AN sensi a/b vs AN grow/bloom/micro

[kristoffolese]

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/flushing-is-a-bad-practice-based-on-flawed-science.64789/

Read this entire thing then report back. I used to think the same thing.

There are reasons to flush with certainty mediums but doing it at the end of the plants maturity is just nonsense.

Nowhere in the history of agriculture has anyone ever flushed anything, herbs, fruit, spices, tobacco....ANYTHING! Lol why would cannabis be any different?

After reading all of that I went on my own learning expedition to prove it wrong. After that and talking with a botanist about it, I'm convinced you only have to flush if you overfeed and hurt the roots.

The plant isn't retarded... it will purposely move nutrients from the leaves to the bud late in flowering, this alone crushes the theory of harvest flushing if you think about it.

I even argued high times rates the entries on "the flush" but honestly now I know I could get a 10/10 without flushing and just a proper dry and cure like all herbs need to maintain proper smells and rid of chlorofil.

will def read the link... but who told u nobody has ever flushed in the history of agro? I can tell u point blank that is false. Hydro tomato growers, right here in WA, flush their plants before harvest. Imo, one of the reasons its done with cannabis, is because we truly, HONESTLY, have no idea whats in most “cannabis specific” feed lines. They cop out & say its their “proprietary formula”. Tomato farmers wouldnt stand for that shit - wheat farm wouldnt, NO real agricultural farmer would tolerate that nonsense- theyd laugh in the sales rep’s face. They feed their crops EXACTLY what they need. And youre eating these agricultural products- you arent smoking them. It does make a difference. You mentioned tobacco farmers, which is an excellent comparison, and there ARE tobacco farmers that “flush”. They cut fertilizer & give only pure water - just like we do. A smoked product is different than a food product.
Also, Due to the fact that multiple cannabis supplements/nutes have been banned AFTER being used unregulated for years, it stands to US, the weed grower, to ensure the quality/purity of what we produce. “Big cannabis” has repeatedly tossed cancerous BS into their products. The other problem, is that the average grower really has no idea what the exact nutritional requirements are for what theyre growing. Most over feed, then flush the excess. And due to how the nutes are mixed, giving enuf of one nutrient, can mean giving too much of another. It seems its in fashion to jump from strain to strain, mastering none of them.
Lastly, Id wager that most of us have smoked weed with that horrible fertilizer taste, at least once in our lives. Even those who DO have their strain’s nutritional requirements dialed in, often flush, just to be extra careful to avoid this. Id put myself in the this category. Thanks for the link!

 

[kristoffolese]

Right here is where you are correct but need to look again, those "salts" you are referring to can't be taken up by the plant and put into the bud, only movable forms of NPK can be moved around through the stock and into the leaves and buds.

That being said the only salts left behind will be in your roots, not in the bud themselves so flushing to improve the taste of the "bud" is useless. If there's a lot of buildup in the root zone the roots can be harmed which will actually result in a lack of uptake and deficiencies from what I read. This is over feeding and the only reason to flush, if you burn your plants you won't be able to flush out damaged tissue

Imagine if people starved animals before butchering them cause they feared nutrients might make the taste bad.

Wouldn't have very good beef going around at all now would we?

You’re absolutely correct in that the salts left behind cant be uptaken by the plant. My insistence that they need to be flushed concerns their ability to affect the absorption of various nutes - which in itself can cause overfeeding. U get a mag lockout, and start dumping more and more epsom or cal mag into ur water, which only makes things worse. I will absolutely admit that my “always flush” policy is grounded in a fare bit of paranoia, as Iv had cases of ruined/compromised taste in the past. Mendo Avalanche - which I love and swear by- says it can be used up to harvest, yet I swear it screws up the taste if u do. I flush the last 10 days at least (in soil), stopping the mendo Avalanche at flush, and it stopped coming out in the taste. I apologize if Im all over the place... can be hard for me to be clear in written msgs, when Im ripped, sorry lol

 

[kristoffolese]

Right here is where you are correct but need to look again, those "salts" you are referring to can't be taken up by the plant and put into the bud, only movable forms of NPK can be moved around through the stock and into the leaves and buds.

That being said the only salts left behind will be in your roots, not in the bud themselves so flushing to improve the taste of the "bud" is useless. If there's a lot of buildup in the root zone the roots can be harmed which will actually result in a lack of uptake and deficiencies from what I read. This is over feeding and the only reason to flush, if you burn your plants you won't be able to flush out damaged tissue

Imagine if people starved animals before butchering them cause they feared nutrients might make the taste bad.

