Understanding Proof

[Cyrus420]

A lot of people I've met in my lifetime often will espouse a belief without giving me reason why they believe it. These conversations always revolve around to the concept of proof.

What is proof?

Understand that when you want to convince someone of your position you must be able to provide physical examples, repeatable experiments, or in the absence of such evidence provide a reasonable well thought out and logical conclusion as to the nature of your statement, this is proof.

Statements that begin with "I feel..." or "In my opinion..." are not proof and never will be.

If you have to look at your "proof" through a certain lens, i.e. the Christian perspective, then that is not proof and never will be.

A lot of people believing in something is also not proof and never will be.

In a world where misinformation is spread on a daily basis we must strive for truth. We must not accept truth without proof. To do otherwise is to demean yourself and waste the brain you were born with.

Don't be an idiot, think things through guys.

 

[OriginalRoast]

What about logical proofs? I'm certain that I can give you an argument that supports the existence of unicorns or gremlins or anything else that you desire. Also, you didn't actually define what a proof is. You gave a good example of how one should use proof or evidence, but no actual definition.
If your position is that you want people to utilize proof or evidence when making an argument, then perhaps you should set the example and provide some for why the statement "I feel..." is not proof or evidence.

 

[newnature]

A lot of people I've met in my lifetime often will espouse a belief without giving me reason why they believe it. These conversations always revolve around to the concept of proof.

What is proof?

Understand that when you want to convince someone of your position you must be able to provide physical examples, repeatable experiments, or in the absence of such evidence provide a reasonable well thought out and logical conclusion as to the nature of your statement, this is proof.

Statements that begin with "I feel..." or "In my opinion..." are not proof and never will be.

If you have to look at your "proof" through a certain lens, i.e. the Christian perspective, then that is not proof and never will be.

A lot of people believing in something is also not proof and never will be.

In a world where misinformation is spread on a daily basis we must strive for truth. We must not accept truth without proof. To do otherwise is to demean yourself and waste the brain you were born with.

Don't be an idiot, think things through guys.

This is who Jesus Christ himself is. Let’s start with the one thing that will define who God really is? What is eternal life? John 5:26b…For as the Father HAS LIFE IN HIMSELF; so has he given to the son TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF. The life Jesus referred to is eternal or everlasting life. 


By his declaration and definition, he declared that he himself did not have eternal life at the time he was walking the earth or he was a complete liar! If you truly believe that the Bible is the Word of God, then you have to believe that Jesus Christ spoke the truth. If so, from his own mouth, he declared that only God had eternal life. Christ himself only had the promise of eternal life! 


Jesus did not have life in himself, so he could not be the source of that life; however, that being said, he was given the authority to give the promise to whomever he wished. He was not the source, but he was the only way to obtain the life from God himself. This is not semantics, the scriptures make it quite plain to anyone who reads it.

 

[Cyrus420]

What about logical proofs? I'm certain that I can give you an argument that supports the existence of unicorns or gremlins or anything else that you desire. Also, you didn't actually define what a proof is. You gave a good example of how one should use proof or evidence, but no actual definition.
If your position is that you want people to utilize proof or evidence when making an argument, then perhaps you should set the example and provide some for why the statement "I feel..." is not proof or evidence.

I left room in my OP to include logical proofs, I don't need to specifically list every kind of proof for you.

Yes, you CAN give me a good argument for any number of things but that doesn't make it a proof.

Example: Pixies live in my shoes. Only I can see the pixies when my left shoe is off and no one else is around. Do you see the pixies when you're around? No? Then it holds up to the logic of the statement and therefore pixies must be real!

No. And any argument you give me for a creature that doesn't exist is going to display the same characteristics. You can make an argument but it will never be true. You need to proof these things exist, not just convince me of them.

As for why is a statement "I feel..." not evidence it is self apparent. If I need to explain to you why feelings or personal thought is not evidence then you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Cyrus420]

This is who Jesus Christ himself is. Let’s start with the one thing that will define who God really is? What is eternal life? John 5:26b…For as the Father HAS LIFE IN HIMSELF; so has he given to the son TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF. The life Jesus referred to is eternal or everlasting life. 


