2,000 doctors say Bernie Sanders has the right approach to health care

UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
You should actually read what you are referencing. Or perhaps research a little more than doing a 2 second google search.

As of right now, there are roughly 760,000 active physicians practicing medicine in the United States. That number is about equal to all available beds in the United States. If all else were equal, that would mean there is roughly 1 doctor per available bed. We know this not to be true. So the question is then, how do we parse this information? I conclude that not all 760,000 physicians that are considered "active" are actually "active".
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@ginwilly might even be classified as an active physician.

and we all know to see him would be folly.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
Statistics show that there are roughly 750,000 beds. And statistics also show that there are roughly 750,000 physicians. That implies there is roughly 1 doctor per available bed. Common sense and real life experience tells us that is not true. Not even by a long shot.
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you're very right. most hospitals have nowhere near enough doctors to cover every bed in every hospital, hence why doctors do "rounds" and go "around" to patients, with aids and assistants called "nurses" on standby. your common sense and real life experience has been depicted in many TV shows and is close to reality according to my experiences in hospitals, as well as my parents, who have both worked in hospitals at points in their lives.

i don't usually even stay in a hospital bed when i go to the hospital.
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
who cares...

ok, what percentage is 2,000 from 700,000 (yes i know how to math ;) )

ridiculous..

oh wait, we're in politics. no wonder this thread is idiotic
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
"More than 2,000 physicians announced their support Thursday for a single-payer national health care system, unveiling a proposal drafted by doctors that appears to resonate with Bernie Sanders' call for "Medicare for All."

In an editorial and paper published in the American Journal of Public Health on Thursday, the doctors call out the "persistent shortcomings of the current health care system." They warn about the risks of continuing along the path laid out by the Affordable Care Act: "down this road, millions of Americans remain uninsured, underinsurance grows, costs rise, and inefficiency and the search for profits are abetted."

The future of health reform has been widely discussed in the presidential campaign, and for years health reform has sparked a raging and divisive political debate among politicians. The proposal, however, is endorsed by hundreds of physicians who have an inside view of the effects of the law on patients and medical care. It grew out of discussions in late 2014, when a small group of physicians began to assess the effects of health reform and found it coming up short.

"Those discussions led us to feel that we needed to put out in public, first of all, a clear statement that problems haven’t been solved," said David Himmelstein, an internist who practices in the South Bronx and a professor at the City University of New York School of Public Health at Hunter College.

Himmelstein and his colleagues call the right to medical care "a dream deferred," despite health reform.

About 12.7 million people are insured through the state and federal marketplaces created by the law, according to data released in February. But the Congressional Budget Office has estimated that about 28 million people will be uninsured in 2026.

On top of that, Himmelstein said he began to notice insured patients having more trouble paying for and accessing care, as their plans have been designed with narrower networks of physicians and growing deductibles -- issues that Himmelstein argues are ripple effects of the law. That's because the insurance policies sold through the marketplaces cover less than traditional employer plans did previously, "and we're seeing employers race to the bottom, once the Affordable Care Act says that's what coverage consists of," Himmelstein said.

Jeffrey Flier, the dean of Harvard Medical School, said the proposal is "massively backward," adding that the one thing it points out correctly is that health reform has been unable to deliver on its promise of affordable health care.

"I don't think it's a very meaningful contribution," Flier said. "It conjures up five-year planning by Stalinists."

The new single-payer proposal doesn't get into many specifics of how it would be funded, other than to estimate that the increase in government health care spending would be balanced by shrinking administrative costs and reductions in the cost of health care services and drugs. The doctors argue that a progressive tax, aimed at reducing income inequality would be an attractive way to fund the system.

"Frankly, there's so much fat in the U.S. health care system -- we're wasting so much money -- that we can afford to give everyone in this country everything that we know is useful without restriction," Himmelstein said.

Kenneth Thorpe, a professor of health policy at Emory University who has been critical of the feasibility and expense of Sanders' single-payer plan, said that the new proposal would cost more than the status quo. It overestimates the administrative savings that would be possible from a single-payer system, Thorpe argues.

"You can’t do what they’re talking about doing with the same amount of money that we’re currently spending," Thorpe said.

He said in addition to a switch to single-payer being disruptive, it's likely to be politically unpalatable. Thorpe's analysis has found that 71 percent of people with private insurance would pay more in a single-payer system than they currently do because taxes would outpace savings from premiums and other health care costs.