Wouldn't have very good beef going around at all now would we?

As far as starving animals before slaughter... no, we definitely dont do that. My gramps worked for Armours meat packing & slaughter house for 40 years, then retired & had his own “gut wagon”, a mobile slaughter house that did slaughtering for smaller farms.
While they def dont withhold feed, they DO try to “flush” the meat of any medicines, prophylactic antibiotics, hormones, etc. In fact, a scented hood is placed over their heads before entering the slaughter house/truck, and animals are butchered in isolation, one at a time. This is to prevent “terror hormones” from being released into the meat, which will come out in the taste. An animal CANT be legally slaughtered if it was being given medication within a certain number of days of slaughter. Even vitamins are halted in the final days/weeks of the animal’s life. Personally, the only weed I wont flush, is weed grown in living soil, straight true organic (not concentrated “sort of mostly organic”, like General Organics & the rest). Vegamatrix is one I will agree doesnt need flushing... but be careful, because many additives can affect and spoil taste. Great convo, 907 cannabis! I like intelligent conversation & people who are respectful in disagreement You check both boxes. Been growing for 22 years, and yet, even after all these years, I still learn new things every month And “unlearn” things, as well lol

 

[907cannabis]

Ok long post here we go ... so "flushing" is different than lowering ppms imo, flushing is using an ungodly amount of water, tapering food is a normal practice id say.

All your points are great, and I like the debate I really do but imo any hydro farmer flushing their tomatoes for "taste" is fucking high, and I'd like to see some literature on tobacco flushing please I wasn't aware of that.

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/flushing-article.22852/

This is a good article with information on why people flush or should flush, read it all its a great read and isn't bias at all but I personally still believe people are overfeeding if they need to flush.

With all this information on the table I'm confused on a few things, he argues very well that the senescence process causes nutrients to be taken up by lower fan leaves and into the bud and that flushing the medium speeds the process but to me this just says there will be more nutrients in the bud and not less. The more the plant moves it's reserves from the leaves to the bud more of EVERY movable nutrient gets transferred to the bud, so where is the logic there?

Another thing is while we're on the basic subject of detoxifying, modern science dismisses the idea that we can "detox" our bodies with a simple fast diet change/pill or drinking lots of lemon enhanced water lol. While plants are much different than us they are much the same in that aspect I believe.

But what if it's all something completely different? Like something simple. What if all that water before harvest opens the plants pores for a better respiration which results in a better cure? I believe when weed sparks and pops someone's it's water mixing with the melting hot resins, like when you a drop of water in a deep fryer you know?... It just pops and sizzles like crazy! The excess moisture also causes the black ash.

I think most people flush for the wrong reasons and flush too often. Sure if you overfeed you might want to back off on the food cause brown dead weed taste like shit lol, I don't believe a properly fed cannabis plant needs any amount of flushing if grown correctly. I think it is a bandwagon that growers and sales people jumped on years ago and made commonplace, kind of like detox pills and diets, they don't work but they make money and sound good! (Sales being flushing agents obviously)

People say why would advanced make a schedule with a flush at the end if they could just make more money running gbm and additives to the end? Well this is of course because of special marketing tactics that target wider groups of people. Flushers will see it and think "great this adheres to my style" and buy another product, what advanced was thinking was wow there are 5 million gallons of water (probably more) every few months being drained away regardless of what we do, let's add something to that that costs money and get them to throw it away! Lol

In the end it's all preference, I wouldn't recommend a flush cause it could put a plant in shock. I do recommend watering at the end before i harvest but I don't call that a "flush". I've also cut after feeding and the smoke was great imo.

 

[907cannabis]

Bigger yield in a shorter time, sounds like a win/win. Wonder why more people don't use it. How do you know when to flush if AN shortens flowering times? Should I use AN's flushing solution, I don't wanna taste chemicals. Thanks

I can't help but feel you were being sarcastic now...

 

[907cannabis]

Back to the AN subject, here's a photo of a plant I gave my friend, it was a clone from the plant in my avatar. This plant is at day 42 and mine was at 60 when I took that photo, mine was in fox farm soil fed with fox farm trio, his lucky dog with advanced.


There are so many other variables though, I was using a 600w hps and him a 315 lec (CMH) I'm not even sure if I will like his more or not untill I try it. One thing I do know is his already has more weight to it and smells better though.

