Gquebed
Well-Known Member
Because your country takes all the stuff from our country.
And its not enough. Gotta renegotiate NAFTA to get more. Lol
What is the PH of your distilled water?
- Thread starter Buba Blend
- Start date
And its not enough. Gotta renegotiate NAFTA to get more. Lol
HerbalRelief
Well-Known Member
Although not distilled, I feed my plants a unique water as I am on a well and had some contaminants. I am pretty sure my end product is "pure" water, it has a solid neutral PH of 7.0 that does not waver when exposed to the air.
I grow in hydro, but my soil plants exhibited the same toxicity with the untreated RO water.
So now, I start with RO water, then I ozonate it using a Venturi effect in a 50 gallon rain barrel. Then after allowing the ozone to dissipate I filter the final product through a KDF active carbon filter.
My RO starts out at 6.0 during the process with like 10ppm. After ozonation the water PH goes to 7.0 and will stay there for ever with 0 detectable PPM. I used to have to PH my water, I am finding now I simply add the "pure" water and then nutrients and my PH is 5.8-5.9. Perfect. The plants seem to love it too.
I grow in hydro, but my soil plants exhibited the same toxicity with the untreated RO water.
So now, I start with RO water, then I ozonate it using a Venturi effect in a 50 gallon rain barrel. Then after allowing the ozone to dissipate I filter the final product through a KDF active carbon filter.
My RO starts out at 6.0 during the process with like 10ppm. After ozonation the water PH goes to 7.0 and will stay there for ever with 0 detectable PPM. I used to have to PH my water, I am finding now I simply add the "pure" water and then nutrients and my PH is 5.8-5.9. Perfect. The plants seem to love it too.
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Were not taking your water, thats for sure.....
im4satori
Well-Known Member
To meNice! That was what I was hoping.
I think I'm going to have to practice making batches of soil with less Dolomite Lime to see if I can get the PH down some and see the results.
The 1st soil I made I added 1 1/2 cups of DL to 30 gallons of soil. 2nd batch I added 2 cups to 38 gallons of soil. The PH stayed at a steady PH 7 the entire grow with the 1st batch. Healthy plants at PH 7, want to see results from a PH of 6.5.
Just started a new batch of seeds and I'm going to experiment with two soils each having a different PH. A no-till and an amended soil combo with two different PH's.
I'm only doing this with two seedlings to see how they react.
I have a 10" clay pot with my amended soil in it that was just harvested, it has a ph of 7. I'm going to transplant it into a 3 gallon plastic pot undisturbed and surround it with new ffof that has a PH closer to 6.
Starting the seedlings in starter pots, then put the seedling in the center in a no-till fashion.
Going to do the same with a 10" clay pot of ffof that was just harvested and has a PH close to 6, I'll surround it in a 3 gallon plastic pot with my newest batch of amended soil that has a PH of 7.
I think in both cases the Dolomite in my soil will increase the PH of the ffof by the time I harvest, if they make it to harvest.
View attachment 4015178
a good experiment would be
3 plants all the same clones
3 pots of FFOF amended/cooked to change ph for each
one with ph 5.5 (add sulfur acid, peat or pine)
2nd with ph 6.5 (as is)
3rd with ph 7.5 (add lime)
Gquebed
Well-Known Member
Lol
Ahhh...but you are.
Under NAFTA Nestle can take a set amount of fresh water for free . And they do. And they bottle it and sell it.
If canada asks for payment at some point.. then under NAFTA water become a commodity and Nestle can take as much canadian fresh water as they want for a dirt cheap price.
We are fucked...because Nestle isnt the only company that is doing this.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
De-ionized is whats used in the greenhouse and lab soil testing for making test slurry's. There are several levels of distilled quality - they vary. Deionized is the lab standard for it's consistent purity. Same for chem labs.
Then again, why are we pHing soil? I mean well built soils, properly limed will self pH.....Even when using synthetic's (if the pH value is about a point out). I got a bit of problem with RO and organic feeds dropping the pH to the low 4's. This, in time will screw with the soils pH.....It's all things you learn over time. Even buffering the RO doesn't work well with some of these things.
To me. If your going to be doing this in soil, and for a long time. Break down and buy the Hannah soil specific meter. I know, I know, $400 hard won dollars. It's still the best out there, rugged and dependable. This is the industry standard for metering slurry's anyway. You should note that even on the page I give you. Hannah states "after preparation of a soil slurry with deionized water."
http://hannainst.com/hi99121-ph-meter-for-direct-soil-measurement.html
In the end. The last time I pH'ed my built soil, or even a synthetic soil run. Was like 7 years ago..... Now the farm, that's whole different story......Fields are tested fall and adjusted, some again in the spring before planting.
Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
Appreciate you stopping by Dr. Who.
im4satori tested his soil with distilled and had a PH of 6.5. If he used de-ionized would his results be different? My guess is the results would be the same or close to the same.
Not a scientist just guessing that the de-ionized is needed for other types of tests not the soil PH slurry test.
We both purchased distilled water and tested PH as soon as we opened it and the PH was 6. My two previous jugs of distilled also tested PH 6.
I started this thread to try to find out if distilled water with a PH of 6 would give the same results as distilled water with a PH of 7 in a slurry test. My feeling from the beginning has been that the answer is yes, the results would be the same, I just can't find distilled with a PH of 7 to compare.
If I buy de-ionized water would you expect it to have a PH of 7 if tested the moment it is opened?
Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
That would be a good test.
Would the plan be to feed all of them the same until problems arose? I might be inclined to make changes to cal/mag and amendments added to each group to try to get the plant to reach full potential.
If the goal is to have all 3 be at their healthiest potential at harvest I would think they would have to be fed differently.
After doing more testing how are you feeling about your probe now. I recall you felt it was reading low. Is it still reading low?
Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
Your question: Why are we PHing soil?
I made my 1st amended soil showed the slurry tests to others and was told my PH may be to high. It may be IDK. My plants were healthy in it. Two plants at 10 1/2 weeks of flowering still are healthy and happy with about 1 week left till harvest. All of the plants are doing fine I just refer to them because they are still green with all of their leaves with the exception of the 1st set of single blade leaves. Nothing has been added throughout the grow except cal/mag and Epsom salt to one plant, the other was treated the same with the exception of also getting 2 TBL of blood meal at 4 weeks into flowering. So I like my soil but want to experiment with adding less lime or do something to get a color of the slurry test somewhere in the middle of the two colors shown, just to experiment.
The two on the left are new ffof slurry test samples. The two on the right are my used then amended ffof soil tests. Among other things 1 1/2 cups of dolomite was added to about 30 gallons of soil.
EDIT: I forgot they all also received 2 TBL of gypsum at about 3 weeks into flowering, they are in 3 gallon pots.
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im4satori
Well-Known Member
my meter still reads considerable lower than my slurry test
my meter must be off
id like to feed them all the same to view the differences only in ph with as little other differences than possible
and also log the ph weekly to see what changes occur in the ph over time
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im4satori
Well-Known Member
my first soil build I ended up with a low ph for the first couple weeks into growth (5.5)
added some lime but it took some time to raise the ph,
notice some def/lockout that I resolved with a couple foliar feeds unitl the lime brought the ph up
these plants ended up yielding less than previous grow
grow with normal ph yield 1 lb 12 oz per 1000 watt
grow with lower starting ph yielded 1lb 10 +/- oz per 1000 watt light
so I make an assumption that anything over ph 6.0 is fine
but I have yet to personally have the ph run slightly high, maybe 7.5 to 8.0 and see how that affets nute uptake
added some lime but it took some time to raise the ph,
notice some def/lockout that I resolved with a couple foliar feeds unitl the lime brought the ph up
these plants ended up yielding less than previous grow
grow with normal ph yield 1 lb 12 oz per 1000 watt
grow with lower starting ph yielded 1lb 10 +/- oz per 1000 watt light
so I make an assumption that anything over ph 6.0 is fine
but I have yet to personally have the ph run slightly high, maybe 7.5 to 8.0 and see how that affets nute uptake
Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
I just did a side by side with ffof and my amended soil that went until 3 weeks into flowering being fed nothing but RO water. The ffof plants all showed a calcium deficiency before the plants in my soil.
The grow just ending, the new ffof PH stayed the same throughout the grow, the yellow slurry test above. The amended soil also stayed the same the entire grow the green vial above.
You haven't tried dolomite lime yet have you?
I found it changes the PH of the used ffof in less than 10 days when cooking.
I like how quickly it works and how stable it remained though the grow. I do plan to buy Oyster flower and try it also on future mixes.
im4satori
Well-Known Member
so which soil out performed?
what did you do for extra calcium in the FFOF?
yes I found the same thing to be true about the dolomite lime... that's what I used to correct my ph imbalance
I took about 10 days to start working and the oyster shell takes a lot longer to work
but my oyster shell isn't the flour..ugh wish it was... I bought the chunky stuff
in the future im going to use 50/50 dolomite/oyster shell and im going to plan for a total of 1.5 cups per cubic ft combined
when building new soil
Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
Which soil out performed is a long story that is going to take time to figure out. I'm going to do the same side by side with a newly amended soil that has some changes from the 1st mix. Most notably Epson salt was added last time and not this time. I added 1 1/2 cups of gypsum to 5 cu ft this time, none was used last time.
