Reverse Engineering everyone's nutrients

[MisterBlah]

Also, I've launched Open Salt. It's got everything there right now. I'll be building a database this weekend to make things easier to manage. Creating websites is so much easier these days than it was 8 years ago.

www.open-salt.com

 

[HydroNito305]

Basically it's fermented barley. That's what all the zymes are. Pondzymes are more concentrated versions that cost less. Allow me to dig up a link to verify this though (the barley part) as it's off the top of my head.

First link I found linked to another forum but yeah.. seems to confirm.

1L of pondzyme is used for 150,000 gallons of water... so you know.. yeah.

So can i just simply dilute sum pondzyme and it would be safe to use on the plants? And by how much would i have to dilute it?

 

[OGEvilgenius]

So can i just simply dilute sum pondzyme and it would be safe to use on the plants? And by how much would i have to dilute it?

You can do a test where you dilute comparatively - use something organic like a slice of apple and dilute equal amounts of each solution you are testing and see how quickly they break down comparatively. Should give you a ball park. You don't need a lot.

 

[budman111]

What's it supposed to do for you?

Give the plant the S.A.R effect.

 

[klx]

Cultured Solutions UC Roots
This is a 0.028% solution of hypchlorous acid. Most likely created via a solution of sodium hypochlorite. There's been a fair amount of documentation in the hydroponics world about the uses and benefits of sodium hypochlorite. Look for them somewhere else.

To make your own 0.028% hypochlorous acid solution from a 12.5% sodium hypchlorite solution by weight (15% by volume), add 7mL per gallon.

12.5% sodium hypochlorite: 7mL/gal (1.86mL/L)

Just to confirm I am understanding the method here, for example I could add 12.5g sodium hypochlorite to 100mL RO water to get the solution, then add 18.6mL of this solution to 10L of RO water.

End result, is a 10L jug of UC Roots?

 

[MisterBlah]

Just to confirm I am understanding the method here, for example I could add 12.5g sodium hypochlorite to 100mL RO water to get the solution, then add 18.6mL of this solution to 10L of RO water.

End result, is a 10L jug of UC Roots?

I usually find it easier to by a 12.5% solution. Mostly because a 12.5% solution is easy as shit to find. And it's pure.

And something to remember: 12.5g/112.5g =/= 12.5%

If you want to use 12.5g to make a 12.5% by weight solution, you need to add 87.5g of water, 87.5mL.

Also, you'll want to make sure you're using a graduated cylinder or a burette for measuring out the liquids in this case.

 

[klx]

Thanks!

 

[Redoctober]

Amazing thread MisterBlah. Thank you for all of your time, effort and research! It is because of threads like this that I have started formulating my own nutrients with raw salts.
I am new at this but have done my research and I have one question:

I seem to be getting cloudiness when adding the calcium nitrate to the rez.

I add all my sulfates and phosphates in a stock solution first, then add stock solution of Agsil (potassium silicate), then the Calcium Nitrate last.
I have a 15 gal rez, and add each stock solution to its own 5 gal bucket of RO water separately before pouring into the main rez, so concentrations are very low ~300-400ppm
Is the cloudiness and possible precipitate (gypsum) due to the fact that I didn't lower the pH from 7.5 to 5.8 before adding in the Calcium?
I read that pH must be low for Calcium Nitrate to be soluble and not react with MAP and magnesium sulfate?
I think this is flocculation no?
Maybe I should have added the Agsil last?

I found this salt compatibility chart: http://www.growcom.com.au/_uploads/LWR/Fertigation Compatability and Solubility.pdf
Also some helpful tips: http://www.greenhousegrower.com/uncategorized/understanding-plant-nutrition-fertilizers-and-macronutrients/

I'm just not quite sure where I've taken a wrong turn?

 

[MisterBlah]

Amazing thread MisterBlah. Thank you for all of your time, effort and research! It is because of threads like this that I have started formulating my own nutrients with raw salts.
I am new at this but have done my research and I have one question:

I seem to be getting cloudiness when adding the calcium nitrate to the rez.