 

[kristoffolese]

Ok long post here we go ... so "flushing" is different than lowering ppms imo, flushing is using an ungodly amount of water, tapering food is a normal practice id say.

All your points are great, and I like the debate I really do but imo any hydro farmer flushing their tomatoes for "taste" is fucking high, and I'd like to see some literature on tobacco flushing please I wasn't aware of that.

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/flushing-article.22852/

This is a good article with information on why people flush or should flush, read it all its a great read and isn't bias at all but I personally still believe people are overfeeding if they need to flush.

With all this information on the table I'm confused on a few things, he argues very well that the senescence process causes nutrients to be taken up by lower fan leaves and into the bud and that flushing the medium speeds the process but to me this just says there will be more nutrients in the bud and not less. The more the plant moves it's reserves from the leaves to the bud more of EVERY movable nutrient gets transferred to the bud, so where is the logic there?

Another thing is while we're on the basic subject of detoxifying, modern science dismisses the idea that we can "detox" our bodies with a simple fast diet change/pill or drinking lots of lemon enhanced water lol. While plants are much different than us they are much the same in that aspect I believe.

But what if it's all something completely different? Like something simple. What if all that water before harvest opens the plants pores for a better respiration which results in a better cure? I believe when weed sparks and pops someone's it's water mixing with the melting hot resins, like when you a drop of water in a deep fryer you know?... It just pops and sizzles like crazy! The excess moisture also causes the black ash.

I think most people flush for the wrong reasons and flush too often. Sure if you overfeed you might want to back off on the food cause brown dead weed taste like shit lol, I don't believe a properly fed cannabis plant needs any amount of flushing if grown correctly. I think it is a bandwagon that growers and sales people jumped on years ago and made commonplace, kind of like detox pills and diets, they don't work but they make money and sound good! (Sales being flushing agents obviously)

People say why would advanced make a schedule with a flush at the end if they could just make more money running gbm and additives to the end? Well this is of course because of special marketing tactics that target wider groups of people. Flushers will see it and think "great this adheres to my style" and buy another product, what advanced was thinking was wow there are 5 million gallons of water (probably more) every few months being drained away regardless of what we do, let's add something to that that costs money and get them to throw it away! Lol

In the end it's all preference, I wouldn't recommend a flush cause it could put a plant in shock. I do recommend watering at the end before i harvest but I don't call that a "flush". I've also cut after feeding and the smoke was great imo.

On the tobacco flushing, let me see what I can find written... my source is actually a reality tv show I saw a few yrs ago, about a few american tobacco farming families, and their struggle to compete with oversea tobacco farmers. In the end, several families lost their farms, because the price dropped so fucking low, that it wasnt even enough for them to break even, let alone pay their bills & avoid foreclosure.
The “survivors” made it, because they adapted after losing their contracts with RJ Reynolds & others, by switching to a “quality first” approach, creating a better product, and thus being able to sell it at a higher price point, which kept them solvent. Dont recall if the word “flushing” was used specifically- but in essence, thats what he described himself as doing. Just on a larger scale. I dont think they use ridiculous amounts of water like we do, though... pretty sure he was just basically watering with pure water, and not flooding the root zone or anything.

 

[kristoffolese]

Back to the AN subject, here's a photo of a plant I gave my friend, it was a clone from the plant in my avatar. This plant is at day 42 and mine was at 60 when I took that photo, mine was in fox farm soil fed with fox farm trio, his lucky dog with advanced.
View attachment 4079638

There are so many other variables though, I was using a 600w hps and him a 315 lec (CMH) I'm not even sure if I will like his more or not untill I try it. One thing I do know is his already has more weight to it and smells better though.

You know, Iv heard that with the ceramics. Many Ppl impressed with the trich production and terp profile intensity of cmh grown bud. Not experienced w/em myself... I skipped straight to the HLG Quantum Board LEDs, which I am hopelessly in love with. But def impressed with the herb Im seeing cmh’s produce.

 

[907cannabis]

You know, Iv heard that with the ceramics. Many Ppl impressed with the trich production and terp profile intensity of cmh grown bud. Not experienced w/em myself... I skipped straight to the HLG Quantum Board LEDs, which I am hopelessly in love with. But def impressed with the herb Im seeing cmh’s produce.

Maybe that's what is making the smell better. Either way I got a bunch of free grow micro bloom cause a friend moved so I'm gonna use it up and see what I think personally.

