How I potentially stumbled across a major minor cannabinoid

[nortwood]

I don't claim to be a breeder, or even a great grower, but I can water a plant and I've always had an affinity for this one in particular.

Some years ago we decided to have some quantitative analysis performed by Cannalytics. It was a a very basic analysis only quantifying THC/CBD/CBN. I can't remember how many strains we had tested, but a lemon skunk and a hindu kush came back practically identical in terms of percentages and ratios. I concluded that this form of testing was absolutely worthless. These two plants couldn't be more dissimilar. The lemon is a nice stony indica with a heavy citrus fragrance (9-10 weeks tops) and the hk is more like a passable landrace that takes closer to 11 weeks with well rounded effects and very earthy tones. It's also important to note that we felt the hk would likely be the most different from the rest based on its effects prior to any testing. I had read up on Russo, so I was vaguely familiar with monoterpenes and such, but nobody was offering quantitative analysis in MI for them at that time.

Later Iron Labs started offering more complete profiles, and I needed to have oil tested for a particular patient to ensure that it was what it had been claimed to me to be (cannatonic 4), so I had complete profiles run on a few different things including the ls and hk again. The THC/CBD/CBN were very close to Cannalytics, but there was an additional 8% CBG identified in the hk. Initially, I was so caught up in the terpenes that I didn't really realize how high of a % of CBG that was. This was possibly due to my focus on the terpenes. I saw that the dominant terpene in ls was beta-myrcene, which seemed to make a lot of sense. For the hk I wasn't entirely sure if I could chalk the effects up to the dominant terpene which was alpha-Terpinine, or if I should attribute it to the CBG, or both. I felt like I needed a larger sample of data to weed through in order to make any heads or tails out of seeking desired effects through specific cannabinoids/terpenes. I couldn't search any site for terpenes (though there are a few not in MI that currently have this feature), but I felt that collectively shared data could put the community on pace with the likes of GW, and beyond. Unfortunately, I couldn't get anyone to play along so I put it on the back burner. The fact that I'm over 5 hours from the bridge doesn't help as far as getting my samples run. I'm a one man show and I recently had my first child so over the past few years I've seen my level of free time rapidly diminish. Plus I'm anti-social as fuck. Anyway, I think it was towards the end of last year when I saw some stories about subcool or somebody working on developing CBG strains citing 1.5-2% as being a high % that I fully realized what I may have stumbled across.

This cut is of unknown origins. I got it from a super shady hole in the wall retail store in Lansing on my way back from a show in GR shortly after the law went into effect. I have no idea if anyone else is in possession of it. If they are they haven't had it tested (though another hk was recently tested at 3% in MI).

I've been spending the last year looking for new keepers to bring in, so I haven't run the hk in a while, but it's next in line to go into a room that has a ways to go. I'll document it here. I have a sample on hand from a buddy of mine who didn't pull off his best round. I'll post the results of that sample as well as the table from my room when it's done.

Assuming it's not a fluke I'll self it and cross it with other keepers to see if the trait is passed on.

Here is the profile:

Here's the tip of the iceberg in terms of medicinal benefits (a patient with bowel issues has used this cut for years):


Beneficial effect of the non-psychotropic plant cannabinoid cannabigerol on experimental inflammatory bowel disease


Colon carcinogenesis is inhibited by the TRPM8 antagonist cannabigerol, a Cannabis-derived non-psychotropic cannabinoid


Boron trifluoride etherate on silica-A modified Lewis acid reagent (VII). Antitumor activity of cannabigerol against human oral epitheloid carcinoma cells


Neuroprotective properties of cannabigerol in Huntington's disease: studies in R6/2 mice and 3-nitropropionate-lesioned mice


Effect of Non-psychotropic Plant-derived Cannabinoids on Bladder Contractility: Focus on Cannabigerol.


Intraocular pressure, ocular toxicity and neurotoxicity after administration of cannabinol or cannabigerol


Evidence that the plant cannabinoid cannabigerol is a highly potent α2‐adrenoceptor agonist and moderately potent 5HT1A receptor antagonist

 

[captainmorgan]

I like this and hope you keep us up to date. I have a friend that has one of the bowel diseases,I think it's ulcerative colitis and have been talking to him about oils,he's not a cannabis user but he's on disability now and having a rough time. I wonder if something like this is what he needs.

 

[abe supercro]

 

[qwizoking]

that does seem like a high ratio from the little i know..
cool man, im sure in the next 20 years or so we'll have different strains with higher and tailored ratios of the some 200 compounds (all hit receptors for the most part)

 

[abe supercro]

You must be towards the upper northern most spot of the u.p. You ever hear of copper harbor?

