USA move closer to equality in wages

What will increasing the minimum accompish?

  • Make a lot of workers very happy, and boost the economy

  • Cost jobs and drive businesses into bankruptcy

  • Nothing


Results are only viewable after voting.

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
I live in America. It is more of joke than anything. There is good movie "A Fish Called Wanda" where Kevin Klein walked out of an English families house (John Clease) telling them to thank an American because they could all be speaking German. I do offend, not to hurt, but to draw attention to the bounds of ridiculous up to the extreme, that way we can set perimeters to talk within. Russian or French? Never been, wasn't born there, history said we bailed them out, twice since Russia dropped out of the 1st world war to establish MARXIST communism and install Joseph Stalin (well, he was around the top before he took over as dictator). *Joking* if not for Americans, Ruskie and French would be spoken with a German accent.
As a huge history buff im afraid your only 1/2 right. Its a long and convoluted story. Your right that Americas help late (very Late, even Australia beat you into both by years- which is why we as a country are loved in France ) in the war turned the Trump..sorry Hitler tide. We do thank you for finally turning up though to help all those other countries you dont want to visit. Russia beating the allies into Berlin is always forgotten...funny that. Russia was not going to be defeated General Winter saw to that.. France giving you independence from Britain was forgotten as it needed you until you decided to join in the fight. How different the war may have been if you joined in straight away and came to defend Frances borders?
You Also did extremely well out of the deal. Capitalizing on the farming and manufacturing industries that you then sold to a broke world. You became a super power due to this. You did well indeed..only to off shore that that made you the country. A country were a fair wage was paid and people prospered.

Maybe spend some of your disposable income and visit other parts of the world. Its an amazing place and a great way to learn that people are just people. New ideas, food, drinks, drugs, new "things"..its amazing. The language they speak doesnt mean much if anything at all.


Now instead of history lessons (Dont mention the war!) can we move back to topic..Economics. The against team has so far failed to supply any economics to support their argument.
 
You are not increasing the economy with this. You are taking money from one pocket and putting it in the other and declaring it income. Taking from one person and giving to another does not create economic activity.
Piggybacking on yours
What will those purchases look like. Will they be investments, savings or junk commodities.
Let's look at inflation.
What is 'Inflation'
Inflation is the rate at which the general level of prices for goods and services is rising and, consequently, the purchasing power of currency is falling. Central banks attempt to limit inflation, and avoid deflation, in order to keep the economy running smoothly.

Now we look at that and consider this: With rising wages, the money has to come from somewhere. That mean raising the price of sales to offset the cost purchases or production. We are giving the lowest earners extra money, at the same time skilled labor will demand a raise so that they remain at a higher rate than entry level new hires (we raised the lowest income now all incomes must rise). This is to discriminate (used in a positive function) between skilled labor and unskilled labor, unless you are going to pay unskilled labor (busy work) the same as skilled labor (core business production or source of revenue). That will more than likely fail your business as skilled labor has been devalue to the point of Unskilled. Very insulting for someone that has put a lot of effort into improving their position.

Anyone else on par with Dumb-dumb McNewHire. I hope not.
 

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
You are not increasing the economy with this. You are taking money from one pocket and putting it in the other and declaring it income. Taking from one person and giving to another does not create economic activity.
Thats exactly how the economy drives itself....
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Thats exactly how the economy drives itself....
No it is not. An employer hires an employee and that employee uses his labor to create products or services worth more than the amount he is being compensated. At the end of the day the employee has compensation in the form of wages and the employer has created value.

Redistribution of wealth does not create value.

The left keeps thinking they can steal from the rich to make the poor rich and it never works the way they think it will.

Look at growth over the last 7 years.
 

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
Piggybacking on yours
What will those purchases look like. Will they be investments, savings or junk commodities.
Let's look at inflation.
What is 'Inflation'
Inflation is the rate at which the general level of prices for goods and services is rising and, consequently, the purchasing power of currency is falling. Central banks attempt to limit inflation, and avoid deflation, in order to keep the economy running smoothly.

Now we look at that and consider this: With rising wages, the money has to come from somewhere. That mean raising the price of sales to offset the cost purchases or production. We are giving the lowest earners extra money, at the same time skilled labor will demand a raise so that they remain at a higher rate than entry level new hires (we raised the lowest income now all incomes must rise). This is to discriminate (used in a positive function) between skilled labor and unskilled labor, unless you are going to pay unskilled labor (busy work) the same as skilled labor (core business production or source of revenue). That will more than likely fail your business as skilled labor has been devalue to the point of Unskilled. Very insulting for someone that has put a lot of effort into improving their position.

Anyone else on par with Dumb-dumb McNewHire. I hope not.
Which is why the cost of living rises with inflation and the min wage should do to. Are you now agreeing with the "for" side?
 

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
No it is not. An employer hires an employee and that employee uses his labor to create products or services worth more than the amount he is being compensated. At the end of the day the employee has compensation in the form of wages and the employer has created value.

Redistribution of wealth does not create value.

