Is she damping off already??

[Nic Barlor]

Hi all!

I started these 2 Honey Cream (FF) from RQS last Thursday. I started them off in moist paper towels, and on Friday they had already cracked, so I put them in jiffy pellets I infused with water + fast roots...
They've been progressing everyday, evidently, but this girl with the seed husk on her can't really seem to get it off!

I can't tell if that is her stem damping off, and thus being the cause of lack of strength to push the seed husk off, or if the simple fact that the husk is still on tight is preventing her from doing any more growing.

It's my first time ever, and I really don't want to lose a single seed (just b/c of difficulty of obtaining more).
Can anyone help me diagnose this girl?
Her apparently stronger sister has already shed the husk, but there is still a thin inner layer of the seed she has to break through so her cotyledons will open up.

Am I going to have to perform surgery on her?? (on the left)
Sorry for the shitty picture... My camera can't focus so close, and if I get any further you wouldn't be able to see anything at all..



Thank you in advance!

P.S. In pic of her sister, you can tell she is really trying to shed that last thin layer. Should I intervene with one or both of these?

 

[Diabolical666]

Naa its ok..you can pull it off IF it easily comes off..if not ..leave it. Let nature do its thang...

 

[chemphlegm]

they are thirsty right now I think

depending on how important the genetics are I'll do surgery to help these along. I also kill some in the process. some come out of it on their own, some die. carefully hold the stem while picking at the seed shuck with a small pointy pointed point.good luck

 

[Morth]

Should be able to gently nudge the husk off if it's ready, guessing your just impatient like me that's not damping off. Trust me I have issues with drowning my sprouts and causing damping off that's not it lol :/

Damping off is usually caused be severely over saturated medium and the plant will pretty much freeze and show very little progress if any at all. Like if you saturate your rockwool daily instead of letting it dry out before you have roots coming out of the rockwool. For rockwool let it almost dry out after you put the cracked seeds in then once it starts to get dry use an eye dropper to water or that's what I do no more damped off baby's. Eye dropper was suggested by another member and it works great. I can love my baby's without over loving them lol

 

[Nic Barlor]

Naa its ok..you can pull it off IF it easily comes off..if not ..leave it. Let nature do its thang...

they are thirsty right now I think

depending on how important the genetics are I'll do surgery to help these along. I also kill some in the process. some come out of it on their own, some die. carefully hold the stem while picking at the seed shuck with a small pointy pointed point.good luck

Should be able to gently nudge the husk off if it's ready, guessing your just impatient like me that's not damping off. Trust me I have issues with drowning my sprouts and causing damping off that's not it lol :/lol

Well, her quicker sister managed to get most of the thin film off, but I got impatient and slightly maimed her a few hours ago when taking off the rest - just a nip off the tip of an already small cotyledon, but the other one is intact.
I just checked up on her, and she is already starting to open them up (slowly but surely).

As for the runt... No visible progress. She may be standing up straighter, I'm not sure. I haven't seen her stem change color or get thicker, and she's far too delicate for my hands.

I should probably pop the third Honey Cream bean, otherwise I'd probably be wasting my 9 square feet on a single plant, right?
Would it be an issue for one plant to be a full week younger than another?? Like, at flip time?


Edit: I also started using an eye dropper to moisten the jiffy plugs around the outer rim/edges, aside from misting the humidome every few hours.

 

[Bugeye]

Lose the dome and quit fucking with them. Domes will create perfect conditions for damping off with seedlings.

 

[greg nr]

Well, her quicker sister managed to get most of the thin film off, but I got impatient and slightly maimed her a few hours ago when taking off the rest - just a nip off the tip of an already small cotyledon, but the other one is intact.
I just checked up on her, and she is already starting to open them up (slowly but surely).

As for the runt... No visible progress. She may be standing up straighter, I'm not sure. I haven't seen her stem change color or get thicker, and she's far too delicate for my hands.

I should probably pop the third Honey Cream bean, otherwise I'd probably be wasting my 9 square feet on a single plant, right?
Would it be an issue for one plant to be a full week younger than another?? Like, at flip time?


Edit: I also started using an eye dropper to moisten the jiffy plugs around the outer rim/edges, aside from misting the humidome every few hours.

Yeah, I did that. I tore one of the leaves off a seedling trying to get the shell off. I call her three leave thelma. She has had a funky grow but I'm letting her go to see what happens.

 

[chemphlegm]

Well, her quicker sister managed to get most of the thin film off, but I got impatient and slightly maimed her a few hours ago when taking off the rest - just a nip off the tip of an already small cotyledon, but the other one is intact.
I just checked up on her, and she is already starting to open them up (slowly but surely).

As for the runt... No visible progress. She may be standing up straighter, I'm not sure. I haven't seen her stem change color or get thicker, and she's far too delicate for my hands.

I should probably pop the third Honey Cream bean, otherwise I'd probably be wasting my 9 square feet on a single plant, right?
Would it be an issue for one plant to be a full week younger than another?? Like, at flip time?