This grow I allowed the calcium deficiency to show up before feeding cal mag. I did find that 100 ppms of cal mag +, about 12 drops in 1/3 gallon of RO stopped the calcium deficiency within 2 days, the fan leaves of untreated plants were destroyed quickly. I then applied cal mag each watering from that point on slowly lowering it to 50 ppms, about 6 dops in 1/3 gal of RO.
The grow just starting I will be feeding the cal mag + much sooner trying to avoid any deficiencies.
On the dolomite, I added 2 cups to 5 cu ft of used ffof and feel I may even use less in future mixes of used ffof. I'll be curious what your PH is with 1.5 cups added to 1 cu ft and how it performs.
I also need to figure out how to amend the soil from this grow when I recycle it again. I won't be adding anymore lime to it yet and see how stable the PH stays.
Some of the 3 gallon pots that are just being harvested are going to be no-till this grow. Some plants will be in new ffof and some will be my 2nd recycled soil mix.
I'll be adding some 5 gallon pots this grow too.
im4satori
Well-Known Member
they way im figuring it is like this
if the ph of the soil is already in range I wont add any lime, but instead add lots of gypsum(doesn't affect ph) to get calcium and not add lime that might eventually push my ph up too high
but when I recycled the soil I added peat and pine park so I had to add some lime to offset the acidity from the peat and pine bark
so I added a proportional amount of lime (oyster shell and only enough to offset the peat...) and still a good bit of gypsum
had I not added the additional peat and pine bark I would have only used the gypsum and not added any lime
im4satori
Well-Known Member
most of my pots (cooking) the ph has been on the rise over the past few days
likely the added tea helped speed things up
most of the pots read between 6.0 and 6.5 but a couple still 5.5 but those pots are more damp so the ph might climb as they dry out a bit more
im going to dump the probe..it seems to be super sensitive to moisture content
if the soil is dry itll give you closer to a true reading but if its even a little damp it throws very low readings
likely the added tea helped speed things up
most of the pots read between 6.0 and 6.5 but a couple still 5.5 but those pots are more damp so the ph might climb as they dry out a bit more
im going to dump the probe..it seems to be super sensitive to moisture content
if the soil is dry itll give you closer to a true reading but if its even a little damp it throws very low readings
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Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
When running the yew farm. EVERY slurry test was done with deionized! Mandatory by corporate order.
As far as differing much, depends on the distilled. Like I said there are different grades of distilled. It's never listed on the jug. I might be inclined to think you may get inconsistency's in the water by location and store (if differing sources).
Hannah always says to use deionized with it's lab grade commercial soil meters. It's what we used in class too (deionized)....
As for your next post: If you've got good green plants right to the end. Why change that? I understand learning to a point of comparison but, are you attempting to increase potency?.
I gotta ask. How big a pot are you putting 2 TBL high N bat poo into at 4 weeks of bloom? You should consider a vegging soil and a bloom specific soil. Up pot into the bloom soil and 8-10 days to set roots and flip them. Use a slower release N - Like Comfrey or stinging nettles, along with a faster release for the stretch (or first 3 weeks).... I'm slightly concerned about the N content that late...
You should remember that Dolo is very high in Mg (comparatively). You don't need that much Mg. Your likely getting plenty from your other sources. Does work nicely as a re-amending agent....
Dolo also tends to make your soil clumpy and can harden up faster too. Same thing it does for concrete -
Just adding 2 cents here
^^^I LIKE THIS^^^ Member what I said about Dolo and Mg.?
I see what your doing Buba. I'll step back and let you do the learning......Still, I feel compelled to say something sometimes...... Just consider it my 2 cents....
Another note is that I get almost no variance in my testing soil direct or by slurry with that 99121 Hannah.....water, wait a period of time, meter. In fields I simply carry a tank of water on a UTV and hit spots around the field. Go back to the first spot and meter out the field by hitting the wet spots in order. Generally it's multiple fields, I'll do them all and then restart at the first spot.
If your attempting to increase THC or CBD......There are mineral supplementation methods for that. Cpl of them have been known for years - Mel Frank listed one in a book a long time ago. It works but, now we know much more about how to do it.....To get one or the other, along with both.
