Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
Mohican said:
I know Fulvic is a once a year application.
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Ya know, I actually have never used fulvic acid. Makes me wonder if I'm missing out on something by not. Humic acid is an every watering "amendment" from what the directions on the package say. From what I understand of it is that it's essentially what defines a good soil in a lot of ways. Serious composters pay top dollars for testing on humic acids levels. I would imagine that notill planters that are successful after multiple cycles/years with minimal inputs are almost exclusively because of the humic contents from the continual decay of the organic matters in said planter. That and soil microbiology.
 
calliandra

calliandra

Well-Known Member
Midwest Weedist said:
Ya know, I actually have never used fulvic acid. Makes me wonder if I'm missing out on something by not. Humic acid is an every watering "amendment" from what the directions on the package say. From what I understand of it is that it's essentially what defines a good soil in a lot of ways. Serious composters pay top dollars for testing on humic acids levels. I would imagine that notill planters that are successful after multiple cycles/years with minimal inputs are almost exclusively because of the humic contents from the continual decay of the organic matters in said planter. That and soil microbiology.
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Well the way I understand it, it's the microorganisms that are producing those humic & fulvic acids - so actually, if our soil biology is well-balanced, we don't need to be adding any extra of either ;)
 
Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwjO68fAjPDLAhWpxIMKHbFdB00QFgg6MAM&url=http://www.humates.com/pdf/ORGANICMATTERPettit.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHqnGcaEFOrksXWmHz38T8hEX1GmQ&sig2=n3SOMxEbgYD4bqPyKuSYgA

Nice article. I was wanting to find an article showing that Humic Acids persist in the overall humus. Large molecular weight keeps them in the soil. Pretty sure Humic Acids are not depleted much. They are transient carriers of Cations, like a warehouse that keeps the Cation inventory until needed. Doesn't appear that Humic Acids get depleted much

Fulvic Acids, however are generally smaller and more water soluble and can be taken up by plant roots with minerals attached. These seem like they could clearly be depleted and need replenishment, which of course comes from top dressing and the breakdown of dead root material, etc

I'm busy right now bit I'd like to look into this mechanism further.
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
calliandra said:
Well the way I understand it, it's the microorganisms that are producing those humic & fulvic acids - so actually, if our soil biology is well-balanced, we don't need to be adding any extra of either ;)
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Of course not, but a 5 gallon and 10 gallon planter aren't going to have enough microorganisms to support almost 6 months of growing. Especially without any sort of compost tea or what have you.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
just add more ewc. No need to add acids. Waste of money imo.

My 18 gal sip gorilla glue is starting to fade, Its a ginormous plant and only half way done. I just top dressed it with more of my ewc last night. It's been in that sip for 4 weeks of flower and 3 weeks of veg
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
just add more ewc. No need to add acids. Waste of money imo.

My 18 gal sip gorilla glue is starting to fade, Its a ginormous plant and only half way done. I just top dressed it with more of my ewc last night. It's been in that sip for 4 weeks of flower and 3 weeks of veg
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I paid like $5 for what's lasted me about a year. Pretty cheap imo. That and there's no room in the planters for ewc. Love me some good ewc/vermicompost though!

Think you'll be switching to mostly sips now? I'm still on the fence on investing in them
 
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hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Midwest Weedist said:
I paid like $5 for what's lasted me about a year. Pretty cheap imo. That and there's no room in the planters for ewc. Love me some good ewc/vermicompost though!

Think you'll be switching to mostly sips now? I'm still on the fence on investing in them
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I've had bad experiences with some humic acids before. Being too acidic and ph issues.

Already converted for the most part. My breeding plants are in 10 gals though. My seedlings in veg are in 1 gals. Everything else in veg and flower are in sips. The results blow away everything else. It's less work. No tea's, just amending and top dressing. I add water to the resi 1 - 2 times weekly. Being that I'm a hash head the benefit of better / more trichome production.. Something about bottom watering plants improves trichome production so much. I first saw that when I was at inda gro checking out the aquaponics gardens. Seeing the same cuts that I have that were producing far more frost than mine. They use the hydro buckets. But with fish water. So the bottom feed. Like sips. Then I saw it with my own sips. Then a light bulb went on in my head... I don't know what sort of capillary action or what ever causes more trichome development but it does.
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
I've had bad experiences with some humic acids before. Being too acidic and ph issues.