Edit: I also started using an eye dropper to moisten the jiffy plugs around the outer rim/edges, aside from misting the humidome every few hours.

you could clone a bunch of them for a full space experience too, then flip all at the same time, or stagger them for a perpetual harvest exp. dont spray seedlings for best results

 

[Nic Barlor]

Yeah, I did that. I tore one of the leaves off a seedling trying to get the shell off. I call her three leave thelma. She has had a funky grow but I'm letting her go to see what happens.

View attachment 3889632 View attachment 3889633

Ah yeah, I see what happened. I actually nipped off the tip of the embryonic leaf, not the true leaf. I hope mine doesn't grow all wonky! Hehe.
Although her root/stem is a little like a crazy straw at the beginning.

Her sister just doesn't seem like she's gonna go anywhere

you could clone a bunch of them for a full space experience too, then flip all at the same time, or stagger them for a perpetual harvest exp. dont spray seedlings for best results

What pruning technique would yield me the most clones later on? Obviously this lil' thang isn't ready for shit, but I was already thinking about topping at least once. Idk if I could handle manifold/mainlining my first ever plant - feel like it may become a handful.

One thing's for sure, I highly doubt one plant will supply my family and me with enough bud to last the 3-4 months that are going to follow this future harvest. So I need a way to flower some mo' bitches.

 

[Nic Barlor]

Just a quick update:

I went to check on them, and as expected runty hasn't progressed, but I picked up the quick one's pellet and saw like 1/4" of root popping out the bottom!!
I just transplanted her into a 1.5L plastic pot so she can build some root structure. I just watered her with about 9-12 mL of the same water I had been using to mist the sides of the humidome with.

I'm using 50-50 promix and I watered using an eyedropper, doing it just around the edges of the original jiffy pellet. I'm not sure whether you have to have damp soil for transplanted seedlings? I had to transplant her stem a little ways down because, as you can see, she has been a wonky stretcher.

 

[whitebb2727]

Lose the dome and quit fucking with them. Domes will create perfect conditions for damping off with seedlings.

This.

Leave them alone. Lose the dome.

Next time just plant the seed in soil like its designed to grow in.

For one it helps pull the seed shell off.

Another is with paper towels and the extra steps can damage root hairs. That damage allows a place for bacteria or pathogens to enter and cause damping off.

 

[whitebb2727]

Just a quick update:

I went to check on them, and as expected runty hasn't progressed, but I picked up the quick one's pellet and saw like 1/4" of root popping out the bottom!!
I just transplanted her into a 1.5L plastic pot so she can build some root structure. I just watered her with about 9-12 mL of the same water I had been using to mist the sides of the humidome with.

I'm using 50-50 promix and I watered using an eyedropper, doing it just around the edges of the original jiffy pellet. I'm not sure whether you have to have damp soil for transplanted seedlings? I had to transplant her stem a little ways down because, as you can see, she has been a wonky stretcher.

You don't want a lot of moisture.

Just leave them alone for a while. You are going to love them to death.

 

[chemphlegm]

ha! "love them to death" !

 

[Nic Barlor]

You don't want a lot of moisture.

Just leave them alone for a while. You are going to love them to death.

ha! "love them to death" !

Yeah, y'all are right, I was going to love them both to death.
I believe where I mainly went wrong was how deep I planted both seeds.... Fuckin' rookie mistake....

Well, this is my last lady standing for now. She just had her first 6 hour night of sleep and seems to be progressing - she doesn't seem to be dying at least!

The RH in tent, more specifically at soil surface, is ~55% atm, with temperature of ~30.5 Celsius/86-87 Fahrenheit.

I felt the the whole surface of the promix, as well as 1/2 or 1/3 of a pinky's way down (a knuckle or more) and it's really dry...
The soil is just baking (as in drying up), I don't think the lowest parts/middle parts of the soil are actually hotter than tent ambient temps, however.

She is probably still in shock from the transplant on Wednesday, isn't she?
Should I water the whole pot? Or let it continue to dry for another day? The seed popped last Friday.
Should I water with another Fast Roots feeding at recommended dose? This promix hasn't been in contact with the Fast Roots yet, just the jiffy plug.

I could really use y'all's help (^_^)"


This is a picture of her just now.

 

[whitebb2727]

Yeah, y'all are right, I was going to love them both to death.
I believe where I mainly went wrong was how deep I planted both seeds.... Fuckin' rookie mistake....

Well, this is my last lady standing for now. She just had her first 6 hour night of sleep and seems to be progressing - she doesn't seem to be dying at least!

The RH in tent, more specifically at soil surface, is ~55% atm, with temperature of ~30.5 Celsius/86-87 Fahrenheit.

I felt the the whole surface of the promix, as well as 1/2 or 1/3 of a pinky's way down (a knuckle or more) and it's really dry...
The soil is just baking (as in drying up), I don't think the lowest parts/middle parts of the soil are actually hotter than tent ambient temps, however.