I add all my sulfates and phosphates in a stock solution first, then add stock solution of Agsil (potassium silicate), then the Calcium Nitrate last.
I have a 15 gal rez, and add each stock solution to its own 5 gal bucket of RO water separately before pouring into the main rez, so concentrations are very low ~300-400ppm
Is the cloudiness and possible precipitate (gypsum) due to the fact that I didn't lower the pH from 7.5 to 5.8 before adding in the Calcium?
I read that pH must be low for Calcium Nitrate to be soluble and not react with MAP and magnesium sulfate?
I think this is flocculation no?
Maybe I should have added the Agsil last?

I found this salt compatibility chart: http://www.growcom.com.au/_uploads/LWR/Fertigation Compatability and Solubility.pdf
Also some helpful tips: http://www.greenhousegrower.com/uncategorized/understanding-plant-nutrition-fertilizers-and-macronutrients/

I'm just not quite sure where I've taken a wrong turn?

It sounds like you're definitely getting calcium precipitates, but it's not due to flocculation. Ex: Flocculation is what happens when you try to add cocoa powder directly to water, it clumps on top or bottom of the solution.

What are the volumes of your stock solutions? 1L? 5L? How accurate are your measurements for the liquids in these? Are you using a graduated cylinder?
What is the pH of the calcium nitrate stock solution?
What is the concentration you are using for the stock solutions?
Are you measuring the eC/TDS of the 15 gallon reservoir or estimating it?

Typically the calcium nitrate stock solution will be slightly acidic. Try adding nitric acid to get the pH down around 5.5-6.

But I would definitely try lowering the pH of the reservoir before adding the calcium nitrate solution.

 

[vostok]

So, I've been lurking here for a while. I've used lots of different types of nutrients. And this thread is NOT a discussion of what nutrients are the best or what to use when or anything of the sort. I'll be honest, I mix my own blends according to very specific values and base all additions based on current water quality, not because I am following some calculator./l

About time some one did a test on this ....junk

I've been calling it bottled sewage for years

but prefer my own organic teas

good on you and long may you last

 

[Dr. Who]

Amazing thread MisterBlah. Thank you for all of your time, effort and research! It is because of threads like this that I have started formulating my own nutrients with raw salts.
I am new at this but have done my research and I have one question:

I seem to be getting cloudiness when adding the calcium nitrate to the rez.

I add all my sulfates and phosphates in a stock solution first, then add stock solution of Agsil (potassium silicate), then the Calcium Nitrate last.
I have a 15 gal rez, and add each stock solution to its own 5 gal bucket of RO water separately before pouring into the main rez, so concentrations are very low ~300-400ppm
Is the cloudiness and possible precipitate (gypsum) due to the fact that I didn't lower the pH from 7.5 to 5.8 before adding in the Calcium?
I read that pH must be low for Calcium Nitrate to be soluble and not react with MAP and magnesium sulfate?
I think this is flocculation no?
Maybe I should have added the Agsil last?

I found this salt compatibility chart: http://www.growcom.com.au/_uploads/LWR/Fertigation Compatability and Solubility.pdf
Also some helpful tips: http://www.greenhousegrower.com/uncategorized/understanding-plant-nutrition-fertilizers-and-macronutrients/

I'm just not quite sure where I've taken a wrong turn?

It sounds like you're definitely getting calcium precipitates, but it's not due to flocculation. Ex: Flocculation is what happens when you try to add cocoa powder directly to water, it clumps on top or bottom of the solution.

What are the volumes of your stock solutions? 1L? 5L? How accurate are your measurements for the liquids in these? Are you using a graduated cylinder?
What is the pH of the calcium nitrate stock solution?
What is the concentration you are using for the stock solutions?
Are you measuring the eC/TDS of the 15 gallon reservoir or estimating it?

Typically the calcium nitrate stock solution will be slightly acidic. Try adding nitric acid to get the pH down around 5.5-6.

But I would definitely try lowering the pH of the reservoir before adding the calcium nitrate solution.

How about the point that adding or combining Ca and Si = doesn't work as you get that precipitate problem!

Si is only available in formulations that do not contain Ca as in the micro nutrient bottle of the formulations. Even then, it is in very small amounts, supplying basic needs only! So you get no mixing problems when the formulations actually hit the res.

Why do you think Si supplements are stand alone? Same for their use. You always add the Si first and it's actually best to use it on water days and not feed days for the same reason as above. (In soils)

The same should be true for Res formulations and nutrient building in them. Add the Si and half the water. Ad the nutrient formulations and the next half of the water. NOW add any high Ca formulation last and mix by stirring and your in res air stones do the rest..

