Is the World Flat? The Flatlander's theory..

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whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
It's tiring but not bad he's worth it and makes me smile in the tiredness of it all
Plus I sleep or nap when he does and on weekends my husband takes night feedings

It's 3am here and we're up right now having some milk !
But he's gotten better he's sleeping about 3-4 hours now rather than 2-3 so I really only get up once a night now
He'll eat at 10 or 11 pm and than get up at 2-3 and than sleep until 6-8 ish
Every one of mine ate about every three hours.

My wife and I would take turns feeding at night. We would get more sleep that way.

Also all our kids started getting cereal in their bottles by six months old. I think a couple were in it by three months.
 

reddan1981

Well-Known Member
I don't know you aren't a bigot Abe, especially after your faux holocaust baloney and then the appropriation of a menorah. You also said you would stop going on at Pablo after he agreed to leave you alone, then you went around bringing him up. Where there is smoke there is usually fire. I think you've earned pablo on your ass at this point.
Do you ever question your own behaviour? You probably aren't even interested in a 'nobody's' comments eh? Superlative verbosity.........
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
LOL, confirmation bias, good one.
Close but no cigar... Confirmation bias refers to our tendency to pay attention to information which confirms our ideas rather than information that falsifies them.

Here is an example: (EDIT: an example of confirmation bias) First look at this picture. These are four cards. Each card will have a letter on one side, and a number on the other.

12745518_612178412263358_7529358029049467538_n.png

Now, here is the idea we want to test:

>>If a card has an "A" on one side it will have a "7" on the other side.<<

Which card(s) must you turn over to determine whether the statement is false?

I'll put the remainder of my comment in white text. It will be invisible until you drag your mouse over it. Remember, this isn't an intelligence test, it's a demonstration of bias.

The cards that are relevant are 'A' and '4'. The 'D' and the '7' do not matter. Why do we ignore the 'D' and '7'? Well, look again at the statement we are testing. It is a conditional if-then statement. 'D' does not satisfy the 'if A' part of the statement, and so it is irrelevant to our test. Most people recognize this. Intuitively, the '7' seems relevant, but it can only serve to confirm our statement, and could never falsify it. If we turn over the '7' and find an 'A', it could just be coincidence. If we turn over the '7' and find a 'B', then 'B' doesn't satisfy the 'If A', and so, again, it is irrelevant. We cannot test the statement if we have not satisfied the "if". IOW, the original statement does not say that we wont find other letters corresponding to "7", and so finding a "B" with "7" on the other side would not falsify the premise. Turning over the 7 could only offer a confirmation of unknown relevance.
 
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Cannacat

Well-Known Member
Oh I knew it, I said that, I knew it wasn't the 7! Ok so I know you said it wasn't an intelligence test, but it is really, right?
Close but no cigar... Confirmation bias refers to our tendency to pay attention to information which confirms our ideas rather than information that falsifies them.

Here is an example: First look at this picture. These are four cards. Each card will have a letter on one side, and a number on the other.

View attachment 3701910

Now, here is the idea we want to test:

>>If a card has an "A" on one side it will have a "7" on the other side.<<

Which card(s) must you turn over to determine whether the statement is false?

I'll put the remainder of my comment in white text. It will be invisible until you drag your mouse over it. Remember, this isn't an intelligence test, it's a demonstration of bias.

The cards that are relevant are 'A' and '4'. The 'D' and the '7' do not matter. Why do we ignore the 'D' and '7'? Well, look again at the statement we are testing. It is a conditional if-then statement. 'D' does not satisfy the 'if A' part of the statement, and so it is irrelevant to our test. Most people recognize this. Intuitively, the '7' seems relevant, but it can only serve to confirm our statement, and could never falsify it. If we turn over the '7' and find an 'A', it could just be coincidence. If we turn over the '7' and find a 'B', then 'B' doesn't satisfy the 'If A', and so, again, it is irrelevant. We cannot test the statement if we have not satisfied the "if". IOW, the original statement does not say that we wont find other letters corresponding to "7", and so finding a "B" with "7" on the other side would not falsify the premise. Turning over the 7 could only offer a confirmation of unknown relevance.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Oh I knew it, I said that, I knew it wasn't the 7! Ok so I know you said it wasn't an intelligence test, but it is really, right?
Hehe, nope. Biases affect the dumb and the brilliant alike. They are an integral part of the architecture of our thinking, and we can never exile them. If you were not compelled to check the '7' card, it may indicate that you tend to think analytically rather than intuitively. So, it means you are thoughtful, but it doesn't necessarily mean you are smart. Regardless, it's certainly a check in the pros column.

So, do you have another guess as to the error the meme refers to?
 

