dagwood45431
Well-Known Member
You don't, that's for sure.
Progressive Party **Official Thread**
- Thread starter schuylaar
- Start date
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
http://therealnews.com/t2/story:20462:An-Idea-Starved-Democratic-Party-Tries-to-Recycle-Joe-Biden
The Democrats will do ANYTHING to kowtow to their elite donor class and alienate the Left.
Excerpt;
"During an October 2017 rally in Alabama for Democratic Senate Candidate Doug Jones, Biden took a shot at Bernie Sanders; “Guys, the wealthy are as patriotic as the poor. I know Bernie doesn’t like me saying that, but they are."
This rhetoric is signaling to the Democratic Party's wealthy donors that Biden will defend their authority over the party. Bernie Sanders popular criticisms toward the wealthy for subverting democracy by pouring millions of dollars into the political system and broadening income and wealth inequality through corporate monopolization and anti-labor union measures present a major problem for party elites. These insiders are desperate to find a voice to stave off Sanders' rhetoric and popularity, in favor of a Democrat who would rather partner with their power instead of challenging it on behalf of working people."
The Democrats will do ANYTHING to kowtow to their elite donor class and alienate the Left.
Excerpt;
"During an October 2017 rally in Alabama for Democratic Senate Candidate Doug Jones, Biden took a shot at Bernie Sanders; “Guys, the wealthy are as patriotic as the poor. I know Bernie doesn’t like me saying that, but they are."
This rhetoric is signaling to the Democratic Party's wealthy donors that Biden will defend their authority over the party. Bernie Sanders popular criticisms toward the wealthy for subverting democracy by pouring millions of dollars into the political system and broadening income and wealth inequality through corporate monopolization and anti-labor union measures present a major problem for party elites. These insiders are desperate to find a voice to stave off Sanders' rhetoric and popularity, in favor of a Democrat who would rather partner with their power instead of challenging it on behalf of working people."
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I'm beginning to work out the differences between you and Pad
@ttystikk suffers from histrionic personality disorder
@Padawanbater2 suffers from Messiah complex.
@schuylaar is just a bigoted cracker.
These labels will make it easier to keep you all separate in my sneering responses.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Textbook example of the dishonesty you display; I asked you to clarify what you meant by "suppress racists" & I told you I agreed with you that educating children DOES work...;
Your tactic of "suppressing racists" has proven to yeild opposite results. It simply doesn't work. Racists become even more emboldened and less receptive to logic or reason. You cite Germany as an example, but what Germany defines as "suppressing racism" is not what you do. You attack people and claim what you do is the same thing Germany does. What you do is verbally abuse people to make yourself feel better and to get approval from your ingroup. If you actually wanted to enact the same laws Germany has in regards to racist rhetoric, you would talk to your congressman and work to convince him to support it, you wouldn't whine on an internet forum..
The only way the issue of racism has been successfully defeated is through nonviolent political revolutions. Gandhi in India and MLK in the US. MLK and the civil rights movement are a particularly interesting case since we can contrast his peaceful movement with Malcolm X's not so peaceful movement during the same time period.
It's clear, the only way forward is through peaceful means. Calling someone names simply doesn't work in reducing or eliminating racism; it makes racism worse. The only reason you would continue to move forward with this tactic after having been shown through academic studies and actual intellectual arguments from academics working in the field is to stroke your own bruised ego. If you know it doesn't work, and you still choose to do it anyway, you're a scumbag who doesn't care if you're also responsible for perpetuating the same racism you claim to oppose.
Not being a dick to racists does not mean you approve of their beliefs
tangerinegreen555
Well-Known Member
Alienate the Left?
LO fucking L.
What would you call what Trump is doing?
Patting the left on the head like a good dog?
You have no dreaming idea who your enemy even is.
(hint-it's the party nominating all the nice judges, shitting all over the environment and taking away as many people's health insurance as possible, not to mention cutting the highest tax rate in half to help out the rich and big business. Kinda like they've been doing since the
early 1900's.)
Blame the Democrats, though.
Not enough noise around here.
tangerinegreen555
Well-Known Member
Well shit, instead of just enabling them, why not slip them a $50. for dinner.
dagwood45431
Well-Known Member
Or blow them.
tangerinegreen555
Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Without the corporate left, we wouldn't have Trump
Maybe try to see the bigger picture
Trump won because Democrats who've been in office haven't represented the interests of their constituents
Maybe Democrats who've been put in office should represent their constituents interests.. If they do, it might prevent demagogues like Trump from winning election
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Huh?
I said you were wrong to your whole post, not one particular detail. You are the one who isolated the bit about educating children as the point of my denial of your entire post. No, your entire post is wrong. I said your entire post was wrong.
That bit about bruised egos. Did I bruise your fragile white ego? No sympathy.
Your post is truly impenetrable. I can't really respond to it other than to say you need to put a paper bag over your head and breathe ten or twelve times or you'll pass out from hyperventilation.
So, let me explain what I meant about using Germany as a guide regarding what works to reduce racism over time. They banned the exhibit of Nazi symbols, censored anti-Semitic and racist hate speech and have broad laws regarding what can and cannot be said in public. They have school curriculum in which every school kid must learn the details of the holocaust and Nazi actions against not only Jews but all the people they targeted as sub-human. Parents in Western Germany have already gone through the same curriculum and they reinforce what is taught in school. The combination is quite effective.