If you still get the precipitate - your formulation is off on Ca or Si somewhere. Review and adjust. Be sure the components are the best quality and not some Chinese shit cut or substituted with cheaper ingr.! The RAW brand of stand alone nutrients are specifically packaged for plant nutrition....if of course they are on your consideration list.

Great thread though !

 

[churchhaze]

Amazing thread MisterBlah. Thank you for all of your time, effort and research! It is because of threads like this that I have started formulating my own nutrients with raw salts.
I am new at this but have done my research and I have one question:

I seem to be getting cloudiness when adding the calcium nitrate to the rez.

I add all my sulfates and phosphates in a stock solution first, then add stock solution of Agsil (potassium silicate), then the Calcium Nitrate last.
I have a 15 gal rez, and add each stock solution to its own 5 gal bucket of RO water separately before pouring into the main rez, so concentrations are very low ~300-400ppm
Is the cloudiness and possible precipitate (gypsum) due to the fact that I didn't lower the pH from 7.5 to 5.8 before adding in the Calcium?
I read that pH must be low for Calcium Nitrate to be soluble and not react with MAP and magnesium sulfate?
I think this is flocculation no?
Maybe I should have added the Agsil last?

I found this salt compatibility chart: http://www.growcom.com.au/_uploads/LWR/Fertigation Compatability and Solubility.pdf
Also some helpful tips: http://www.greenhousegrower.com/uncategorized/understanding-plant-nutrition-fertilizers-and-macronutrients/

I'm just not quite sure where I've taken a wrong turn?

Do you have water high in carbonate? Add a nitric acid based pH down, and make sure you're not feeding too much phosphate or sulfate. Too much of either will make the reservoir more prone to precipitation.

50ppm P and 50ppm S are about as high as I'd go for P and S. (not P2O5, but P)

 

[MisterBlah]

If you still get the precipitate - your formulation is off on Ca or Si somewhere. Review and adjust. Be sure the components are the best quality and not some Chinese shit cut or substituted with cheaper ingr.! The RAW brand of stand alone nutrients are specifically packaged for plant nutrition....if of course they are on your consideration list.

Great thread though !

I never realized how expensive the RAW brand is. That's ridiculous. $22 for 8oz? I can buy 50lbs for that much.

 

[az2000]

I never realized how expensive the RAW brand is. That's ridiculous. $22 for 8oz? I can buy 50lbs for that much.

Have you given more thought to selling manageable quantities?

I think anything "for dummies" is what will make this take off (mixing how-to instructions; links to where to buy the stuff; sell small quantities if no reputable source is available.). If you sold stuff, it might be better to point to an eBay home page. If open-salt were too vendor'ish, RIU might consider it too "advertising" and require payment to promulgate the site. There's probably a fine line there.

This kind of accessibility of info should have been done a long time ago. I think it will be big, especially if it's dumbed down for the average person.

What about branded swag? Shirts, hats?

 

[MisterBlah]

Have you given more thought to selling manageable quantities?

I think anything "for dummies" is what will make this take off (mixing how-to instructions; links to where to buy the stuff; sell small quantities if no reputable source is available.). If you sold stuff, it might be better to point to an eBay home page. If open-salt were to vendor'ish, RIU might consider it too "advertising" and require payment to promulgate the site. There's probably a fine line there.

This kind of accessibility of info should have been done a long time ago. I think it will be big, especially if it's dumbed down for the average person.

What about branded swag? Shirts, hats?

I have given thought to all of that. Once it becomes something beyond an information source, that is, an online store, I will pay for advertising. I'm working on all of it right now. More blends. Better organized website. Everything.

 

[Dr. Who]

I never realized how expensive the RAW brand is. That's ridiculous. $22 for 8oz? I can buy 50lbs for that much.

Direct and in bulk is better then wholesale......but yeah......Way costly.

 

[Redoctober]

It sounds like you're definitely getting calcium precipitates, but it's not due to flocculation. Ex: Flocculation is what happens when you try to add cocoa powder directly to water, it clumps on top or bottom of the solution.

What are the volumes of your stock solutions? 1L? 5L? How accurate are your measurements for the liquids in these? Are you using a graduated cylinder?
What is the pH of the calcium nitrate stock solution?
What is the concentration you are using for the stock solutions?
Are you measuring the eC/TDS of the 15 gallon reservoir or estimating it?