By his declaration and definition, he declared that he himself did not have eternal life at the time he was walking the earth or he was a complete liar! If you truly believe that the Bible is the Word of God, then you have to believe that Jesus Christ spoke the truth. If so, from his own mouth, he declared that only God had eternal life. Christ himself only had the promise of eternal life! 


Jesus did not have life in himself, so he could not be the source of that life; however, that being said, he was given the authority to give the promise to whomever he wished. He was not the source, but he was the only way to obtain the life from God himself. This is not semantics, the scriptures make it quite plain to anyone who reads it.

Scripture isn't proof.

What about the hundreds of other holy books out there with their messiahs or their world creators?

How do you know your bible is true? Because it says so?

 

[mean.green]

This is who Jesus Christ himself is. Let’s start with the one thing that will define who God really is? What is eternal life? John 5:26b…For as the Father HAS LIFE IN HIMSELF; so has he given to the son TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF. The life Jesus referred to is eternal or everlasting life. 


By his declaration and definition, he declared that he himself did not have eternal life at the time he was walking the earth or he was a complete liar! If you truly believe that the Bible is the Word of God, then you have to believe that Jesus Christ spoke the truth. If so, from his own mouth, he declared that only God had eternal life. Christ himself only had the promise of eternal life! 


Jesus did not have life in himself, so he could not be the source of that life; however, that being said, he was given the authority to give the promise to whomever he wished. He was not the source, but he was the only way to obtain the life from God himself. This is not semantics, the scriptures make it quite plain to anyone who reads it.

That makes me think that jesus is the bouncer and you only get in his club (heaven) if he allows it.. lol

 

[Corso312]

A lot of people I've met in my lifetime often will espouse a belief without giving me reason why they believe it. These conversations always revolve around to the concept of proof.

What is proof?

Understand that when you want to convince someone of your position you must be able to provide physical examples, repeatable experiments, or in the absence of such evidence provide a reasonable well thought out and logical conclusion as to the nature of your statement, this is proof.

Statements that begin with "I feel..." or "In my opinion..." are not proof and never will be.

If you have to look at your "proof" through a certain lens, i.e. the Christian perspective, then that is not proof and never will be.

A lot of people believing in something is also not proof and never will be.

In a world where misinformation is spread on a daily basis we must strive for truth. We must not accept truth without proof. To do otherwise is to demean yourself and waste the brain you were born with.

Don't be an idiot, think things through guys.

Some thing you just know, like when I first started growing 12 years ago I bought a book from Ed Rosenthal and as soon as I read about needing to cut clones in water and air bubbles being in the stem ..I knew it was horseshit and even as a total rookie I dismissed it immediately... Why? Common sense..

I also knew September 12th that Saudi Arabia was behind 911 twin towers attack, had no proof, just knew it..eventually you will know this too when the state department releases all the facts in 12 years when we are no longer on good terms with those scumbags.

 

[VegasWinner]

A lot of people I've met in my lifetime often will espouse a belief without giving me reason why they believe it. These conversations always revolve around to the concept of proof.

What is proof?

Understand that when you want to convince someone of your position you must be able to provide physical examples, repeatable experiments, or in the absence of such evidence provide a reasonable well thought out and logical conclusion as to the nature of your statement, this is proof.

Statements that begin with "I feel..." or "In my opinion..." are not proof and never will be.

If you have to look at your "proof" through a certain lens, i.e. the Christian perspective, then that is not proof and never will be.

A lot of people believing in something is also not proof and never will be.

In a world where misinformation is spread on a daily basis we must strive for truth. We must not accept truth without proof. To do otherwise is to demean yourself and waste the brain you were born with.

Don't be an idiot, think things through guys.

The Buddhist teacher I follow; Nichiren Daishonin, says "There are Three Proofs; Documentary, Theoretical, and Actual Proof; actual proof being the most important of all."

