Reverse Engineering everyone's nutrients

MisterBlah

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
:evil:

It seems I missed a few parts to the Canna Aqua Flores products, which means I may have it wrong for other Canna products as well. This is very much a problem based on fertilizer labeling laws. And I know what I'm going to start doing tomorrow now, and that's start to lobby my state reps to change the fertilizer labeling laws. This is really starting to bother me.

It took some intense searching, but I finally found the combined concentrations for Canna Aqua Flores A/B.
Aqua Flores A/B Combined:
Total N: 4.1%
N (NO3): 3.7%
N (NH4): 0.4%
P2O5: 4.2% (P 1.9%)
K2O: 11.1% (K 9.2%)
Ca: 1.7%
Mg: 1.2%
S: 2% (SO3 5.0%)
B: 0.01%
Cu: 0.002%
Fe(DTPA): 0.03%
Fe(EDDHA): 0.03%
Total Fe: 0.06%
Mn: 0.03%
Mo: 0.003%
Zn: 0.01%
Si: 0.07%

I've got more on Aqua Vega, Coco, and Tera Vega. You'll see a big update to the Canna blends this week.

Canna Boost is a hormone blend. And I'll have some more on that here soon as well. Either an equivalent or something that will effectively do the same job.
 
klx

klx

Well-Known Member
Ok thanks I appreciate it. I just wanna be able to replace the Aqua Vega and Aqua Flores that I use. It works great it's just pricey.
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Layman: "Engineers are stupid!! Ready to roll!!"

Engineer: "I think you're still missing something important..."

Layman: "Don't tell me what to do!! I know what I'm doing!!! Here we go!!"



Layman: Why doesn't this thing work? DIY nutes must be bullshit after all!
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
You all should do what I did when I started with DIY nutes and try growing without iron. At least then you can see what happens first hand rather than just looking at deficiency charts.. (the plant dies, quickly)
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Skydiver falls from sky after wanting to save money and packed his own chute. On way down he passes a guy flying up from the ground and yells "you know anything about parachutes?" The other guy yells "no, do you know anything about gas furnaces?" Just to lighten up this thread :).
 
budman111

budman111

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
Skydiver falls from sky after wanting to save money and packed his own chute. On way down he passes a guy flying up from the ground and yells "you know anything about parachutes?" The other guy yells "no, do you know anything about gas furnaces?" Just to lighten up this thread :).
Click to expand...
A few mid-life crisis's going on here dude!
 
MisterBlah

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
Skydiver falls from sky after wanting to save money and packed his own chute. On way down he passes a guy flying up from the ground and yells "you know anything about parachutes?" The other guy yells "no, do you know anything about gas furnaces?" Just to lighten up this thread :).
Click to expand...
The guy flying up is about to have the same problem as the guy falling down. :D
 
MisterBlah

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
I've also updated the website as well, but here is Aqua Flores and Vega.

Comparable to AQUA FLORES A/B Combined

Mix each at 3ml/l of water or 2.33 tbsp/gallon (2 tablespoons + 1 teaspoon per gallon)

Part A
Magnesium Nitrate: 112.90 g/l
Calcium Nitrate: 89.40 g/l
Fe-EDTA 13%: 4.61 g/l

Part B
Potassium Sulfate: 101.20 g/l
Potassium Nitrate: 82.10 g/l
Mono Potassium Phosphate: 54.80 g/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate: 24.10 g/l
Magnesium Sulfate: 12.70 g/l
Potassium Silicate: 2.84 g/l
Mn-EDTA 13%: 2.30 g/l
Zn-EDTA 13%: 0.77 g/l
SolUBor: 0.50 g/l
Cu-EDTA 14%: 0.14 g/l
Sodium Molybdate: 0.077 g/l

Comparable to AQUA VEGA A/B Combined

Mix each at 3ml/l of water or 2.33 tbsp/gallon (2 tablespoons + 1 teaspoon per gallon)

Part A
CAN-27 (Calcium Ammonium Nitrate)89.20 g/l
Calcium Nitrate: 86.40 g/l
Magnesium Nitrate: 85.60 g/l
Fe-EDTA 13%: 3.84 g/l

Potassium Nitrate: 108.30 g/l
Potassium Sulfate: 61.10 g/l
Mono Potassium Phosphate: 53.30 g/l
Potassium Silicate: 2.03 g/l
Mn-EDTA 13%: 1.54 g/l
Zn-EDTA 13%: 0.54 g/l
SolUBor: 0.35 g/l
Sodium Molybdate: 0.07 g/l
Cu-EDTA 14%: 0.05 g/l

What do you mean by “comparable”?
When I say comparable to, I mean the actual end result will be the same. Most of these products come with instructions to use part A and part B, together. That is, you should never used them individually. So, while what I list as a Part A and B might actually be slightly different, after you’ve mixed your final nutrient solution, it will come out identical.
 