Typically the calcium nitrate stock solution will be slightly acidic. Try adding nitric acid to get the pH down around 5.5-6.

But I would definitely try lowering the pH of the reservoir before adding the calcium nitrate solution.

I have been making 500-800mL stock solutions at 200x concentration which works out to 5mL of stock per liter of rez or 19mL per gallon.
I'm using Hydrobuddy to do all of my calculations.
My measurements are fairly accurate I'd say +-10mL for liquids and +-.01g for the salts.
I'm using pyrex measuring cups which I know aren't as accurate as a graduated cylinder but it's what I have at the moment
The pH of the calcium nitrate stock (Part B) is 5.5
The pH of the other stock (part A) is 3.33
The pH of the Agsil stock is 12.2
I am measuring the TDS of the rez with a HM digital meter

Maybe I should have excluded the Magnesium Sulfate from the stock A solution as I do see some precipitate in there as well,
I'm assuming that if properly mixed, one should never see precipitates?
It almost makes me want to make a separate stock for each salt but that's a lot of jars!

 

[Redoctober]

How about the point that adding or combining Ca and Si = doesn't work as you get that precipitate problem!

Si is only available in formulations that do not contain Ca as in the micro nutrient bottle of the formulations. Even then, it is in very small amounts, supplying basic needs only! So you get no mixing problems when the formulations actually hit the res.

Why do you think Si supplements are stand alone? Same for their use. You always add the Si first and it's actually best to use it on water days and not feed days for the same reason as above. (In soils)

The same should be true for Res formulations and nutrient building in them. Add the Si and half the water. Ad the nutrient formulations and the next half of the water. NOW add any high Ca formulation last and mix by stirring and your in res air stones do the rest..

If you still get the precipitate - your formulation is off on Ca or Si somewhere. Review and adjust. Be sure the components are the best quality and not some Chinese shit cut or substituted with cheaper ingr.! The RAW brand of stand alone nutrients are specifically packaged for plant nutrition....if of course they are on your consideration list.

Great thread though !

This time I will add the Si (Agsil) first with half the water like you said, and adjust down to 6.3 or so
Then add Stock A and adjust down again if needed. Stock A is fairly acidic (pH=3.3 so it should drop the rez pH even further down)
Then add the Calcium Nitrate stock last and see if there is any precipitate

I think I made a mistake including the magnesium sulfate in stock A because according to the chart I posted, magnesium sulfate is incompatible with MAP and MKP
I will do an extra stock part C now just for MgSO4

I agree that the RAW line is rather expensive. I ordered some of their salts and stuff after watching Harley Smith's videos (which are great by the way), but then discovered I could get the same salts for pennies on the dollar from custumhydronutrients. Hopefully they are not using Chinese crap, I suspect not as Yara, Nova, Peak etc. are all well known salt suppliers to the ag industry.

 

[Dr. Who]

This time I will add the Si (Agsil) first with half the water like you said, and adjust down to 6.3 or so
Then add Stock A and adjust down again if needed. Stock A is fairly acidic (pH=3.3 so it should drop the rez pH even further down)
Then add the Calcium Nitrate stock last and see if there is any precipitate

I think I made a mistake including the magnesium sulfate in stock A because according to the chart I posted, magnesium sulfate is incompatible with MAP and MKP
I will do an extra stock part C now just for MgSO4

I agree that the RAW line is rather expensive. I ordered some of their salts and stuff after watching Harley Smith's videos (which are great by the way), but then discovered I could get the same salts for pennies on the dollar from custumhydronutrients. Hopefully they are not using Chinese crap, I suspect not as Yara, Nova, Peak etc. are all well known salt suppliers to the ag industry.

Just a note that I left kinda un said.....Mix those nutrients IN the second half of ther water and then add the mix to the first half - diluted adds a safety buffer too! Last is still the additional Ca amounts and stir while adding.

 

[churchhaze]

I think I made a mistake including the magnesium sulfate in stock A because according to the chart I posted, magnesium sulfate is incompatible with MAP and MKP
I will do an extra stock part C now just for MgSO4

I've never had a problem mixing magnesium sulfate and MKP, and I use 400x concentrated a+b solutions. I doubt that's what's turning things cloudy, because my stock solution with MKP has always been crystal clear.