How would you improve public education?

[MrRoboto]

As far as the United States is concerned, if you denounce your citizenship, the government doesn't care what you do, just as long as it's not on US soil. You'd have to apply for a Visa if you wish to stay in the United States for any period of time, just as any other non-citizen person should do.

Taxation is country specific and are not "transferrable" among consortium of countries.

I think the point you and I are trying to make is that Wesley and other tax dodgers need to pay up. They were given rights under the Constitution of the United States along with a vast plethora of "freedoms", and in return they contribute to the government that has provided for them. If they wish to no longer contribute, then denounce and be on their way.

Sounds familiar, like a racist saying go back to Africa.

 

[whitebb2727]

yeah when i grew up it was as long as i was passing lol.. then once i hit high school i was i was plumbing everyday after school and most weekends with my dad. i think he realized i wouldnt be fucked with how i worked. now i run my own little plumbing business. but i agree if i had kids id hope theyd want to do something a little easier than plumbing. work smart not hard type of thing. keep em on top of school work

Don't sell yourself short. Any skilled trade is a trade to be proud of.

I'm not a fan of homework. If I can pass the test and show I know the info then homework is pointless.

People learn differently and some people don't respond well to pointless trivial homework.

I think I would like to see some changes based on that. Allow for schools that teach different ways.

I'm a hands on kind of guy. Some are not.

School should conform to the way I want to learn not I conform to learn at it.

 

[see4]

Sounds familiar, like a racist saying go back to Africa.

Not at all. But nice try. You assume and read into what I said too much. Reread what I said and focus only on the merits of my points, not at the fluffy stuff not discussed.

 

[Rob Roy]

Makes sense, but you're over simplifying "forceable coercion".


Totally agree


Alabama, Mississippi, Arizona and New Mexico all said the same thing. Now the dumbest people in the country are "educated" in these aforementioned states. So much for that theory.


You're being silly.

Please explain how my definition of coercion is not correct.

If a person or group of persons claims to be able to do something which is wrong if you or I do it to them, but not if they do it to us, question the education they say they are providing. It's indoctrination.

nobody requires you to pay taxes, you do voluntarily.

ask wesley snipes how not paying worked out for him.

You just espoused two opposing points of view at once there. One that payment is voluntary, the other that a person will be harmed for noncompliance, which sort of disapproves the voluntary part.

I know it's hard, but please try to keep one side of your mouth from interrupting the other side.

 

[zeddd]

For university education; raise the entrance qualifications and make it free, this will reduce costs and raise standards.

 

[Rob Roy]

For university education; raise the entrance qualifications and make it free, this will reduce costs and raise standards.

I don't understand how it could be "free" ....could you explain how that will work?

The staff will work there on a voluntary basis and all the supplies will be donated ? Food will appear in the dining hall magically and the buildings will maintain themselves?

 

[zeddd]

I don't understand how it could be "free" ....could you explain how that will work?

The staff will work there on a voluntary basis and all the supplies will be donated ? Food will appear in the dining hall magically and the buildings will maintain themselves?

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

 

[Unclebaldrick]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

No, he can't help himself.

 

[zeddd]

In the UK we used to have free tertiary ed for genuinely bright people, we paid for the professors and shit out of tax, free for students ffs​

 

[see4]

Please explain how my definition of coercion is not correct.
If a person or group of persons claims to be able to do something which is wrong if you or I do it to them, but not if they do it to us, question the education they say they are providing. It's indoctrination.

Your definition of coercion is not the argument, rather the use of it, is.

When Thomas Chong opened up his restaurant on the upper east side he had no expectation that Fat Tony would be stopping by every week demanding protection money, for absolutely nothing in return. Mr Chong was coerced into giving Mr Tony Giovanni money for nothing in exchanged. Mr Chong was being extorted.

When Thomas Chong opened up his restaurant on the upper east side he had full expectation that he'd have to pay sales tax and property taxes on the food he sold and the building he owned. Mr Chong was not coerced, he had a choice. The taxes he paid would go on to be used for things that would help him and his community, things like safe streets, clean water, healthy air, and for the most part protection from enemies, both foreign and domestic.

There is an implicit relationship between taxes and "what we get". That is not coercion. If you choose not to pay taxes, you are choosing not to participate in the society you are not contributing to. Pretty simple concept if you ask me.