The left keeps thinking they can steal from the rich to make the poor rich and it never works the way they think it will.

Look at growth over the last 7 years.
Its not stealing..economy's are built on cash going around. Which is why when cash is not going around interest rates are lowered. To encourage cash to go around and drive the economy. If people are not spending, people are not earning so therefore their not.... spending..
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Its not stealing..economy's are built on cash going around. Which is why when cash is not going around interest rates are lowered. To encourage cash to go around and drive the economy. If people are not spending, people are not earning so therefore their not.... spending..
Encourage is another word for forcing. The FED has forced the interest rate level artificially low to force people to spend money rather than save money.

But my point is that you do not create value by redistributing wealth, you just force it to go round and round in the economy. There is no growth and thus when inflation causes prices to rise you end up with less in the economy. Now, an economy that was not fucked with would devalue and normalize. However, the government does not want normalization so it borrows money and injects the borrowed money into the economy. And that does not add value either because you are now on the hook for interest payments.

Downward spiral after that.

The only way the economy changes is with more jobs creating added value to the economy.
 

Michael Huntherz

Well-Known Member
I can't believe how many people have extremely strong opinions based solely on billionaire-class propaganda.

Stop protecting those who are victimizing you, masochistic dullards. Have you seen the decline of USA Middle-class in our lifetime? It is because of the Billionaire class, not the poor, that this has happened. Math doesn't lie, it doesnt' have an agenda, and it doesn't give a fuck what you believe. The facts are there's a dangerous level of wealth polarization in our country that has the potential to cause cataclysmic economic collapse. For fuck's sakes, fuck fuck fuck fuckity fuck.


Robert Reich said:
Even though French economist Thomas Piketty has made an air-tight case that we’re heading toward levels of inequality not seen since the days of the nineteenth-century robber barons, right-wing conservatives haven’t stopped lying about what’s happening and what to do about it.

Herewith, the four biggest right-wing lies about inequality, followed by the truth.

Lie number one: The rich and CEOs are America’s job creators. So we dare not tax them.

The truth is the middle class and poor are the job-creators through their purchases of goods and services. If they don’t have enough purchasing power because they’re not paid enough, companies won’t create more jobs and economy won’t grow.

We’ve endured the most anemic recovery on record because most Americans don’t have enough money to get the economy out of first gear. The economy is barely growing and real wages continue to drop.

We keep having false dawns. An average of 200,000 jobs were created in the United States over the last three months, but huge numbers of Americans continue to drop out of the labor force.

Lie number two: People are paid what they’re worth in the market. So we shouldn’t tamper with pay.

The facts contradict this. CEOs who got 30 times the pay of typical workers forty years ago now get 300 times their pay not because they’ve done such a great job but because they control their compensation committees and their stock options have ballooned.

Meanwhile, most American workers earn less today than they did forty years ago, adjusted for inflation, not because they’re working less hard now but because they don’t have strong unions bargaining for them.

More than a third of all workers in the private sector were unionized forty years ago; now, fewer than 7 percent belong to a union.

Lie number three: Anyone can make it in America with enough guts, gumption, and intelligence. So we don’t need to do anything for poor and lower-middle class kids.

The truth is we do less than nothing for poor and lower-middle class kids. Their schools don’t have enough teachers or staff, their textbooks are outdated, they lack science labs, their school buildings are falling apart.

We’re the only rich nation to spend less educating poor kids than we do educating kids from wealthy families.

All told, 42 percent of children born to poor families will still be in poverty as adults – a higher percent than in any other advanced nation.

Lie number four: Increasing the minimum wage will result in fewer jobs. So we shouldn’t raise it.

In fact, studies show that increases in the minimum wage put more money in the pockets of people who will spend it – resulting in more jobs, and counteracting any negative employment effects of an increase in the minimum.

Three of my colleagues here at the University of California at Berkeley – Arindrajit Dube, T. William Lester, and Michael Reich – have compared adjacent counties and communities across the United States, some with higher minimum wages than others but similar in every other way.

They found no loss of jobs in those with the higher minimums.

The truth is, America’s lurch toward widening inequality can be reversed. But doing so will require bold political steps.

At the least, the rich must pay higher taxes in order to pay for better-quality education for kids from poor and middle-class families. Labor unions must be strengthened, especially in lower-wage occupations, in order to give workers the bargaining power they need to get better pay. And the minimum wage must be raised.

Don’t listen to the right-wing lies about inequality. Know the truth, and act on it.
 
I can't believe how many people have extremely strong opinions based solely on billionaire-class propaganda.

Stop protecting those who are victimizing you, masochistic dullards. Have you seen the decline of USA Middle-class in our lifetime? It is because of the Billionaire class, not the poor, that this has happened. Math doesn't lie, it doesnt' have an agenda, and it doesn't give a fuck what you believe. The facts are there's a dangerous level of wealth polarization in our country that has the potential to cause cataclysmic economic collapse. For fuck's sakes, fuck fuck fuck fuckity fuck.