 

[kristoffolese]

Maybe that's what is making the smell better. Either way I got a bunch of free grow micro bloom cause a friend moved so I'm gonna use it up and see what I think personally.

Nice

 

[907cannabis]

On the tobacco flushing, let me see what I can find written... my source is actually a reality tv show I saw a few yrs ago, about a few american tobacco farming families, and their struggle to compete with oversea tobacco farmers. In the end, several families lost their farms, because the price dropped so fucking low, that it wasnt even enough for them to break even, let alone pay their bills & avoid foreclosure.
The “survivors” made it, because they adapted after losing their contracts with RJ Reynolds & others, by switching to a “quality first” approach, creating a better product, and thus being able to sell it at a higher price point, which kept them solvent. Dont recall if the word “flushing” was used specifically- but in essence, thats what he described himself as doing. Just on a larger scale. I dont think they use ridiculous amounts of water like we do, though... pretty sure he was just basically watering with pure water, and not flooding the root zone or anything.

This post reminds me of an older movie called somersby, it's about a guy that owns a tobacco farm and goes off to war, he dies but while he's there he meets his doppelgänger and tells him all about his life. They doppelgänger goes back and takes over his family, ****s his wife (she knows kinda) and runs the guys tobacco farm or starts one I can't remember. A lot of the movie is him growing tobacco to compete with other growers.

On a different note check this out, I was just arguing against flushing but I wanted to see what flawless finish was all about so I went digging.

http://www.jhbiotech.com/plant_products/chelation.htm

Seems like chelates could speed senescence, resulting in a faster finish. I could be mistaking though.

 

[DirtyEyeball696]

What! Nasty. And advanced is watered down crap.


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[907cannabis]

What! Nasty. And advanced is watered down crap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol did you change your mind on advanced or is that sarcasm, I was defending your post two years ago you posted some awesome results, they hated and wouldn't give u props cause u used advanced, ur plants were amazing man good job.

Have you since switched?

 

[DirtyEyeball696]

Yes I have I use a two part
Cogo’s
I did the comparison
It’s double in strength and over half in cost. And it’s very impressive imo


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[907cannabis]

Case closed then! Nice to get some follow up.

I know a lot of growers using an that do better than me, doesn't mean they are the best but to me it says better than fox farms lineup.

Will be adding cogos to my list of possibles thanks.

 

[budman111]

Plants only want or need 16 nutrient elements in its base supplement and this can be bought at a fraction of the price that AN sells, without all the cheesy cliches on the label too.

 

[907cannabis]

without all the cheesy cliches on the label too.

But that's the best part man!

I should take some cheap nutes and refill all my advanced bottles with them and then sell them back to my friend and see what he thinks.

This way he gets the satisfaction of adding 10 bottles that have fancy labels and they will work great too lol!

Of course I'm gonna use it all first though, it was free so as far as I'm concerned my advanced bundle is better than anyone else's that payed for it lol.

 

[calvin.m16]

I've used Advanced Nutrients 3 part PH perfect for a few months now without issues where on my other tent I'm using General Hydro FloraNova and it has grown WAY slower and the plants don't look nearly as healthy. I'll stick with Advanced Nutrients PH Perfect 3 part and continue not having to PH my RO water and continue harvesting 7 ounces per/plant using LED lights in a 4x8 tent.

There are too many douchebags on this forum that think they know it all when in reality they're just old farts who think their opinion is always right and anyone who says otherwise is stupid or ignorant.

WELL I BEEN GROWIN FOR 9 YRS NOW AND I GROW TOMATERS AND U SHOULDNT WATCH UTUBE BECUZ IT MAKES U A DUMB GROWER HURHUE DURP DURP.

 

[KryptoBud]

I've used Advanced Nutrients 3 part PH perfect for a few months now without issues where on my other tent I'm using General Hydro FloraNova and it has grown WAY slower and the plants don't look nearly as healthy. I'll stick with Advanced Nutrients PH Perfect 3 part and continue not having to PH my RO water and continue harvesting 7 ounces per/plant using LED lights in a 4x8 tent.

There are too many douchebags on this forum that think they know it all when in reality they're just old farts who think their opinion is always right and anyone who says otherwise is stupid or ignorant.

Who cares use what you want, bumping a five year old thread just to call people named does make you look like the douche though.

 

[calvin.m16]

Who cares use what you want, bumping a five year old thread just to call people named does make you look like the douche though.

100th post.