Reverse Engineering everyone's nutrients

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
Do you have any good DIY recipes for Chitosan or Triacontanol?
Chitosan and Tiacontanal are both specific chemical compounds in the exact same way that mono ammonium phosphate or calcium nitrate, common base fertilizers, are. They are not created via dissolving water soluble compounds in water. There are far more complex processes involved. Chitosan is a product of crustacean shells and 1-Triacontanal is an extract of a number of waxes. Both can be purchased in powder form.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Do you have any good DIY recipes for Chitosan or Triacontanol?
Chitosan and Tiacontanal are both specific chemical compounds in the exact same way that mono ammonium phosphate or calcium nitrate, common base fertilizers, are. They are not created via dissolving water soluble compounds in water. There are far more complex processes involved. Chitosan is a product of crustacean shells and 1-Triacontanal is an extract of a number of waxes. Both can be purchased in powder form.
I can help here. Believe it or not, you can easily make your own triacontanol extract using alfalfa and calcium nitrate. You can gather fresh alfalfa or buy pellets made for animal feed, both work. Chop it up and place it in hot water, about 150f, with some calcium nitrate. The calcium binds with the triacontanol and helps pull it out of the alfalfa and into solution. Let it sit at this temperature for thirty minutes, then strain off the solids. Let the liquid cool and then add to your feeding regimen. Foliar sprays are also purported to work well. I've done it in veg with results I found hard to manage, lol
 

HydroNito305

Well-Known Member
I can help here. Believe it or not, you can easily make your own triacontanol extract using alfalfa and calcium nitrate. You can gather fresh alfalfa or buy pellets made for animal feed, both work. Chop it up and place it in hot water, about 150f, with some calcium nitrate. The calcium binds with the triacontanol and helps pull it out of the alfalfa and into solution. Let it sit at this temperature for thirty minutes, then strain off the solids. Let the liquid cool and then add to your feeding regimen. Foliar sprays are also purported to work well. I've done it in veg with results I found hard to manage, lol
Would this be a cheap DIY replacement for Canna Boost?
 

HydroNito305

Well-Known Member
Chitosan and Tiacontanal are both specific chemical compounds in the exact same way that mono ammonium phosphate or calcium nitrate, common base fertilizers, are. They are not created via dissolving water soluble compounds in water. There are far more complex processes involved. Chitosan is a product of crustacean shells and 1-Triacontanal is an extract of a number of waxes. Both can be purchased in powder form.
So a good source of Chitosan would be something like Crab Meal, correct?
 

HydroNito305

Well-Known Member
Also is it possible that Canna Boost contains both of these elements instead of either one or the other? Lots of people seem to think it's either/or without thinking it can possibly contain both simutaneously?
 

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
Also is it possible that Canna Boost contains both of these elements instead of either one or the other? Lots of people seem to think it's either/or without thinking it can possibly contain both simutaneously?
Possible, sure. But until I finish working on mineral based blends and start on the organics, I won't know. I do aim to find out in cases like these.
 

HydroNito305

Well-Known Member
Possible, sure. But until I finish working on mineral based blends and start on the organics, I won't know. I do aim to find out in cases like these.
Would one be able to have satisfactory results with one of the cheaper mineral based fertilizer blends, which are usually readily available at places like Home Depot or Lowe's for dirt cheap, such as this one for example?

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CC Dobbs

Well-Known Member
So, I've been lurking here for a while. I've used lots of different types of nutrients. And this thread is NOT a discussion of what nutrients are the best or what to use when or anything of the sort. I'll be honest, I mix my own blends according to very specific values and base all additions based on current water quality, not because I am following some calculator.

This thread is simply one thing: a reverse engineering of major brands of nutrients. That is, I break down a nutrient blend into the fertilizers they are made from.

What's the benefit of doing this? Well, it can save you a fucking lot of money if you buy 50lb bags or what ever from a local fertilizer retailer and measure it all out yourself. I will not tell you any specific retailers because I'm not here to advertise for a fertilizer retailer. Find someone local, that's all. It's not that hard. It might not be your local hydro store either.

Concentrations in miligrams per liter. (mg/l) That is, this is the amount of fertilizer you should add to a liter of RO water when you make it yourself. This allows you to use the same formulations you have always been using, but makes it less expensive. All of the fertilizers need to be added to RO water and then used as you would normally use them.

When I list the guaranteed analysis of a fertilizer or nutrient blend, the percentages typically have an accuracy of +/-0.05% or so for the macro nutrients and +/-0.0005% for the micronutrients. This means there is wiggle room with what what I show as equivalent. In addition, the guaranteed analysis of a blend lists a number of the fertilizers it is derived from. These are not always needed when reverse engineering them.

To measure these out you need a precision balance for the macronutrient fertilizers and you will need an analytical balance for the micronutrient fertilizers, the chelates. The precision balance will be used to measure out larger quantities of a fertilizer which is beneficial if you are making 5 or 10 gallons at a time. They tend to cost $400-800 and have an accuracy of +/- 0.1 to 0.5g. You can get ones that can read up to about 15,000g. The analytical balance costs $1200-5000 and is used for measuring <300g. Some have max masses of 200g. They tend to have accuracies of +/- 0.1mg(0.0001g) and are necessary for the smaller quantities of micronutrients as the amount you add might be actually smaller than the accuracy of the precision balance.