However, he noted that many of the ideas embedded in the proposal -- such as new payment models -- are already being experimented with today, under the current system.

Himmelstein said that today, hospitals must collect their operating budget "Band-Aid by Band-Aid and aspirin tablet by aspirin tablet, fighting with hundreds of different insurance plans." The physicians propose funding hospitals with a lump sum to cover all operating expenses, bypassing the large billing departments that today accrue hospital income piecemeal. But Thorpe pointed out similar ideas are already being tested in Maryland hospitals.

"We don’t need to completely blow the system up and disrupt it to generate the savings," Thorpe said."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/05/2000-doctors-say-bernie-sanders-has-the-right-approach-to-health-care/
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How many of those doctors have a right to delegate rights they do not possess ?
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
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Sometimes when I ask questions that are difficult to answer, it is convenient to focus on my repetition, while ignoring the message in the question.

This has been one of those times.


Here, let me give the answer that deflates your argument...

Exactly ZERO of those doctors have a right to forcibly impose their will on other people.
 
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see4

see4

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Sometimes when I ask questions that are difficult to answer, it is convenient to focus on my repetition, while ignoring the message in the question.

This has been one of those times.


Here, let me give the answer that deflates your argument...

Exactly ZERO of those doctors have a right to forcibly impose their will on other people.
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Why are you forcibly imposing your ideas on us? You have no right to do that.
 
MuyLocoNC

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
Yes, we are talking about active doctors who are in hospitals, not including general practice family care facilities. And the number is not 908k, it is 120k less than that.

Kaiser says there are 908,000 registered physicians in the United States, and more than 100,000 of them are inactive, and roughly 50,000 of them are unclassified, as in we don't know what they are doing. So really the number is around 760,000 physicians. Not 1,000,000. Your math is terrible. And you tiny penis is much larger than your tiny brain.
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Actually, ONLY you were talking about active doctors in hospitals and no one really gives a shit how you try to reframe the discussion. fdd said a million doctors, he didn't specify status or where they conduct business...nice try with the liberal two step. Retired doctors are still doctors, as are general practioners, scumbag abortionists,etc... Every one of their opinions is just as valid as the 2000 running their pieholes. Well over a million.

Clown shoes.
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
MuyLocoNC said:
Actually, ONLY you were talking about active doctors in hospitals and no one really gives a shit how you try to reframe the discussion. fdd said a million doctors, he didn't specify status or where they conduct business...nice try with the liberal two step. Retired doctors are still doctors, as are general practioners, scumbag abortionists,etc... Every one of their opinions is just as valid as the 2000 running their pieholes. Well over a million.

Clown shoes.
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lol. Ok. Your claim is there are over 1 million doctors in the United States. That means there are more doctors than there are available beds. Do you believe that statistic? If so, you're a fucking moron. But we already knew that. If you don't believe that statistic, please refute it. My claim is that there are roughly 760,000 available beds in the United States. Can you show me that there are more than 20,000,000 beds? I'm guessing your slow brain is not figuring out why I asked for that number. Well, let me explain. There are roughly 20 beds to 1 doctor in the United States, so the statistics claim. I tend to believe that figure as I've been to hospitals and doctors offices and my girlfriend is a nurse and agrees that 20:1 is a fairly accurate ratio.

So based on the information I provided, your claim of 1,000,000 active participating doctors means there are more than 20,000,000 available patient beds. Can you refute that?

So let's break this down for you simply:

1. My claim is that there are roughly 760,000 available patient beds in the United States. Do you dispute that claim? If so, please provide new evidence.
2. If you are not able to refute point 1, or simply agree to that claim, would you agree then that your claim is that there are more doctors than there are available beds?

Good luck kiddo.
 
tangerinegreen555

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
ky man said:
your 110 percent rite there is A VERRY BIG SHORTAGE of doctors in the usa that's why we have so many foren dr, here in the states and from my expernce the foren doctors are beter or have been beter to help me.most usa doctors onley care about the money and don't give a dame about humen life as they should..I got a dr, sued for he did surgery on me that should have never be dun and that's what other drs has told me and my lawer.there doing shit that they should not do just to get moor money where are helth care is fuck up so bad now and we can thank oboma for that.now are government is sending are drs to federal prison for the surgerys there doing to just make moor money.health care in this state is fucked up so bad now you cant even trust 90 percent of the drs here no moor.we can can thank obome for that.vote trump or the bitch will even make it worse.ky
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Get your illiterate finger the fuck out of my face you crazy bitch!
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