MisterBlah

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
The final blend will deliver nutrients in the following concentrations:

Aqua Flores A/B Combined:
Total N: 123 ppm
N (NO3): 111 ppm
N (NH4): 12 ppm
P: 57 ppm
K: 276 ppm
Ca: 51 ppm
Mg: 36 ppm
S: 60 ppm
B: 0.3 ppm
Cu: 0.06 ppm
Fe: 1.8 ppm
Mn: 0.9 ppm
Mo: 0.09 ppm
Zn: 0.3 ppm
Si: 2.1 ppm

Aqua Vega A/B Combined:
Total N: 183 ppm
N (NO3): 144 ppm
N (NH4): 39 ppm
P: 36 ppm
K: 249 ppm
Ca: 60 ppm
Mg: 30 ppm
S: 33 ppm
B: 0.21 ppm
Cu: 0.03 ppm
Total Fe: 1.5 ppm
Mn: 0.6 ppm
Mo: 0.06 ppm
Zn: 0.21 ppm
Si: 1.5 ppm
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
MisterBlah said:
:evil:

It seems I missed a few parts to the Canna Aqua Flores products, which means I may have it wrong for other Canna products as well. This is very much a problem based on fertilizer labeling laws. And I know what I'm going to start doing tomorrow now, and that's start to lobby my state reps to change the fertilizer labeling laws. This is really starting to bother me.

It took some intense searching, but I finally found the combined concentrations for Canna Aqua Flores A/B.
Aqua Flores A/B Combined:
Total N: 4.1%
N (NO3): 3.7%
N (NH4): 0.4%
P2O5: 4.2% (P 1.9%)
K2O: 11.1% (K 9.2%)
Ca: 1.7%
Mg: 1.2%
S: 2% (SO3 5.0%)
B: 0.01%
Cu: 0.002%
Fe(DTPA): 0.03%
Fe(EDDHA): 0.03%
Total Fe: 0.06%
Mn: 0.03%
Mo: 0.003%
Zn: 0.01%
Si: 0.07%

I've got more on Aqua Vega, Coco, and Tera Vega. You'll see a big update to the Canna blends this week.

Canna Boost is a hormone blend. And I'll have some more on that here soon as well. Either an equivalent or something that will effectively do the same job.
Click to expand...
Just wanted to say thanks, you've renewed my interest in this! If I do expand and it makes sense to lower my nutrient costs as opposed to the very negligible costs accrued now you've been a big help, thanks again.
 
caumop

caumop

Well-Known Member
MisterBlah, are you still planning on doing some of the organic nutes too? I would love to see what is in the Necter for the Gods.
 
MisterBlah

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
Organic fertilizers are more difficult. In large part because there are can be multiple types of the same organic fertilizer.

There's a number of raw organic fertilizers that I have lab tests on, like kelp powder, a bat guano, and a few others. And once I get a few more, I may come up with something.

But the short of it is that unless someone else is going to pay for lab analysis these organic and semi organic fertilizer blends, it will be a long while until I get to them.
 
Redoctober

Redoctober

Well-Known Member
MisterBlah, I have been using JR Peters MOST(mix of soluble traces) for trace elements. It's very difficult to obtain any actual info on the traces themselves other than their percentages in the formula.

"A full package of micronutrients required for greenhouse & nursery production. Guaranteed analysis includes sulfur (15%), magnesium (1.43%), boron (1.4%), copper (2.34%), iron (9%), manganese (9%), molybdenum (0.0423%) and zinc (4.48%)."

Is this an acceptable source of trace elements in a decent ratio? Or is it preferable to get the trace minerals separately and in chelated form and just DIY? Not sure if the "MOST" elements are chelated or not, it doesn't say. I must admit I have a great deal of difficulty getting it to dissolve.
 
MisterBlah

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
Well, based on that analysis, they are all sulfates. So, copper sulfate, iron sulfate, manganese sulfate, etc. Boron is probably a SolUBor and molybdenum probably a sodium molybdate. You need very little of it, so solubility shouldn't be a problem. Probably no more than .5-.7g in 10 gallons.

And yes, it's an acceptable source. But chelated elements will do better in stock solutions, so if that's what you're making, then it's possible you'll have some trouble getting them to dissolve.
 
Redoctober

Redoctober

Well-Known Member
Ah, thanks for the input! .5g per 10 gal is exactly the amount I've been using so that is good! Yeah I'm making stock solutions and my veg stock B solution (Calcium Nitrate & MOST) calls for 20g of MOST per 800mL of water, which stubbornly just does not want to dissolve. It just sits at the bottom of the jar like blue sand. I'm going to try out the individual chelates to see if it makes a difference. Trace elements are probably the most expensive thing to buy but also the most infrequent because you use so little of them.
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
If you mix a borate salt with iron sulfate in a concentrated stock solution, you will end up with black precipitate. It turns orange and becomes soluble when the pH is below a certain level so adding nitric acid to the stock solution would fix the problem, but using a chelated form of iron would work a lot better.

Put the sodium borate (solubor) in the B stock with the monopotassium phosphate, magnesium sulfate, and manganese sulfate, and sodium molybdate.
 
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