Study: Hillary Clinton’s TV ads were almost entirely policy-free

[Wilderb]

As a citizen lobbyist, you know that sinking feeling that comes from knowing the corporate guys have millions to spread around, which is why no one ever took you seriously.

Ban campaign finance!

It's much worse now. In the first years, we had the ears of the lots of staff. They are really the ones to talk to. And they move around from office to office( often working for both R and D). Building good rep with them was key. As our state became worse, the reps started using their own people with no experience but a political agenda. It became harder and harder to even meet with staff.
Now they will kick you out of the capital building if you go into an office and ask to see a rep or staff.
Going in I had very strong feelings about what we as citizens needed to do to keep our government "representative".
I still feel that way but with the VERY jaded view of reality.
I agree ban campaign finance. Many many changes need to be made. Pretty fucked up electoral college as well.
Without a legitimate look at WHY this election went the way it did, we are doomed to repeat. Assuming we get to vote again that is.
WE

 

[Wilderb]

What do you think the rural voter wants that is different from what the city dweller wants?

For one, choices.
Don't we have anti trust laws? I don't have a choice in anything, electric, phone, gas, etc. We have one option. And we pay alot.
And education out here is a joke. Wages are shit.
There is a reason they stayed home.

 

[Fogdog]

clearly north dakotans want us to run a socialist democrat who promises free college to an agrarian, "self-reliant" state rather than a centrist democrat who fights for oil development and farm subsidies.

All Democratic Party leaders must fight those oil development and farm subsidies. The Democratic Party should abandon North Dakota to the Republicans. Same goes with car manufacturing in Michigan. Democrats must fight for free education, universal healthcare and a higher minimum wage. Also eliminate campaign funding from corporations. Individual states issues are irrelevant. Only liberal California Democrats have the answer. That's our path to re-taking Congress and the White House.

i guess

 

[Wilderb]

clearly north dakotans want us to run a socialist democrat who promises free college to an agrarian, "self-reliant" state rather than a centrist democrat who fights for oil development and farm subsidies.

Farm subsidies to not go where most people think they go. Most go to VERY wealthy people. The farm I grew up on was one of the biggest in the area at the time (about 80 milkers).
Now that would be considered a "hobby farm". Have to have at least 1500 to get the good "juice".

 

[Wilderb]

i guess

Sound very committed. And you wonder why they bolt?

 

[Fogdog]

For one, choices.
Don't we have anti trust laws? I don't have a choice in anything, electric, phone, gas, etc. We have one option. And we pay alot.
And education out here is a joke. Wages are shit.
There is a reason they stayed home.

Sounds like the first part, anti trust laws, electric, phone, etc is something rural voters have in common with city voters.

Education is a common complaint too.

So are wages.

Sound very committed. And you wonder why they bolt?

actually, I don't buy into the idea that rural voters are all that hot about campaign finance reform. I don't know this but I don't normally hear that complaint from the red neck side of my family. I buy into the idea that rural economy is the shits and rural people think the Democratic Party considers them an inconvenience because they have no intention of solving the decline of rural standards of living. It's true too.

 

[Wilderb]

I think we agree on most things. But I don't understand why it's bad to say we need better choices. TBH I have a hard time voting for someone who has been there before. I can't understand how, in a country with so many people, we would have to have ONE family run it more than once.
Sounds more like a kingdom to me.
Yes I voted for Bill. But do we really need to concentrate power THAT much?
Just my .02
WE

 

[Wilderb]

actually, I don't buy into the idea that rural voters are all that hot about campaign finance reform or . I buy into the idea that rural economy is the shits and rural people think the Democratic Party considers them an inconvenience because they have no intention of solving the decline of rural standards of living. It's true too.

Well you are welcome to believe what you want I guess. I live here.
We are NOT all stupid.

 

[Fogdog]

Well you are welcome to believe what you want I guess. I live here.

OK, so campaign finance reform is a hot topic over breakfast at the local diner? I'm not belittling you, I just don't often hear that complaint voiced by conservatives. By "conservative", I don't mean Trump and the reactionary right. I mean the average voter in rural districts. I continually hear about the decline of prosperity in rural areas, though. Am I wrong on this?

 

[ttystikk]

Well you are welcome to believe what you want I guess. I live here.

I'm very interested in hearing more from your perspective. Please continue.

 

[Wilderb]

OK, so campaign finance reform is a hot topic over breakfast at the local diner? I'm not belittling you, I just don't often hear that complaint voiced by conservatives. By "conservative", I don't mean Trump and the reactionary right. I mean the average voter in rural districts. I continually hear about the decline of prosperity in rural areas, though. Am I wrong on this?