My mentor, Daisaku Ikeda, teaches that actual proof is shown by" living a healthy and fulfilling life," irregardless of your current circumstances. peace
namaste

 

[newnature]

That makes me think that jesus is the bouncer and you only get in his club (heaven) if he allows it.. lol

Yahweh stations the cherubim and the fiery ever-turning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life, once Adam and Eve were banished from the garden. The tree of life is now inaccessible; no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile. So it might be then that Yahweh really spoke the truth after all, the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad did bring death to the human race.

 

[newnature]

Scripture isn't proof.

What about the hundreds of other holy books out there with their messiahs or their world creators?

How do you know your bible is true? Because it says so?

Yahweh was not identified with nature, Yahweh transcended nature; and Yahweh wasn’t known through nature or natural phenomena. Yahweh was known through history, events and a particular relationship with a man, which Yahweh formed from the dust of the earth. History is proof. Exodus 3:13-14 - Moses said to God, “When I come to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh.” He continued, “Thus shall you say to the Israelites, ‘Ehyeh sent me to you.’ ”


Not having been raised among his own people, Moses is ignorant of their God’s name and fears he will lack credibility with the Israelites. God’s proper name, disclosed in the verse 15, is YHVH (spelled “yod-heh-vav-heh” in Hebrew; in ancient times the “vav” was pronounced “w”). But here God first tells Moses its meaning: “I Will Be What I Will Be,” meaning “My nature will become evident from my actions.” 


Then God answers Moses’ question about what to say to the people: “Tell them: ‘Ehyeh’ (“I Will Be,” a shorter form of the explanation) sent me.” This explanation derives God’s name from the verb “h-v-h,” a variant form of “h-y-h,” “to be.” Because God is the speaker, he uses the first person form of the verb.

 

[justugh]

A lot of people I've met in my lifetime often will espouse a belief without giving me reason why they believe it. These conversations always revolve around to the concept of proof.

What is proof?

Understand that when you want to convince someone of your position you must be able to provide physical examples, repeatable experiments, or in the absence of such evidence provide a reasonable well thought out and logical conclusion as to the nature of your statement, this is proof.

Statements that begin with "I feel..." or "In my opinion..." are not proof and never will be.

If you have to look at your "proof" through a certain lens, i.e. the Christian perspective, then that is not proof and never will be.

A lot of people believing in something is also not proof and never will be.

In a world where misinformation is spread on a daily basis we must strive for truth. We must not accept truth without proof. To do otherwise is to demean yourself and waste the brain you were born with.

Don't be an idiot, think things through guys.

proof ....... mathematical proof
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel's_ontological_proof

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/computer-scientists-prove-god-exists/story?id=20678984
the over all story is more about how tech allows things to go much faster .........but it is your proof a major news org put it out it can be repeated by u at home thanks to computers but u have your proof

there is a underling pattern to the universe .......now what u call it is up to u
personally i like the idea of Life over the idea of God

the idea that is life would taken in all the different religions ....i can make anything fit into that

the idea of it being god is little hard to swallow as some of the over all actions and results are just so fucked up someone with all see all knowing u would tend to think would of prevented fixed or never allowed to go on ........then u get into the whole debate on free will vs divine orders .......it really breaks down to god give ppl scape goats for their actions if they had to admit it was them it would take the power of the words and ppl would not fallow them


what do i win

 

[ttystikk]

Proof = percentage of ethanol by volume, x2.

I'm here all week.

 

[justugh]

Proof = percentage of ethanol by volume, x2.

I'm here all week.

i make mine 140 but i can out put at 160
what about u

 

[ttystikk]

i make mine 140 but i can out put at 160
what about u

I've never done a run of moonshine. It's on the bucket list.