 

[blu3bird]

I don't claim to be a breeder, or even a great grower, but I can water a plant and I've always had an affinity for this one in particular.

Some years ago we decided to have some quantitative analysis performed by Cannalytics. It was a a very basic analysis only quantifying THC/CBD/CBN. I can't remember how many strains we had tested, but a lemon skunk and a hindu kush came back practically identical in terms of percentages and ratios. I concluded that this form of testing was absolutely worthless. These two plants couldn't be more dissimilar. The lemon is a nice stony indica with a heavy citrus fragrance (9-10 weeks tops) and the hk is more like a passable landrace that takes closer to 11 weeks with well rounded effects and very earthy tones. It's also important to note that we felt the hk would likely be the most different from the rest based on its effects prior to any testing. I had read up on Russo, so I was vaguely familiar with monoterpenes and such, but nobody was offering quantitative analysis in MI for them at that time.

Later Iron Labs started offering more complete profiles, and I needed to have oil tested for a particular patient to ensure that it was what it had been claimed to me to be (cannatonic 4), so I had complete profiles run on a few different things including the ls and hk again. The THC/CBD/CBN were very close to Cannalytics, but there was an additional 8% CBG identified in the hk. Initially, I was so caught up in the terpenes that I didn't really realize how high of a % of CBG that was. This was possibly due to my focus on the terpenes. I saw that the dominant terpene in ls was beta-myrcene, which seemed to make a lot of sense. For the hk I wasn't entirely sure if I could chalk the effects up to the dominant terpene which was alpha-Terpinine, or if I should attribute it to the CBG, or both. I felt like I needed a larger sample of data to weed through in order to make any heads or tails out of seeking desired effects through specific cannabinoids/terpenes. I couldn't search any site for terpenes (though there are a few not in MI that currently have this feature), but I felt that collectively shared data could put the community on pace with the likes of GW, and beyond. Unfortunately, I couldn't get anyone to play along so I put it on the back burner. The fact that I'm over 5 hours from the bridge doesn't help as far as getting my samples run. I'm a one man show and I recently had my first child so over the past few years I've seen my level of free time rapidly diminish. Plus I'm anti-social as fuck. Anyway, I think it was towards the end of last year when I saw some stories about subcool or somebody working on developing CBG strains citing 1.5-2% as being a high % that I fully realized what I may have stumbled across.

This cut is of unknown origins. I got it from a super shady hole in the wall retail store in Lansing on my way back from a show in GR shortly after the law went into effect. I have no idea if anyone else is in possession of it. If they are they haven't had it tested (though another hk was recently tested at 3% in MI).

I've been spending the last year looking for new keepers to bring in, so I haven't run the hk in a while, but it's next in line to go into a room that has a ways to go. I'll document it here. I have a sample on hand from a buddy of mine who didn't pull off his best round. I'll post the results of that sample as well as the table from my room when it's done.

Assuming it's not a fluke I'll self it and cross it with other keepers to see if the trait is passed on.

Here is the profile:

Here's the tip of the iceberg in terms of medicinal benefits (a patient with bowel issues has used this cut for years):


Beneficial effect of the non-psychotropic plant cannabinoid cannabigerol on experimental inflammatory bowel disease


Colon carcinogenesis is inhibited by the TRPM8 antagonist cannabigerol, a Cannabis-derived non-psychotropic cannabinoid


Boron trifluoride etherate on silica-A modified Lewis acid reagent (VII). Antitumor activity of cannabigerol against human oral epitheloid carcinoma cells


Neuroprotective properties of cannabigerol in Huntington's disease: studies in R6/2 mice and 3-nitropropionate-lesioned mice


Effect of Non-psychotropic Plant-derived Cannabinoids on Bladder Contractility: Focus on Cannabigerol.


Intraocular pressure, ocular toxicity and neurotoxicity after administration of cannabinol or cannabigerol


Evidence that the plant cannabinoid cannabigerol is a highly potent α2‐adrenoceptor agonist and moderately potent 5HT1A receptor antagonist

Pretty fascinating stuff nortwood.

I'll be honest, I was always skeptical of mj medicinal qualities. Until a few years ago I smoked some bubble hash with one of my buddies oldest kid (he was 19). The boy has Tourette syndrome and has these uncontrollable "ticks" I believe they're called. His arms and head would twitch somewhat violently at times, really a pain in the ass for the poor kid. Come to find out, when he smoked the bubble hash, those "ticks" would almost completely go away or be a lot less severe. For once in this kids life, he could actually sit still now. Ever since then I'll always wash up all my trim and make that bubble to give to him so he can have some control over his syndrome.

I believe his doctors always had him on some kind of disgusting benzodiazepines, that didn't even work or help the condition. He don't take them anymore, and I feel good about helping that kid. I feel like we're giving a big "Fuck you" to these doctors and pharmaceutical companies.