She is probably still in shock from the transplant on Wednesday, isn't she?
Should I water the whole pot? Or let it continue to dry for another day? The seed popped last Friday.
Should I water with another Fast Roots feeding at recommended dose? This promix hasn't been in contact with the Fast Roots yet, just the jiffy plug.

I could really use y'all's help (^_^)"


This is a picture of her just now.
View attachment 3891582

Perfect. Let it be.

I poke a hole knuckle deep and plant them. Forget about it.

Easy peasy.

 

[Nic Barlor]

Perfect. Let it be.

I poke a hole knuckle deep and plant them. Forget about it.

Easy peasy.

Gotcha.

She is about 12" beneath a 34W and 46W CFL - when should I put up my 250W MH lamp?

 

[whitebb2727]

Gotcha.

She is about 12" beneath a 34W and 46W CFL - when should I put up my 250W MH lamp?

I pop seeds under all 432 watts of my t5. When they break ground they can harden off to the sun. It can harden off to your 250 watt.

I say switch when ever you want. You can also wait.for a couple sets of leaves.

I noticed popping under full power I get faster growth.

If you do switch raise the light up a little higher than normal and then slowly lower it.

 

[Nic Barlor]

I pop seeds under all 432 watts of my t5. When they break ground they can harden off to the sun. It can harden off to your 250 watt.

I say switch when ever you want. You can also wait.for a couple sets of leaves.

I noticed popping under full power I get faster growth.

If you do switch raise the light up a little higher than normal and then slowly lower it.

Well, I went ahead and swapped in the 250W MH. I would prefer that my single lady harden off as quick as she can.
The current distance between leaves and bulb (which is in a cooltube) is 80cm/31.5".
Tbh I used a 1m length of ducting to connect cooltube to exhaust, otherwise I probably would have set the distance at 60cm or so..
The book I have says that between 30-60cm I get 17,000 - 8,000 lumens from a 250W bulb, and from ~60 - 90cm, 8,000 to 5,000 lumens.

Growmedical420 says "
Lumens per square foot:

Minimum amount of lighting needed is around 2000 lumens per square foot.
(Two – 23 watt CFL’s, per square foot*)

Mid range is around 5000 lumens per square foot.
(Three – 23 watt CFL’s, per square foot*)

Optimal is 7000-7500, or higher, lumens per square foot.
(Five – 23 watt CFL’s, per square foot*)"

Even by these standards, at 80cm distance, I must be getting between 5500-7000 lumens, which is only 611 - 777 lumens/sq ft in my 9 sq ft tent.

I understand that a little extra distance between seedling and bulb is good to make sure I don't toast her, but at this point, am I not risking stretching her too much?
And from what I understand, under a 250W MH bulb, a hardened and leafy plant with established roots and all should be able to stay as close as 12" - 18" away from the bulb.

Do you reckon I'll have to water her sooner rather than later because of the light source swap?


Thank you for your patience

 

[whitebb2727]

Well, I went ahead and swapped in the 250W MH. I would prefer that my single lady harden off as quick as she can.
The current distance between leaves and bulb (which is in a cooltube) is 80cm/31.5".
Tbh I used a 1m length of ducting to connect cooltube to exhaust, otherwise I probably would have set the distance at 60cm or so..
The book I have says that between 30-60cm I get 17,000 - 8,000 lumens from a 250W bulb, and from ~60 - 90cm, 8,000 to 5,000 lumens.

Growmedical420 says "
Lumens per square foot:

Minimum amount of lighting needed is around 2000 lumens per square foot.
(Two – 23 watt CFL’s, per square foot*)

Mid range is around 5000 lumens per square foot.
(Three – 23 watt CFL’s, per square foot*)

Optimal is 7000-7500, or higher, lumens per square foot.
(Five – 23 watt CFL’s, per square foot*)"

Even by these standards, at 80cm distance, I must be getting between 5500-7000 lumens, which is only 611 - 777 lumens/sq ft in my 9 sq ft tent.

I understand that a little extra distance between seedling and bulb is good to make sure I don't toast her, but at this point, am I not risking stretching her too much?
And from what I understand, under a 250W MH bulb, a hardened and leafy plant with established roots and all should be able to stay as close as 12" - 18" away from the bulb.

Do you reckon I'll have to water her sooner rather than later because of the light source swap?


Thank you for your patience

If temps are not too high it won't need water for a while.

If it starts stretching then lower the light. If it stretches just put more dirt around them.

Don't worry. Just don't bend them back and forth. I've had them stretch and lay sideways on the dirt and stand back up as they get stronger.

Biggest thing is patience and good watering techniques.

Its hard to do and over water is a common mistake with new growers.

 

[Nic Barlor]

@whitebb2727

Temperature seems to have stabilized at 31.2 Celsius/88 Fahrenheit and 56% RH, and it's the dead of night, so I don't see it getting much cooler than that for the remainder of the summer (part of the reason I opted for the 250W for veg).

Do you figure she'll be due for a watering over the weekend?