Cultured Solutions Veg A:

Veg A has a guaranteed analysis that is the following,:
N total: 5%
Nitrate-N, N-NO3: 4.6%
Ammoniacal-N, N-NH4: 0.4%
Urea-N, N-NH2: 0%
Phosphorous, P2O5: 0%
Potassium, K2O: 0.3%
Calcium, Ca: 6%
Magnesium, Mg: 0%
Combined Sulfur: 0%
Iron, Fe: 0.057%
Copper, Cu: 0.0035%
Boron, B: 0.015%
Manganese, Mn: 0.017%
Molybdenum, Mo: 0.001%
Zinc, Zn: 0.003%

Derived from:
Ammonium Calcium Nitrate
Potassium Nitrate
Iron EDTA
Copper EDTA
Manganese EDTA
Sodium Molybdate
Sodium Borate
Zinc EDTA

Here is what you need to get that:

Calcium Nitrate: 304,601 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate: 6483.4 mg/l
18% EDTA chelated Iron: 3,166.6 mg/l
18% chelated Manganese: 944.44 mg/l
15% chelated Boron: 1,000 mg/l
20% chelated Zinc: 150 mg/l
17% chelated Copper: 205.88 mg/l
8% chelated Molybdenum: 125 mg/l

This creates a blend that has the following percentages:
N total: 4.945%
Nitrate-N, N-NO3: 4.6%
Ammoniacal-N, N-NH4: 0.345%
Urea-N, N-NH2: 0%
Phosphorous, P2O5: 0%
Potassium, K2O: 0.3%
Calcium, Ca: 5.954%
Magnesium, Mg: 0%
Combined Sulfur: 0%
Iron, Fe: 0.057%
Copper, Cu: 0.0035%
Boron, B: 0.015%
Manganese, Mn: 0.017%
Molybdenum, Mo: 0.001%
Zinc, Zn: 0.003%

Net cost when you buy and measure this out: about $5-10/gallon instead of ~$45 per gallon.

You'll notice I did not have any ammoniacal nitrogen sources, or it appear that way. I do not use specifically Ammonium Calcium Nitrate. This is because the Calcium Nitrate I used has a little bit of N-NH3 in it. It's the Haifa GG Calcium Nitrate. You can buy it from some local fertilizer re-salers.

I also did not use a sodium molybdate or borate and instead decided to use the chelates. I did this because I try to reduce the amount of sodium I use in my hydroponic solutions as it tends to be bad to have above 75ppm of sodium in solution. When growing in soil it is less of an issue.

EDTA is a type of chelate, Iron tends to come in lots of types and the type determines the availability within a ph range. Chelation describes a particular way that ions and molecules bind metal ions. It makes them available to the plants in ways that they otherwise might not be when in solution. To put it simply.

Cultured Solutions Veg B:

Veg B has a guaranteed analysis that is the following,:
N total: 1.3%
Nitrate-N, N-NO3: 1.3%
Ammoniacal-N, N-NH4: 0%
Urea-N, N-NH2: 0%
Phosphorous, P2O5: 2.0%
Potassium, K2O: 5.9%
Calcium, Ca: 0%
Magnesium, Mg: 1.0%
Combined Sulfur: 1.3%

Derived from:
Mono-Potassium Phosphate
Potassium Nitrate
Magnesium Sulfate

Here is what you need to get that:

Mono-Potassium Phosphate: 38,457.32 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate: 98,518.52 mg/l
Magnesium Sulfate: 102,040.80 mg/l

This creates a blend that has the following percentages:
N total: 1.33%
Nitrate-N, N-NO3: 1.33%
Ammoniacal-N, N-NH4: 0.0%
Urea-N, N-NH2: 0%
Phosphorous, P2O5: 2.0%
Potassium, K2O: 5.889%
Calcium, Ca: 0.0%
Magnesium, Mg: 1.0%
Combined Sulfur: 1.327%

Net cost when you buy and measure this out: about $5-10/gallon instead of ~$45 per gallon.

I'll be back later to add the rest of Cultured Solutions. It's late, so I'll add the rest of their product line tomorrow or Saturday and I will continue to add nutrient blends from everyone else as I have time.

What I am not going to do is teach you chemistry so you can understand how I did all this. That would take way too long and I have no interest in teaching people chemistry.

EDITS: More blends.