As far as how the public views or treats right wing protests, it's much the same as in the US. Except they have more experience in how to deal with it and inject quite a bit more humor into the counter protests. They don't take it as seriously as we do and they make the neoNazis out to be fools. We'll see if they can continue to take them so lightly with the recent advent of xenophobia.
As far as what I do to racists that show up here, I mean really. Do you think MarWan is worse for his abuse? He was an antisemitic asshole before he came here and remains one.
Now, about your Messiah complex. You should reconsider naming martyrs as people to aspire to be like. First, you aren't MLK or Gandhi, neither in intelligence or disposition. Second, you completely miss that they did not hold back in their criticism of their opposition. They weren't crude like UB is but they were every bit as consistent in their opposition.
I also don't believe that you permanently changed the life of a racist by sitting down and talking with them. It's more my guess they eventually agreed so they could get up and take a pee.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Sure, looking at the past can be useful, but I don’t know how relevant social issues from 100+ years ago are to today’s issues. I mean, you nearly stroked out when I brought up the 2008 election with you telling me how useless it was to go that far back and contrast it with the 2016 election.
But anyway, we seem to have clarified a few things. We both agree that educating children to be tolerant, and coming down hard on hate crimes are both important policies. We disagree on how to confront racist individuals, with me siding with the professionals on using reason and logic, and you using bravado and calling them names.
Just curious though, do you employ this same tactic if you’re out and about and you happen to stumble upon a skinhead? Do you get up in his mug and tell him he’s a stupid fat racist cuck loser? If so, can you videotape that next time and share it with the forum?
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Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Not being a dick to racists doesn't enable them
Explain how the tactic you and Fogdog choose to employ reduces racism. How does calling someone a "fat, racist, lonely, cuck" defeat or reduce racism?
SneekyNinja
Well-Known Member
You shouldn't talk about tty like that, especially with your liking of duct tape anal rape.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
You mixed up the difference between a study that was statistically valid only for a given election with another statistically valid study that showed trends over the years and contained a unique event that allows us to see how a society changes due to policy changes. American history doesn't contain the sharp change in policies reflected in Germany during the years between 1930 and 1945. You didn't understand this yet felt entitled to comment, no matter how wrong you were. Suggest you learn how to read with a critical eye rather than filter what you read through a biased eye.
As in the two other studies that you didn't understand, you completely missed the point of the Stanford study that you quoted. The Stanford article focused on white people's feelz and how to keep them comfortable and avoid their hot buttons. It was useful to an HR person or a middle level manager who needed to coach a shithead racist to change behavior in constrained settings and still keep them productive. It would be useful to a parent at a teacher's conference when dealing with a bigoted teacher. It had nothing to do with changing social attitudes on a large scale. You spent your life as a jock and learned a lot about self confidence, which is evident when you talk so knowingly about reports that you don't understand. Your confidence in this case is only justified in your ignorance.
I'll just return to the central idea that is backed up by quite a bit of information. Information that you've never read and you shouldn't bother because you already have made up your mind. Also as demonstrated in our conversation here, you won't understand it anyway. The central idea is that adults don't change their point of view in terms of racial, xenophobic or other bigoted belief. Conversion is very rare and precipitated by outside pressure not by conversation.
It doesn't matter what I say to them, they aren't going to change. Here, I insult them so they will go away or at least demean them. In public, I ignore them unless they are directing their hate on another and then, yes, I have said something. I made them uncomfortable and they left. Finally, I showed up at a counter-demonstration when skinheads came to Portland to proclaim their white pride. We outnumbered the fuckers four to one and they stayed behind police protection. But we shouted the fuckers down and showed them they weren't welcome here. I don't want people marching with the Nazi flag in my city. I don't want the children to see them marching in my streets unopposed. I don't want black and Hispanic people to have to face them without showing my solidarity with them.Just curious though, do you employ this same tactic if you’re out and about and you happen to stumble upon a skinhead? Do you get up in his mug and tell him he’s a stupid fat racist cuck loser? If so, can you videotape that next time and share it with forum?
tangerinegreen555
Well-Known Member
Not opposing them absolutely enables them.
It's the Trump strategy. You and Trump apparently have that in common.
"Many sides, many sides"
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
You can oppose them without being a dick
Trump doesn't oppose them. He supports them
tangerinegreen555
Well-Known Member
Yeah, take one to a movie.
Most people would say, 'fuck racism'.
You're saying, 'don't be a dick'.
Maybe try to see the bigger picture.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
You can disagree with racism and still condemn racists while being respectful to them while they hold abhorrent beliefs
Look at Louis Theroux's documentary about scientology, look at his entire career. He very clearly disagrees with the people he interviews, he interviews them in a cordial way to get them to open up honestly about their beliefs where other interviewers have come at the situation hostile and they get shut down immediately. Being respectful doesn't mean you agree with their opinions, it means you're smart enough to ask them questions about their belief because you actually give a damn to get them to open up and expose details they otherwise wouldn't have.
When has verbally abusing racists like your side does ever worked to stifle, limit, or eliminate racism? Can you cite a single example or do you just get off on it since it makes you feel good inside?
SneekyNinja
Well-Known Member
Blah blah blah...
Fuck racists, they need to be made realize noone likes them or their shit before they will reevaluate.