 

[nortwood]

If anyone else has identified alpha-terpinine as the dominant terpene in a chemotype they're running I'd be interested in discussing the effects and comparing notes. It's possible that I can snatch up some hk material in order to have some oil at the cup. Lots of unknown variables at the moment. Procrastination is a bitch.

Never been to Copper Harbor.

 

[Dr.Pecker]

I don't claim to be a breeder, or even a great grower, but I can water a plant and I've always had an affinity for this one in particular.

Some years ago we decided to have some quantitative analysis performed by Cannalytics. It was a a very basic analysis only quantifying THC/CBD/CBN. I can't remember how many strains we had tested, but a lemon skunk and a hindu kush came back practically identical in terms of percentages and ratios. I concluded that this form of testing was absolutely worthless. These two plants couldn't be more dissimilar. The lemon is a nice stony indica with a heavy citrus fragrance (9-10 weeks tops) and the hk is more like a passable landrace that takes closer to 11 weeks with well rounded effects and very earthy tones. It's also important to note that we felt the hk would likely be the most different from the rest based on its effects prior to any testing. I had read up on Russo, so I was vaguely familiar with monoterpenes and such, but nobody was offering quantitative analysis in MI for them at that time.

Later Iron Labs started offering more complete profiles, and I needed to have oil tested for a particular patient to ensure that it was what it had been claimed to me to be (cannatonic 4), so I had complete profiles run on a few different things including the ls and hk again. The THC/CBD/CBN were very close to Cannalytics, but there was an additional 8% CBG identified in the hk. Initially, I was so caught up in the terpenes that I didn't really realize how high of a % of CBG that was. This was possibly due to my focus on the terpenes. I saw that the dominant terpene in ls was beta-myrcene, which seemed to make a lot of sense. For the hk I wasn't entirely sure if I could chalk the effects up to the dominant terpene which was alpha-Terpinine, or if I should attribute it to the CBG, or both. I felt like I needed a larger sample of data to weed through in order to make any heads or tails out of seeking desired effects through specific cannabinoids/terpenes. I couldn't search any site for terpenes (though there are a few not in MI that currently have this feature), but I felt that collectively shared data could put the community on pace with the likes of GW, and beyond. Unfortunately, I couldn't get anyone to play along so I put it on the back burner. The fact that I'm over 5 hours from the bridge doesn't help as far as getting my samples run. I'm a one man show and I recently had my first child so over the past few years I've seen my level of free time rapidly diminish. Plus I'm anti-social as fuck. Anyway, I think it was towards the end of last year when I saw some stories about subcool or somebody working on developing CBG strains citing 1.5-2% as being a high % that I fully realized what I may have stumbled across.

This cut is of unknown origins. I got it from a super shady hole in the wall retail store in Lansing on my way back from a show in GR shortly after the law went into effect. I have no idea if anyone else is in possession of it. If they are they haven't had it tested (though another hk was recently tested at 3% in MI).

I've been spending the last year looking for new keepers to bring in, so I haven't run the hk in a while, but it's next in line to go into a room that has a ways to go. I'll document it here. I have a sample on hand from a buddy of mine who didn't pull off his best round. I'll post the results of that sample as well as the table from my room when it's done.

Assuming it's not a fluke I'll self it and cross it with other keepers to see if the trait is passed on.

Here is the profile:

Here's the tip of the iceberg in terms of medicinal benefits (a patient with bowel issues has used this cut for years):


Beneficial effect of the non-psychotropic plant cannabinoid cannabigerol on experimental inflammatory bowel disease


Colon carcinogenesis is inhibited by the TRPM8 antagonist cannabigerol, a Cannabis-derived non-psychotropic cannabinoid


Boron trifluoride etherate on silica-A modified Lewis acid reagent (VII). Antitumor activity of cannabigerol against human oral epitheloid carcinoma cells


Neuroprotective properties of cannabigerol in Huntington's disease: studies in R6/2 mice and 3-nitropropionate-lesioned mice


Effect of Non-psychotropic Plant-derived Cannabinoids on Bladder Contractility: Focus on Cannabigerol.


Intraocular pressure, ocular toxicity and neurotoxicity after administration of cannabinol or cannabigerol


Evidence that the plant cannabinoid cannabigerol is a highly potent α2‐adrenoceptor agonist and moderately potent 5HT1A receptor antagonist

I would try to get it tested at multiple labs just to make sure it wasn't screwed up somehow. If the test is accurate then nice find.

 

[nortwood]

I was planning on using PSI, but someone keeps swaying me towards the Spot. Not certain I trust the technology, but since it's just a second opinion, and I don't necessarily need the terpene profile again, I think I may give them a try.