On that, has NYC turned into a storage locker for world-wide Billionaires? Real question here not poking.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I can't believe how many people have extremely strong opinions based solely on billionaire-class propaganda.

Stop protecting those who are victimizing you, masochistic dullards. Have you seen the decline of USA Middle-class in our lifetime? It is because of the Billionaire class, not the poor, that this has happened. Math doesn't lie, it doesnt' have an agenda, and it doesn't give a fuck what you believe. The facts are there's a dangerous level of wealth polarization in our country that has the potential to cause cataclysmic economic collapse. For fuck's sakes, fuck fuck fuck fuckity fuck.

Fuckin' right!
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
As a huge history buff im afraid your only 1/2 right. Its a long and convoluted story. Your right that Americas help late (very Late, even Australia beat you into both by years- which is why we as a country are loved in France ) in the war turned the Trump..sorry Hitler tide. We do thank you for finally turning up though to help all those other countries you dont want to visit. Russia beating the allies into Berlin is always forgotten...funny that. Russia was not going to be defeated General Winter saw to that.. France giving you independence from Britain was forgotten as it needed you until you decided to join in the fight. How different the war may have been if you joined in straight away and came to defend Frances borders?
You Also did extremely well out of the deal. Capitalizing on the farming and manufacturing industries that you then sold to a broke world. You became a super power due to this. You did well indeed..only to off shore that that made you the country. A country were a fair wage was paid and people prospered.

Maybe spend some of your disposable income and visit other parts of the world. Its an amazing place and a great way to learn that people are just people. New ideas, food, drinks, drugs, new "things"..its amazing. The language they speak doesnt mean much if anything at all.


Now instead of history lessons (Dont mention the war!) can we move back to topic..Economics. The against team has so far failed to supply any economics to support their argument.
You've hit the nail on the head, right here; Americans are stupid, because they don't know their history, don't remember their friends and have even forgotten what made us a great nation in the first place.

Pathetic, isn't it?
 

Michael Huntherz

Well-Known Member
On that, has NYC turned into a storage locker for world-wide Billionaires? Real question here not poking.
I don't know what you mean, but it does make me realize it is a global billionaire-class problem. And the global magic power of certain companies/families to print the money for the rest of us. - problematic. Let's fix our country a bit first, if we can, then tackle the global central bank cabal.
 
Become self sufficient and break the tie of needing the tax money. I am off setting the cost of food by hunting in season and filling my entire backyard with food producing plants. It's a balance, I respect what I eat because McD is bullshit and should not have made it this far. Sale: transfer of enthusiasm from one person to another, i.e. marketing advertisers. McHippies found out peace don't sell.
 

Michael Huntherz

Well-Known Member
No it is not. An employer hires an employee and that employee uses his labor to create products or services worth more than the amount he is being compensated. At the end of the day the employee has compensation in the form of wages and the employer has created value.

Redistribution of wealth does not create value.

The left keeps thinking they can steal from the rich to make the poor rich and it never works the way they think it will.

Look at growth over the last 7 years.
You're an ideological blowhole. You don't actually make any arguments, you just parrot your billionaire-protectionist ideology. What about consumers? You left consumers out of the equation. Who buys the product if the vast majority of people are broke as fuck? Where is value in creating a product that can't be sold because there are no buyers? How robust is your economy with just a few consumers and everyone else barely surviving? Your supply-side religion is pathetic, and I'm not letting people argue this one-dimensional shit unchallenged any more. No value is created if there is no consumer. Consumers drive job creation, consumption of goods and services drives the fucking creation of new jobs. Heard? Not business owners, consumers.

 
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NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Why would the vast amount of people be broke if they had jobs?

Our unemployment rate is somewhere near 20%

Jobs create value and grow the economy. Redistribution does not.

Obama spent more than all the other presidents combined and it didnt do shit for the economy.

Again, you cant take money from one pocket, put it in another pocket and claim it is income.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
You're an ideological blowhole. You don't actually make any arguments, you just parrot your billionaire-protectionist ideology. What about consumers? You left consumers out of the equation. Who buys the product if the vast majority of people are broke as fuck? Where is value in creating a product that can't be sold because there are no buyers? How robust is your economy with just a few consumers and everyone else barely surviving? Your supply-side religion is pathetic, and I'm not letting people argue this one-dimensional shit unchallenged any more. No value is created if there is no consumer. Consumers drive job creation, consumption of goods and services drives the fucking creation of new jobs. Heard? Not business owners, consumers.

This is the same village idiot who earlier today complained that seaports were built at sea level, where they're vulnerable to sea level rise due to anthropogenic climate change.

After awhile, you just use the ignore button.
 
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UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
No, I said people who were not protected from the environment would relocate. I was not referring to the seaports idiot. I was referring to people building their homes at sea level and then being surprised when they flood at high tide.

This started when some genius posited that 2" ocean rise would result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people... Bullshit.... Amazing level of bullshit....
didn't you also claim that forest fires cause global cooling?
 
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