 

[justugh]

I've never done a run of moonshine. It's on the bucket list.

well if u have a small thing going or a large u can use the brewing of the mash to add co2 into your area ........if u get the right kind of stil u can make your own ethanol (when u make stuff at 195% u can not call it moonshine anymore) .....but it will make one hell of a cheap solvant for striping the plants for oil and cleaning tools

yell if u want some help always down for a stil run

 

[ttystikk]

well if u have a small thing going or a large u can use the brewing of the mash to add co2 into your area ........if u get the right kind of stil u can make your own ethanol (when u make stuff at 195% u can not call it moonshine anymore) .....but it will make one hell of a cheap solvant for striping the plants for oil and cleaning tools

yell if u want some help always down for a stil run

Whether or not I need it for co2, I'd like to do this once or twice. Not sure if I'm looking for hard liquor, wine or beer yet.

 

[Cyrus420]

proof ....... mathematical proof
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel's_ontological_proof

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/computer-scientists-prove-god-exists/story?id=20678984
the over all story is more about how tech allows things to go much faster .........but it is your proof a major news org put it out it can be repeated by u at home thanks to computers but u have your proof

there is a underling pattern to the universe .......now what u call it is up to u
personally i like the idea of Life over the idea of God

the idea that is life would taken in all the different religions ....i can make anything fit into that

the idea of it being god is little hard to swallow as some of the over all actions and results are just so fucked up someone with all see all knowing u would tend to think would of prevented fixed or never allowed to go on ........then u get into the whole debate on free will vs divine orders .......it really breaks down to god give ppl scape goats for their actions if they had to admit it was them it would take the power of the words and ppl would not fallow them


what do i win

I'm not asking anyone to argue god with me. Just to understand what proof is and how it works in a common every day sense. Godel's model isn't proof it's an argument for God. One that doesn't hold up considering there are an infinite number of gods that can be conceived no mathematical model can account for them all. It's an idea so absurd that it requires an absurd proof, and math and computers can't do it.

Religion can't prove itself, they are extraordinary claims that require extraordinary evidence/proof. None of which any religion can provide.

Edit: Also you didn't read that second article, it even admits it has nothing to do with proving god.

 

[justugh]

I'm not asking anyone to argue god with me. Just to understand what proof is and how it works in a common every day sense. Godel's model isn't proof it's an argument for God. One that doesn't hold up considering there are an infinite number of gods that can be conceived no mathematical model can account for them all. It's an idea so absurd that it requires an absurd proof, and math and computers can't do it.

Religion can't prove itself, they are extraordinary claims that require extraordinary evidence/proof. None of which any religion can provide.

Edit: Also you didn't read that second article, it even admits it has nothing to do with proving god.

well in that spirit i say we do a test

we will find some ppl that we can half freeze stop their heart and bring them back 10 mins (longest is 20 mins i believe) ask them what is going on .......it is unethical so no one has done this under lab conditions (well dr mengele but the tech was primitive) we only use ppl on death row

once the process is safe can go ourselves and see come back

 

[ttystikk]

well in that spirit i say we do a test

we will find some ppl that we can half freeze stop their heart and bring them back 10 mins (longest is 20 mins i believe) ask them what is going on .......it is unethical so no one has done this under lab conditions (well dr mengele but the tech was primitive) we only use ppl on death row

once the process is safe can go ourselves and see come back

Lol @ 'safe dying'...

I'll find out soon enough, I'm in no hurry.

BTW, I'm against the death penalty.

 

[Cyrus420]

well in that spirit i say we do a test

we will find some ppl that we can half freeze stop their heart and bring them back 10 mins (longest is 20 mins i believe) ask them what is going on .......it is unethical so no one has done this under lab conditions (well dr mengele but the tech was primitive) we only use ppl on death row

once the process is safe can go ourselves and see come back

That makes zero sense. It proves nothing.

Plenty of people have died and come back. Some report bright lights or endless dark cold but we KNOW these are hallucinations brought on by the trauma of a near or total death experience.

Someone dying and coming back to say: "I saw god!" Doesn't prove anything. All it tells us is one person died and saw something subjective.

If you make half your freezing patients Muslim then they'll come back and say they saw Allah, a Buddhist wouldn't see anything, a Hindu would see a number of a gods...it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny or common sense.

If you're trolling though please tell me, I don't want to assume you think freezing people is a good idea.