Already converted for the most part. My breeding plants are in 10 gals though. My seedlings in veg are in 1 gals. Everything else in veg and flower are in sips. The results blow away everything else. It's less work. No tea's, just amending and top dressing. I add water to the resi 1 - 2 times weekly. Being that I'm a hash head the benefit of better / more trichome production.. Something about bottom watering plants improves trichome production so much. I first saw that when I was at inda gro checking out the aquaponics gardens. Seeing the same cuts that I have that were producing far more frost than mine. They use the hydro buckets. But with fish water. So the bottom feed. Like sips. Then I saw it with my own sips. Then a light bulb went on in my head... I don't know what sort of capillary action or what ever causes more trichome development but it does.
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I've heard that from a few people, never experienced it myself. I'll be ditching it as soon as it's gone. I'd like to eventually move to big shared beds/planters fed knf inputs, mainly the imos. Something about fementing stuff makes plants go ape shit.
I'd imagine that subirrigation is similar to how plants drink from the water tables outdoors. I watch plants go weeks without water here in the midwest without sweating it. So I definitely can see the benefit of sip's. I can also attest to fish shit water being top notch. When the weather isn't freezing I source all my water from a koi pond and my plants (garden, house plants, canna, everything) seem to prefer it more than spring water, ro, distilled, etc. Its nothing but cached rain water.
 
calliandra

calliandra

Well-Known Member
Midwest Weedist said:
Of course not, but a 5 gallon and 10 gallon planter aren't going to have enough microorganisms to support almost 6 months of growing. Especially without any sort of compost tea or what have you.
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Why shouldn't there be enough microorganisms? microorganisms make nutes according to the plant's specifications, they don't get used up? :)
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
calliandra said:
Why shouldn't there be enough microorganisms? microorganisms make nutes according to the plant's specifications, they don't get used up? :)
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Because there isn't enough soil mass to support the amount of microorganisms necessary to support the sheer size of these plants. 5 gallons and 10 gallons ime aren't quite enoug to sustain over 3 months of veg and 2 months of bloom
 
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4ftRoots

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
just add more ewc. No need to add acids. Waste of money imo.

My 18 gal sip gorilla glue is starting to fade, Its a ginormous plant and only half way done. I just top dressed it with more of my ewc last night. It's been in that sip for 4 weeks of flower and 3 weeks of veg
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I get huge plants and I am wanting to change over to SIPS. My only concern is the fact that the plants might become root bound. Have you ever experienced root bound plants? I ask because you said your gorilla glue is huge.

I have plants that get 3 feet tall and 3 feet around if that helps.

Thanks!
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
4ftRoots said:
I get huge plants and I am wanting to change over to SIPS. My only concern is the fact that the plants might become root bound. Have you ever experienced root bound plants? I ask because you said your gorilla glue is huge.

I have plants that get 3 feet tall and 3 feet around if that helps.

Thanks!
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Its my first run with sip's and it's 6 weeks in. But I have air stones in the resi's. The roots girl into the resi's before they even go in flower. So it's like a dwc down there. So o dont see them gwtting root bound. They grow very fast in veg in sips and stretch alot in flower with somewhat close nodes though. My 18 gal sips hold 5 gal of water. My 5 gal sips hold 1 1/2 gal of water.
 
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4ftRoots

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
Its my first run with sip's and it's 6 weeks in. But I have air stones in the resi's. The roots girl into the resi's before they even go in flower. So it's like a dwc down there. My 18 gal sips hold 5 gal of water. My 5 gal sips hold 1 1/2 gal of water.
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I guess I'll make one and see for myself. You haven't noticed any ill effects so far so it must be golden!
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
4ftRoots said:
I guess I'll make one and see for myself. You haven't noticed any ill effects so far so it must be golden!
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I'd maybe amend the soil more. They're big hungry plants.

I think my 18 gals might have been over kill. I went with that since it's living soil. But the 5 gals are kicking ass in veg. They're going into flower in a few days. I went with 5 gals because I have so many strains. I didn't have enough room for all 18 gals.
 
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4ftRoots

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
I'd maybe amend the soil more. They're big hungry plants.

I think my 18 gals might have been over kill. I went with that since it's living soil. But the 5 gals are kicking ass in veg. They're going into flower in a few days. I went with 5 gals because I have so many strains. I didn't have enough room for all 18 gals.
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I had a 35 gallon smartpot because I wanted to go overkill. I might try one 18 gallon since I like having more then not enough.

edit:
How heavy are these pots? Can you lift them yourself?
 
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