That is EXACTLY the problem. You make the ASSUMPTION that everybody in a small town is a raging republican, hates gays, goes to church, and owns 50 guns.
Out of the towns surrounding me, all of them have voted majority Dem in the last 3 presidential elections. Except this one.
And Conservative is a catch all word that means nothing out here. Most people don't identify with one side or another. To conserve here means to take care of your land.
I wouldn't say there is an "average" city voter, why would you assume there is a "average" rural voter?

And yes, we have had much decline. Sure the wages are better in the city. But add up the costs of driving 50-100 miles a day. On our roads.

 

[ttystikk]

That is EXACTLY the problem. You make the ASSUMPTION that everybody in a small town is a raging republican, hates gays, goes to church, and owns 50 guns.
Out of the towns surrounding me, all of them have voted majority Dem in the last 3 presidential elections. Except this one.
And Conservative is a catch all word that means nothing out here. Most people don't identify with one side or another. To conserve here means to take care of your land.
I wouldn't say there is an "average" city voter, why would you assume there is a "average" rural voter?

And yes, we have had much decline. Sure the wages are better in the city. But add up the costs of driving 50-100 miles a day. On our roads.

Truth is that many city dwellers are just jealous of your lifestyle; elbow room, fresh air and the dude with the gun walking up to you is your hunting buddy instead of a thug.

 

[Wilderb]

Truth is that many city dwellers are just jealous of your lifestyle; elbow room, fresh air and the dude with the gun walking up to you is your hunting buddy instead of a thug.

I agree. I like people from a distance, lol. Grew up in the sticks, couldn't wait to get to the big city. Spent a few years knocking around various cities. Hated it. Sure everybody knows your business, but when the shit hits the fan, they pull together.
TBH, I guess I'm the thug around here. Well used to be, lol. Now I'm just a hermit who likes to garden.
WE

 

[ttystikk]

True.

Let's see if the party establishment learned a damned thing.

My money is on 'no'. Anyone want to take my bet?

Looks like no one wants my bet.

I'm shocked. Shocked, I tells ya!

 

[ttystikk]

That is EXACTLY the problem. You make the ASSUMPTION that everybody in a small town is a raging republican, hates gays, goes to church, and owns 50 guns.
Out of the towns surrounding me, all of them have voted majority Dem in the last 3 presidential elections. Except this one.
And Conservative is a catch all word that means nothing out here. Most people don't identify with one side or another. To conserve here means to take care of your land.
I wouldn't say there is an "average" city voter, why would you assume there is a "average" rural voter?

And yes, we have had much decline. Sure the wages are better in the city. But add up the costs of driving 50-100 miles a day. On our roads.

How did the Bernie Sanders candidacy play out in your area? Was he seen as a ray of hope or just another idiot?

 

[tangerinegreen555]

For one, choices.
Don't we have anti trust laws? I don't have a choice in anything, electric, phone, gas, etc. We have one option. And we pay alot.
And education out here is a joke. Wages are shit.
There is a reason they stayed home.

Maybe you don't really want some of those choices. They deregulated utilities here. There are 100 phone calls a week, people knocking on my door all the time to get me to change suppliers.

And every single fucking one is just like a credit card offer.

Low introductory rate, and BANG. You're paying double. Every time, all kinds of complaints.

Fuck all this deregulation. They let companies make more money. I've seen it personally. I've heard friends complain.

Their goal is to get more money, not save you money. Then they say, 'well, you had a choice'.

It's crooked as fuck.

 

[SneekyNinja]

How did the Bernie Sanders candidacy play out in your area? Was he seen as a ray of hope or just another idiot?

Don't you have to win the primary to be a candidate?

 

[ttystikk]

Maybe you don't really want some of those choices. They deregulated utilities here. There are 100 phone calls a week, people knocking on my door all the time to get me to change suppliers.

And every single fucking one is just like a credit card offer.

Low introductory rate, and BANG. You're paying double. Every time, all kinds of complaints.

Fuck all this deregulation. They let companies make more money. I've seen it personally. I've heard friends complain.

Their goal is to get more money, not save you money. Then they say, 'well, you had a choice'.

It's crooked as fuck.

Campaign finance reform. Then the companies will understand that their customers are also constituents who can and will be heard by their representatives without the intervening influence of corporate cash.

My bet is that customer service would rapidly improve.

 

[Wilderb]

How did the Bernie Sanders candidacy play out in your area? Was he seen as a ray of hope or just another idiot?

Very popular. He carried my state in the primary. Even some of the old Rs I know voted for him. I believe one of the main reasons she lost our state. First time since '84 we went red for president.

 

[Wilderb]

Don't you have to win the primary to be a candidate?

Yep, that's the attitude alright.