Cannacat

Well-Known Member
Hehe, nope. Biases affect the dumb and the brilliant alike. They are an integral part of the architecture of our thinking, and we can never exile them. If you were not compelled to check the '7' card, it may indicate that you tend to think analytically rather than intuitively. So, it means you are thoughtful, but it doesn't necessarily mean you are smart. Regardless, it's certainly a check in the pros column.

So, do you have another guess as to the error the meme refers to?
Well I wouldn't have made a guess because I'm not remotely confident in my answer but, since you asked directly, I thought neglect of probability but then that seemed too obvious and there must be more to it with comparing one to the other.

I don't know, is the short answer but I'm desperately seeking approval now and couldn't just say that. It's sad really, I apologise. I'm gonna go hide in a corner until I get used to this new weed (I had to buy it, waiting for a cheese harvest!:cuss:)
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Close but no cigar... Confirmation bias refers to our tendency to pay attention to information which confirms our ideas rather than information that falsifies them.

......snip....... her letters corresponding to "7", and so finding a "B" with "7" on the other side would not falsify the premise. Turning over the 7 could only offer a confirmation of unknown relevance.
Philosophy 101 is as far as I went. So it's quite possible I am wrong. I did not look at the answer (yet). Here's my thinking if A then 7 is the conditional I read for so I'd turn over the A. I would not look for symmetry and turn the 7.

I still hold I was right on the confirmation bias, @cannabineer I'm curious what his take on it is LOL. I love this shit for as terrible as I am at it. Thanks for playing.

PS if you mean post hoc it's a subset of confirmation bias
 
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cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Close but no cigar... Confirmation bias refers to our tendency to pay attention to information which confirms our ideas rather than information that falsifies them.
But that is exactly the situation Annie identified! The people hearing the noises made the invalid conclusion that noises outside had something to do with noises heard in correlation. Confirmation bias operates off our tendency to invalid correlations.
Here is an example: First look at this picture. These are four cards. Each card will have a letter on one side, and a number on the other.

View attachment 3701910

Now, here is the idea we want to test:

>>If a card has an "A" on one side it will have a "7" on the other side.<<

Which card(s) must you turn over to determine whether the statement is false?
Only turning card A will test the premise. The D and 4 are irrelevant. The 7 card is disqualified because the statement is hierarchical. ~edit~ If A then 7 is the compact formulation as Annie noted.

All As will be marked 7 on the obverse.
But that is not specified for all 7s, so turning the 7 tests a cognate but logically distinct premise. We tend to symmetrize.
I'll put the remainder of my comment in white text. It will be invisible until you drag your mouse over it. Remember, this isn't an intelligence test, it's a demonstration of bias.

The cards that are relevant are 'A' and '4'. The 'D' and the '7' do not matter. Why do we ignore the 'D' and '7'? Well, look again at the statement we are testing. It is a conditional if-then statement. 'D' does not satisfy the 'if A' part of the statement, and so it is irrelevant to our test. Most people recognize this. Intuitively, the '7' seems relevant, but it can only serve to confirm our statement, and could never falsify it. If we turn over the '7' and find an 'A', it could just be coincidence. If we turn over the '7' and find a 'B', then 'B' doesn't satisfy the 'If A', and so, again, it is irrelevant. We cannot test the statement if we have not satisfied the "if". IOW, the original statement does not say that we wont find other letters corresponding to "7", and so finding a "B" with "7" on the other side would not falsify the premise. Turning over the 7 could only offer a confirmation of unknown relevance.
 

Cannacat

Well-Known Member
But that is exactly the situation Annie identified! The people hearing the noises made the invalid conclusion that noises outside had something to do with noises heard in correlation. Confirmation bias operates off our tendency to invalid correlations.

Only turning card A will test the premise. The D and 4 are irrelevant. The 7 card is disqualified because the statement is hierarchical. ~edit~ If A then 7 is the compact formulation as Annie noted.

All As will be marked 7 on the obverse.
But that is not specified for all 7s, so turning the 7 tests a cognate but logically distinct premise. We tend to symmetrize.
I love all that stuff, I could never explain it like that! I kind of understand it on an instinctive level, but it's a very uneducated kind of understanding and I would never be able to explain it so that anybody else could make sense of it. I really wish I'd studied philosophy; I'm thinking about doing a degree in the next few years so maybe I can get that in somehow. Plenty of time to figure it out, I have to pick an access course first....

