 gal no tills.
it took me about a week to read through the whole thread, but honestly the bulk of the information is in the first 75-100 pages. the rest i would just read leisurely. the information, honestly, has not changed very much at all. Lots of guy are running the basic mix that CANN posted on the first page about 3/4 of the way down. I lay off the rock dust to about 2-3 cups per cu.ft. a batch i just put together i'm doing the bio-char challenge just for the hell of it. maybe it will be worth the effort (which is not much) and i dunno 5 bucks i spent on 1.5 gal of biochar i charged myself.
The main thing i can not stress to you enough is LET THE PLANT GROW ITSELF in organics. take care of the soil, FOCUS on the SOIL. soil health = plant health = the best herb man can grow indoors. microbes make food available for the plants, so keep your microbe populations happy and you have a happy environment.
KISS... keep it stupid simple. all the nutrient teas, enzyme teas, aloe drenchs, bioag products, living mulchs, and all that stuff are just little tips and tricks. you can honestly go START TO FINISH on just the soil, and a couple AACT's (compost teas) in the plant's cycle. water only. no ph, no worries. there are lots of guys on here that have plenty of evidence of this, and you will see it in the thread. the finest herb out there.
you asked about a simple soil mix and nute line to help you transition while you wait on soil to break down. One thing i am doing right now while i'm waiting on my microbes to do their thing in the soil, is just using the base mix + rock dust + oyster shell flour + pelletized gypsum. i'll be using compost tea once every 3-4 weeks on these plants and I picked up the vegamatrix line of bottles to run the plants i have in veg through flower and eventually i will phase out the vegamatrix when i have enough living soil in house.
that is all for now. see you around! good luck to ya.
Trichome_Madness
Member
Thnx for the info. Ido plan to take a kiss aproach as that is wat im already doing. The biochar is interesting and i always have hardwood lump coal to keep the smoker bbq'n on the weekends so ill pulverize some and add it to the compost pile.What would you recommend as a base soil to start with? Also are there other amendments i could mix in that dont have to break down like ewc,maby kelp or somthing, so i dont have to buy any more bottles?I already have gh nutes that will be useless after my current grow.I also am curious if anyone can enlighten me why sub's ss recipe used straight burns plants but this method does not?
I use homemade worm poo, Gypsum, Neem meal, Crab meal, Kelp, diatomaceous earth, brown rice, and alfalfa. All of these can be added to a soil mix and planted immediately except for the alfalfa. I always put alfalfa on top of my soil and let the worms drag it around. That should cover every base of the plants needs. I always put worm filled EWC on top of any of the amendments I lay down in my no till pot. Now you just have to figure out when to lay this down and that comes with learning your plants needs. Eventually you can get into fermented plant extracts and that is where the money is. I now feed the amendments to my FPE plants and use the FPE on my important plants.
I would go with 33% aeration, 33% filler like peat or some organic material like mediocre compost (but alive), 33% worm poo. The reason I don't go 66% worm poo is because it is very wet and nutrient rich (sometimes a bad thing). Biochar is bitchin'!
It has to do with the way the microbes process the material. In high nitrogen amendments like alfalfa and blood meal they heat up the soil. Not only that but they also process that material and turn it into organic salts (or salts). This water binding salt conversion happens with all organic nutrients, but not the heat. The heat and the salts limit then amount of water getting to the plant and it can cause the roots to dry out. Basically because of lack of water because microbes use the material and water then put out salts which binds the water up. This lack of water and heat in the root system then quickly kills the plant because the roots are all dying or dead.
I hope that makes sense
edit:
I also want to point out that most pots will not make it to the end if they are not oversized. I run HUGE pots so I can feed a massive amount of nutrients after each harvest to the soil. Then plant a baby and watch it go. However, this is a bad practice unless you also get your soil tested.
Trichome_Madness
Member
The main concern is that Im only using a 3x3 space.what size pots would Yall recommend I start seedlings in and what would be the smallest size I could run through flower without having to top dress halfway through.iv read that the plants should fade on there own but I would like to insure that happens. Just personal preference cause I love to see the colors come through.
Also could I use straight coco in place of peat or does peat hold a better colony?
Also could I use straight coco in place of peat or does peat hold a better colony?
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ShLUbY
Well-Known Member
start seedlings in solos and transplant up to 1 gal once they grow up a bit. no bigger than that. then after 3-4 weeks you can put them in whatever you want to.
there are debates about the coco vs. peat. certain people like one or the other. i haven't done any mixes with coco yet but i plan to just for my own experiments.
i would say if you did 4 medium sized plants in 7 gal fabrics 3x3 should be fine. you'll definitely have good light coverage on that canopy. i'd say you want them to finish no taller than 40" (including the height of the pot) in that space.
Trichome_Madness
Member
I ask because currently I'm running in straight coco and I love everything about it besides the fact that I have to add all the nutes in. I think It would be better to use as a replacement for perlite or pumice.i would still use a layer of perlite on the bottom of the pot though.
How tall are 7 gallon smartpots? I should be able to achieve minimal height especially since I'm also gonna experiment with mainlining( that's how I found out about RIU) wich should be very helpful because the cross I made stretches like a Mofo.
But anyway, thanks for your thoughts I am hitting the hydro store tomarrow and I didnt want to spend money on stuff I don't need.
How tall are 7 gallon smartpots? I should be able to achieve minimal height especially since I'm also gonna experiment with mainlining( that's how I found out about RIU) wich should be very helpful because the cross I made stretches like a Mofo.
But anyway, thanks for your thoughts I am hitting the hydro store tomarrow and I didnt want to spend money on stuff I don't need.
Do you use any other sources of silica other than DE?
ShLUbY
Well-Known Member
you can not replace the drainage with coco. the humus is very heavy when wet and will compact the coco down if there is no aeration. Pumice provides not only drainage, but also holds pockets of air within the pumice stone and also retains water at the same time. But wait, there's more! Pumice or other sources of aeration (rice hulls, lava rock which also contains silica @NoTiller, bio char, etc.) provide habitat for your microbes! this is why you need to keep your drainage material. I've read on here that perlite is not good for microbes but i'm not sure how factual that is, haven't looked into it myself.
as for the containers, 7 gal is plenty of soil to do some long runners in like the 10-12 weekers. i'm starting to experiment with some fabric pots in the near future that are 7 and 10 gal. all my 20gal no tils i've mixed so far are fabric. i don't have any experience with the smart pots yet, they're just in the lineup.
I would go with a 30 gallon minimum to get the best and most care free growth. There are some fabric pots that also feature a transplanting fabric pot. I would go with that. Honestly I would get as big of pots as you can and stuff your room full of soil. You have a lot more leeway that way. I found smaller pots were only a headache.
I used to to use protekt until I ran out. I read online that the soil is at least 30% silicon by weight. I am trying to mimic nature so I started adding tons of forms of silica. Even though it isn't readily soluble it aids the soil structure. The application of protekt does a lot more than adding DE I just don't want another bottle. If you want to add silica and see results I would use the agsil or protekt.