 

[see4]

In the UK we used to have free tertiary ed for genuinely bright people, we paid for the professors and shit out of tax, free for students ffs​

And Oxford is one of the greatest educational facilities on the planet.

 

[Rob Roy]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

No.

Being obtuse is not my angle. That was a pun by the way.

 

[Rob Roy]

Your definition of coercion is not the argument, rather the use of it, is.

When Thomas Chong opened up his restaurant on the upper east side he had no expectation that Fat Tony would be stopping by every week demanding protection money, for absolutely nothing in return. Mr Chong was coerced into giving Mr Tony Giovanni money for nothing in exchanged. Mr Chong was being extorted.

When Thomas Chong opened up his restaurant on the upper east side he had full expectation that he'd have to pay sales tax and property taxes on the food he sold and the building he owned. Mr Chong was not coerced, he had a choice. The taxes he paid would go on to be used for things that would help him and his community, things like safe streets, clean water, healthy air, and for the most part protection from enemies, both foreign and domestic.

There is an implicit relationship between taxes and "what we get". That is not coercion. If you choose not to pay taxes, you are choosing not to participate in the society you are not contributing to. Pretty simple concept if you ask me.

So, you admit that when one party forcibly demands money from somebody it is extortion.

Yet when the demanding party is a gang which claims automatic authority over other people and calls itself government if they demand money forcibly, it magically becomes "not extortion".

So what you are really saying is government is exempt from the same moral code you and I fall under ?

Contracts to be valid are supposed to involve EXPLICIT agreements from the parties. If it is a unilateral agreement and implicit, that's just another way of saying, "because I have a gun and I say so".

What if you prefer not to use those so called services or what if you seek those services elsewhere should you be forced to pay ?

 

[Rob Roy]

No, he can't help himself.

Actually, I can't help myself to YOUR stuff, that would be stealing if I did it right?

Why is it not stealing if a group of "special authority people" do it ? What makes the same action stealing if you or I do it, but not stealing if other people do it ?

 

[zeddd]

No.

Being obtuse is not my angle. That was a pun by the way.

Yes but you diminished the humour by explaining the fact

 

[Illinois Enema Bandit]

a damn good start would be by making parents legally responsible for their child's actions in school as well as financially responsible,irregardless where the parents income comes from

another step in the right direction would be zero tolerance rules where students & teachers are safe from violent bullies & class disruptors

eliminating corrupt school boards ability to have access to the school systems funding in any way would have an immediate positive effect on dozens of failing school districts

 

[Rob Roy]

Yes but you diminished the humour by explaining the fact

 

[see4]

So, you admit that when one party forcibly demands money from somebody it is extortion.

Yet when the demanding party is a gang which claims automatic authority over other people and calls itself government if they demand money forcibly, it magically becomes "not extortion".

So what you are really saying is government is exempt from the same moral code you and I fall under ?

Contracts to be valid are supposed to involve EXPLICIT agreements from the parties. If it is a unilateral agreement and implicit, that's just another way of saying, "because I have a gun and I say so".

What if you prefer not to use those so called services or what if you seek those services elsewhere should you be forced to pay ?


View attachment 3770064

And round and round we go.

When your parents got you a social security number, you became part of an EXPLICIT contract with the government of the United States. And when you turned 18 and decided to continue being a citizen of the United States, you maintained that EXPLICIT contract with your government.

I realize you've managed to convince yourself of your ideas, and that's wonderful. But unfortunately you will never be able to convince others. I do sincerely wish you all the best, but your ideas of extortion and coercion are sorely misplaced.

 

[Illinois Enema Bandit]

And round and round we go.

When your parents got you a social security number, you became part of an EXPLICIT contract with the government of the United States. And when you turned 18 and decided to continue being a citizen of the United States, you maintained that EXPLICIT contract with your government.

I realize you've managed to convince yourself of your ideas, and that's wonderful. But unfortunately you will never be able to convince others. I do sincerely wish you all the best, but your ideas of extortion and coercion are sorely misplaced.

there's a growing trend of people using the whole " citizen of the world " business & its getting them beat down n shot,just watched some shit last night where a 1st yr law student pulled the " I don't have a contract " with the state business & got her ass arrested .

the entire premise makes no sense to me,we use services & our taxes pay for the services,or for the good of all,fairly cut n dried I'd say.

 

[zeddd]

Shit I just forgot what I was going to say, oh yes, no its gone