 

[captainmorgan]

I've been using PSI for my testing.

 

[nortwood]

Big 'ole goose egg from the hk sample from PSI. It came in at 14.9% total with less than 1% CBG. I knew it wasn't a great representation of the chemotype, but I still hoped to see a significant ratio. In my mind this either means: the percentage and ratio of CBG directly correlates to THC production (like THCV), or the first test was inaccurate. Based on CBGA being a precursor for other cannabinoids it seems unlikely to me that there's some sort of reverse association. Regardless, I'll run the hk myself in about 4 weeks and take a sample at 8, 9, and 10 weeks for PSI to run. I'll also likely have the spott take a gander with their UPLC-MS. I've learned that THC and CBG spikes are difficult to differentiate with GC/MS and HPLC.

 

[Corso312]

Very nice...wasn't aware that you could drive 5 hours north of bridge without hitting Canada.

 

[captainmorgan]

Big 'ole goose egg from the hk sample from PSI. It came in at 14.9% total with less than 1% CBG. I knew it wasn't a great representation of the chemotype, but I still hoped to see a significant ratio. In my mind this either means: the percentage and ratio of CBG directly correlates to THC production (like THCV), or the first test was inaccurate. Based on CBGA being a precursor for other cannabinoids it seems unlikely to me that there's some sort of reverse association. Regardless, I'll run the hk myself in about 4 weeks and take a sample at 8, 9, and 10 weeks for PSI to run. I'll also likely have the spott take a gander with their UPLC-MS. I've learned that THC and CBG spikes are difficult to differentiate with GC/MS and HPLC.

Did you talk to Ben or Lev about your sample and what your looking for? By looking at Lev's resume I would trust his results but it doesn't hurt to ask if there may be a problem,Ben was very receptive to me when I questioned some results and retested for free.

 

[nortwood]

I had an opportunity to speak to Ben. He informed me of the difficulties, particularly given the margin or error. I did say that I was looking for CBG, but I'm not sure that I told him which sample I thought it was in. I may have let it slip, but I purposefully didn't want them to know. At this point I'm not going to test the current material again. When I have a proper material I'll settle this.

Okay, 5 hours was a bit of an exaggeration. It's closer to 4.

 

[qwizoking]

In my mindthis either means: the percentage and ratio of CBG directlycorrelates to THC production(like THCV), or the first test was inaccurate. Based on CBGAbeing a precursor for othercannabinoids it seems unlikely to me that there's some sort of reverse association.











im sort of confused..
essentially..for thc anyway

Geranyl pyrophosphate and a precursor to olivetolic acid react, a c12 (for pentyl) c10(forpropyl)polyketide,then through cyclization yielding olivetolic acid..

then catalyzed by an enzyme toproduce cannabigerolic acid along with alkylation .. The production of Thc (and propyl)thcv cbd cbdv and cbc cbcv are controlled by 3 different enzymes Thca synthase being the enzyme converting cbga to thca through an oxidative cyclization of the geranyl group on cbga(of course this is all a bit, well really simplified for y'all) geranyldiphosphate + olivetolate =cannabigerolate + diphosphate..cannabigerolate + O(2) = Delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinolate + H(2)O(2)


but the base in a way is cbg
so it does directly correlate to other cannabinoid production







what exactly are you thinking

 

[nortwood]

Honestly, I wasn't even thinking that specifically. What I meant was simply that you'll never find THCV in a chemotype that doesn't contain considerable amounts of THC. I don't see the same holding true for CBG. I would expect that even in a poorly grown sample that a similar ratio of THC:CBG would be present, assuming that there's CBG to begin with.

I really should spend some time learning more about cannabinoid and terpene synthesis. Do you have a resource you could recommend? I suppose google scholar is my friend.

 

[WolfieLee]

Firstly - Great work and very interesting stuff for sure, thanks and keep it up! Watching...

You must be towards the upper northern most spot of the u.p. You ever hear of copper harbor?

On a fall color trip with the folks in 93 when I got home from the Army to visit my Dad's old RR buddy in Escenaba (SP.?), my Mother and I took a day trip to copper harbor (nearly the most Northern point in MI, if ya don't know) had and Awesome Lunch right on the shores of Lake Superior. On the trip home, I got a chance to Photgraph what turned out to be prob the best picture of my life.... A georgeous Golden Orange Sunset on a small inland lake in the yard of a nice Summer cabin.
Thanks for sparking some great memories of one of the most beautiful places I have ever had the pleasure of visiting....

Okay, 5 hours was a bit of an exaggeration. It's closer to 4.

Well, if you're out for a Sunday drive and drive West....[shrugs]