Cultured Solutions Bloom A:

Bloom A has a guaranteed analysis that is the following,:
N total: 3.7%
Nitrate-N, N-NO3: 3.5%
Ammoniacal-N, N-NH4: 0.2%
Urea-N, N-NH2: 0%
Phosphorous, P2O5: 0%
Potassium, K2O: 3.0%
Calcium, Ca: 3.5%
Magnesium, Mg: 0%
Combined Sulfur: 0%
Iron, Fe: 0.09%
Copper, Cu: 0.0035%
Boron, B: 0.01%
Manganese, Mn: 0.017%
Molybdenum, Mo: 0.002%
Zinc, Zn: 0.007%

Derived from:
Ammonium Calcium Nitrate
Potassium Nitrate
Iron EDTA
Copper EDTA
Manganese EDTA
Sodium Molybdate
Sodium Borate
Zinc EDTA

Here is what you need to get that:

Calcium Nitrate: 181,781.6 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate: 64834.04 mg/l
18% EDTA chelated Iron: 5,000.0 mg/l
18% chelated Manganese: 944.44 mg/l
15% chelated Boron: 666.67 mg/l
20% chelated Zinc: 350.0 mg/l
17% chelated Copper: 205.88 mg/l
8% chelated Molybdenum: 250.0 mg/l

This creates a blend that has the following percentages:
N total: 3.73%
Nitrate-N, N-NO3: 3.53%
Ammoniacal-N, N-NH4: 0.20%
Urea-N, N-NH2: 0%
Phosphorous, P2O5: 0%
Potassium, K2O: 3.0%
Calcium, Ca: 3.45%
Magnesium, Mg: 0%
Combined Sulfur: 0%
Iron, Fe: 0.09%
Copper, Cu: 0.0035%
Boron, B: 0.01%
Manganese, Mn: 0.017%
Molybdenum, Mo: 0.002%
Zinc, Zn: 0.007%

Net cost when you buy and measure this out: about $4-9/gallon instead of ~$45 per gallon.

Cultured Solutions Bloom B:

Bloom B has a guaranteed analysis that is the following,:
N total: 0.9%
Nitrate-N, N-NO3: 0.9%
Ammoniacal-N, N-NH4: 0%
Urea-N, N-NH2: 0%
Phosphorous, P2O5: 4.8%
Potassium, K2O: 6.2%
Calcium, Ca: 0%
Magnesium, Mg: 0.75%
Combined Sulfur: 1.0%

Derived from:
Mono-Potassium Phosphate
Potassium Nitrate
Magnesium Sulfate

Here is what you need to get that:

Mono-Potassium Phosphate: 92,297.58 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate: 65,007.48 mg/l
Magnesium Sulfate: 76,530.61 mg/l

This creates a blend that has the following percentages:
N total: 0.878%
Nitrate-N, N-NO3: 0.878%
Ammoniacal-N, N-NH4: 0%
Urea-N, N-NH2: 0%
Phosphorous, P2O5: 4.8%
Potassium, K2O: 6.2%
Calcium, Ca: 0%
Magnesium, Mg: 0.75%
Combined Sulfur: 1.0%

Net cost when you buy and measure this out: about $4-9/gallon instead of ~$45 per gallon.

For the rest, I'm going to skip the percentages and just give everyone the concentrations of the dry fertilizers.

Cultured Solutions Bud Booster Early

Magnesium Sulfate: 112,244.90 mg/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate: 38,333.34 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate: 37,524.77 mg/l
Mono Potassium Phosphate: 25,551.32 mg/l

Cultured Solutions Bud Booster Mid

Mono Potassium Phosphate: 86528.98 mg/l
Magnesium Sulfate: 71428.57 mg/l
Potassium Sulfate: 33860.50 mg/l

Cultured Solutions Bud Booster Late
This is a solid blend. And the concentrations are in a percentage.
Mono Potassium Phosphate: 67.4%
Magnesium Sulfate: 23.8%
Mono Ammonium Phosphate: 8.8%

Cultured Solutions UC Roots
This is 0.028% solution of hypochlorous acid. This can be made with calcium hypochlorite. I haven't done the math on it yet, but I'll get to it. It's stupidly expensive for what you are buying. Far more than any other of their products.

Advanced Nutrients Cal-Mag
Calcium Nitrate: 170,000.0 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate: 117,708.3 mg/l
18% EDTA chelated Iron: 5,000.0 mg/l
18% chelated Manganese: 2777.78 mg/l
20% chelated Zinc: 2500.0 mg/l

Advanced Nutrients PH-DOWN
This is phosphoric acid. That's it. It's easy to find.

Advanced Nutrients PH-UP
It is not clear from any data you can get, but it's potassium carbonate in solution.

Advanced Nutrients PH PERFECT SENSI GROW PART A 3-0-0
Calcium Nitrate: 157,894.7 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate: 16,253.87 mg/l

Advanced Nutrients PH PERFECT SENSI GROW PART B 1-2-6
Potassium Sulfate(Sulfate of Potash): 72,222.2 mg/l
Mono Potassium Phosphate: 38,457.32 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate: 21,367.93 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate: 20,927.44 mg/l
Hey bro, could you do a breakdown for my fish emulsion? It's made from fish.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Do you happen to have the recipe for Cannazym by any chance?
Basically it's fermented barley. That's what all the zymes are. Pondzymes are more concentrated versions that cost less. Allow me to dig up a link to verify this though (the barley part) as it's off the top of my head.

First link I found linked to another forum but yeah.. seems to confirm.

1L of pondzyme is used for 150,000 gallons of water... so you know.. yeah.
 
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