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Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
I'm definitely going through a lot of changes lately. Mixing my 1st and 2nd batch of amended soil and attempting a no-till style grow in 3 gallon pots with seedlings just popping in starter pots now, I'm going to cut the center hole out of the 3 gallon pot just harvested and add the seedlings with a small amount of worm castings and perlite. Never tried that before. I'll also be growing a batch in my 2nd soil mix and a 3rd group in new ffof. I'm starting the no-till 1st and will attempt to FIM those. Two weeks later I'll start the plants in the amended soil and the ffof and will not top those. Not sure how it will go but that is the plan for now. I'll also be getting some 5 gallon pots. Chaos may ensue.When running the yew farm. EVERY slurry test was done with deionized! Mandatory by corporate order.
As far as differing much, depends on the distilled. Like I said there are different grades of distilled. It's never listed on the jug. I might be inclined to think you may get inconsistency's in the water by location and store (if differing sources).
Hannah always says to use deionized with it's lab grade commercial soil meters. It's what we used in class too (deionized)....
As for your next post: If you've got good green plants right to the end. Why change that? I understand learning to a point of comparison but, are you attempting to increase potency?.
I gotta ask. How big a pot are you putting 2 TBL high N bat poo into at 4 weeks of bloom? You should consider a vegging soil and a bloom specific soil. Up pot into the bloom soil and 8-10 days to set roots and flip them. Use a slower release N - Like Comfrey or stinging nettles, along with a faster release for the stretch (or first 3 weeks).... I'm slightly concerned about the N content that late...
You should remember that Dolo is very high in Mg (comparatively). You don't need that much Mg. Your likely getting plenty from your other sources. Does work nicely as a re-amending agent....
Dolo also tends to make your soil clumpy and can harden up faster too. Same thing it does for concrete -
Just adding 2 cents here
^^^I LIKE THIS^^^ Member what I said about Dolo and Mg.?
I see what your doing Buba. I'll step back and let do the learning......Still, I feel compelled to say something sometimes...... Just consider it my 2 cents....
Another note is that I get almost no variance in my testing soil direct or by slurry with that 99121 Hannah.....water, wait a period of time, meter. In fields I simply carry a tank of water on a UTV and hit spots around the field. Go back to the first spot and meter out the field by hitting the wet spots in order. Generally it's multiple fields, I'll do them all and then restart at the first spot.
If your attempting to increase THC or CBD......There are mineral supplementation methods for that. Cpl of them have been known for years - Mel Frank listed one in a book a long time ago. It works but, now we know much more about how to do it.....To get one or the other, along with both.
It was Blood Meal that I applied at 3 or 4 weeks into flowering. 2 TBL in 3 gallons of my amended soil.
I was pushing the limits of under watering and giving the plants nothing but RO water till about 3 weeks into flowering to see what deficiencies showed up. Some showed a calcium deficiency especially the ones in the ffof. 3 had the beginning of what appeared to be an N deficiency in the lowest set of leaves.
My thinking at the time was that I had at least 6 or 7 more week to go till harvest and any N should be used up by then and it would carry them through, don't know if it was a good idea or not.
The rest did not get the blood meal.
im4satori
Well-Known Member
I find it works wel (in my 20 gallon pots) l to top dress about 4oz high N guano 1 cup alfalfa meal followed by tea at the start of 12/12 or just before
it seems to be quick and alfalfa has some P and K in it comparatively
plus the tricontinol in the alfalfa is suppose to help stacking buds
if I end up low in N in middle/late bloom I use hydrolyzed fish, again its got some P also, maybe 1 oz per gallon
ive not yet used blood meal in anything
I just added a good portion of feather meal for the first time in my last recycle so I may not need to use the guano in the future but I still will use the alfalfa and hydro fish
it seems to be quick and alfalfa has some P and K in it comparatively
plus the tricontinol in the alfalfa is suppose to help stacking buds
if I end up low in N in middle/late bloom I use hydrolyzed fish, again its got some P also, maybe 1 oz per gallon
ive not yet used blood meal in anything
I just added a good portion of feather meal for the first time in my last recycle so I may not need to use the guano in the future but I still will use the alfalfa and hydro fish
Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
@Dr. Who said "I see what your doing Buba. I'll step back and let you do the learning......Still, I feel compelled to say something sometimes...... Just consider it my 2 cents...."
I'll take all your spare change. I've grown for over 20 years and only spoke to growers for about the last 3 years. All of my knowledge came from books and the school of hard knocks, I have to do it and find out the hard way whether the results are good or bad. Old habits are hard to break.
I'll take all your spare change. I've grown for over 20 years and only spoke to growers for about the last 3 years. All of my knowledge came from books and the school of hard knocks, I have to do it and find out the hard way whether the results are good or bad. Old habits are hard to break.