Edit: Would it be included at all in psychology? Maybe not the best place to be asking advice about my education but you're probably the people most qualified to help that I've spoken to recently.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
But that is exactly the situation Annie identified! The people hearing the noises made the invalid conclusion that noises outside had something to do with noises heard in correlation. Confirmation bias operates off our tendency to invalid correlations.
Confirmation bias involves an active pursuit for truth/accuracy. So, if we already thought that there was a killer outside, the noise could serve to confirm our idea. However, in my example the noise itself gave rise to the idea. We were biased in our idea, but it wasn't confirmation bias. It was representative bias, which is a result of being primed by the horror movie. This is known as the availability heuristic, which is what I was looking for.

"The availability heuristic is a mental shortcut that relies on immediate examples that come to a given person's mind when evaluating a specific topic, concept, method or decision." The more easily the example comes to mind, the more confident of it we tend to be.

Only turning card A will test the premise. The D and 4 are irrelevant. The 7 card is disqualified because the statement is hierarchical. ~edit~ If A then 7 is the compact formulation as Annie noted.

All As will be marked 7 on the obverse.
But that is not specified for all 7s, so turning the 7 tests a cognate but logically distinct premise. We tend to symmetrize.
Ah, but if the 4 had an 'A' on the other side, it would falsify the premise. You've just experienced confirmation bias. ;)
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Name that cognitive error.

View attachment 3701901
If you are looking for post hoc ergo propter hoc, I contend that this is a contained subset within confirmation bias.

Post hoc is the confirmation half of the term - the "confirmed" article is soon after but (almost?) always after the "biasing" experience.

Propter hoc is the "bias" portion wherein the fact of correlation is used to argue the maybe-spurious causation.

Philosophy isn't biology ... fallacies are not species. There is blur and overlap between the categories, which is belied by the apparent taxonomic crispness of the terms chosen for those categories of fallacy. (Which fallacy does that phenomenon invoke?)
 

Cannacat

Well-Known Member
Confirmation bias involves an active pursuit for truth/accuracy. So, if we already thought that there was a killer outside, the noise could serve to confirm our idea. However, in my example the noise itself gave rise to the idea. We were biased in our idea, but it wasn't confirmation bias. It was representative bias, which is a result of being primed by the horror movie. This is known as the availability heuristic, which is what I was looking for.

"The availability heuristic is a mental shortcut that relies on immediate examples that come to a given person's mind when evaluating a specific topic, concept, method or decision." The more easily the example comes to mind, the more confident of it we tend to be.



Ah, but if the 4 had an 'A' on the other side, it would falsify the premise. You've just experienced confirmation bias. ;)
But I was just less confident in my answer because it came too easily to mind, is that a cognitive bias of some kind?
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Confirmation bias involves an active pursuit for truth/accuracy. So, if we already thought that there was a killer outside, the noise could serve to confirm our idea. However, in my example the noise itself gave rise to the idea. We were biased in our idea, but it wasn't confirmation bias. It was representative bias, which is a result of being primed by the horror movie. This is known as the availability heuristic, which is what I was looking for.

"The availability heuristic is a mental shortcut that relies on immediate examples that come to a given person's mind when evaluating a specific topic, concept, method or decision." The more easily the example comes to mind, the more confident of it we tend to be.



Ah, but if the 4 had an 'A' on the other side, it would falsify the premise. You've just experienced confirmation bias. ;)
You're talking pure post hoc ergo propter hoc. That is why it is a subset of confirmation bias because only then does the preceding factor matter, with confirmation bias the antecedent is not important.

If A then 7 is falsifiable, directly on it's face.

PS @Cannacat I wish I had CN's language skills too, pure poetry.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
But I was just less confident in my answer because it came too easily to mind, is that a cognitive bias of some kind?
It's hard to say without knowing more about you. It sounds like it could be the Dunning-Kruger effect. People who are incompetent, and those who are highly competent, both tend to rate themselves closer to average than they deserve. Incompetent people tend to be arrogant and overly confident, while highly competent people tend to be modest and overly cautious.

Then again, it could be impostor syndrome. ;)
 

Cannacat

Well-Known Member
It's hard to say without knowing more about you. It sounds like it could be the Dunning-Kruger effect. People who are incompetent, and those who are highly competent, both tend to rate themselves closer to average than they deserve. Incompetent people tend to be arrogant and overly confident, while highly competent people tend to be modest and overly cautious.

Then again, it could be impostor syndrome. ;)
You're not starting all that "sock" business again are you?!

I wouldn't say I was incompetent or highly competent; I know I'm much smarter than some, but a lot less so than others. :bigjoint:

Edit: So I just googled impostor syndrome, and it reminded me of this recurring dream I've had for years where I'm driving around, just doing normal things, picking the kids up, getting the shopping, having normal conversations, and the whole time I'm thinking, "Someone's gonna realise I can't drive, they're gonna find out I don't know how to drive."
 
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