The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee opposes progressives

ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
PCXV said:
Does equating establishment democrats with republicans help reform the democratic party? Will it hurt us in the short term? Or is it better to maintaining the slow, gentle progress with Democrats towards progressivism by persuading the various democratic constituencies, which seems to be working, while focusing our firepower on the more pressing problem of the Republican party?
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Slow gentle 'progress' has moved the country further the right over my lifetime.

I'm not satisfied the results of gradualism and so I'm backing a different approach.

If people will vote for Trump just because he represented change (not that he had any intention of actually delivering on it, of course), the time is right for bold steps.

The Democratic Party has gotten complacent even as the Republicans have gotten ever more extremist. If now isn't the time to fight, when would be?

I'm not optimistic that progressives can get involved and change things fast enough to avoid calamity. There are too many who need more convincing. For them, the crash will be proof but it will of course be too late to prevent it.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
PCXV said:
Do you think there are instances where a district might only go for a moderate democrat at best and that running a more progressive candidate would be unwise as it would assure the win of an even greater evil (Republican)?
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I am a firm believer the 80/20 rule; let's take the 80% and stop worrying about the 20%.

I also believe that those who want a conservative candidate already have a choice; Republicans. The progressive Movement is about offering a real choice for a change, not just the appearance of one.

Do you really think people voted for Obama because we all wanted governance to the right of Reagan?!
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
PCXV said:
Is there a better, more tactful way to do that than simply equating them? Doesn't the action of holding Democrats accountable already separate the parties? Republicans sure as hell aren't holding elected Republicans accountable.
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What do you mean by "better or more tactful"?

The problem is that Democrats don't hold them accountable, so they continue to get away with it. To me, pointing the finger at Republicans and saying they're the problem while denying Democrats are just as corrupted is pointless. Everyone know's Republicans are corrupted, when Democrats deny Democratic politicians are as well, it perpetuates the problem.
PCXV said:
Interesting argument. I think you are right in a way, but if you ask any conservative they will say the democrat/liberal constituency is further left than ever. Within the context of your argument, I guess you could say that while the constituency of Democrats has moved left, the Democratic party has moved right as a political maneuver. Right?

I want to hold Democrats accountable to my ideals, but I also don't want to aid Republicans whose ideals are the exact opposite of mine on many issues.
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That's exactly right. I believe my political beliefs are relatively center/center left. They're not all that radical when you poll constituents. I think people should have access to healthcare as a fundamental right, I think people should earn enough money if they work full time to survive and pay their bills. These are not extreme left positions. Most Americans agree with them, even conservatives.

The only way to defeat Republicans is by supporting a progressive agenda and promoting the politicians that will actually fight for the interests of their constituents. We've had 8 years of nothing but losses across the country because the moderate Democratic strategy has failed to connect with average voters who still haven't recovered from the economic crash of 2008. We hear shit from them like "America is already great!" when they don't feel it. They know they're being lied to by the same people who promised to fix the problems they were voted into office to fix.
 
Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Slow gentle 'progress' has moved the country further the right over my lifetime.

I'm not satisfied the results of gradualism and so I'm backing a different approach.

If people will vote for Trump just because he represented change (not that he had any intention of actually delivering on it, of course), the time is right for bold steps.

The Democratic Party has gotten complacent even as the Republicans have gotten ever more extremist. If now isn't the time to fight, when would be?

I'm not optimistic that progressives can get involved and change things fast enough to avoid calamity. There are too many who need more convincing. For them, the crash will be proof but it will of course be too late to prevent it.
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My sense is that this country has moved to the left over the past 50 years, at least in terms of social policy, in what ways do you feel the country has gone to the right?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
My sense is that this country has moved to the left over the past 50 years, at least in terms of social policy, in what ways do you feel the country has gone to the right?
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Ummmm I'm not the guy who thinks the country moved to the right. I'm the guy who's been saying our political parties have been moving resolutely to the right, in spite of the desires of the voters.

Why? Follow the money; corporations have been finding ways to influence policy and the politicians who set it and have limitless funds to buy the results they want. Give an entity with the psychological characteristics of a megacorporation the ability to control government and history has shown that right wing authoritarianism is the outcome.

The Progressive Movement is not a corporate led entity, but rather is fueled and funded by real citizens of limited economic means in an effort to make their voices heard and get government to set policies that allow them- us- earn living wages, take care of our sick and give us a hopeful and prosperous future.

The American people didn't move anywhere in terms of their political views. Our political system has simply ignored those on the left so thoroughly that a lot of people forgot they existed.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
My sense is that this country has moved to the left over the past 50 years, at least in terms of social policy, in what ways do you feel the country has gone to the right?
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I agree with you when it comes to the social issues. There's no doubt the country is much more progressive when it comes to things like racism and LGBT rights. But even on some of the social issues, even Democratic politicians aren't fully there yet. Hillary Clinton only signed onto gay marriage in 2013, today we have Nancy Pelosi endorsing people who oppose abortion rights and LGBT rights, the leader of the House Democrats...

But when it comes to economic issues, many establishment Democrats are just as bad as Republicans. Take the 12 Senate Democrats who just cosponsored the Republican bill to roll back banking regulations put in place after the 08 crash. They throw voters a bone when it comes to social issues, and for some, that's enough. But not for me. It's good they're pretending to support social issues, corporations don't care about those issues because they don't affect their bottom line. But what about the economic issues that will help the working class? Odd Democratic politicians wouldn't support those..
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
I agree with you when it comes to the social issues. There's no doubt the country is much more progressive when it comes to things like racism and LGBT rights. But even on some of the social issues, even Democratic politicians aren't fully there yet. Hillary Clinton only signed onto gay marriage in 2013, today we have Nancy Pelosi endorsing people who oppose abortion rights and LGBT rights, the leader of the House Democrats...

But when it comes to economic issues, many establishment Democrats are just as bad as Republicans. Take the 12 Senate Democrats who just cosponsored the Republican bill to roll back banking regulations put in place after the 08 crash. They throw voters a bone when it comes to social issues, and for some, that's enough. But not for me. It's good they're pretending to support social issues, corporations don't care about those issues because they don't affect their bottom line. But what about the economic issues that will help the working class? Odd Democratic politicians wouldn't support those..
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How about we take the other 50 senators, all Republican when talking about that bill. How about we take the 32 Democratic Senators who voted against that bill when we talk about how they showed up to make a statement that a minority of leaders in the Democratic Party were for this bill. The Democratic Party can't defined by the 33% of Democratic Caucus Senators who voted for the bill. The Republican Party most certainly can be defined by the 100% of Republican Caucus Senators who voted for it.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
How about we take the other 50 senators, all Republican when talking about that bill. How about we take the 32 Democratic Senators who voted against that bill when we talk about how they showed up to make a statement that a minority of leaders in the Democratic Party were for this bill. The Democratic Party can't defined by the 33% of Democratic Caucus Senators who voted for the bill. The Republican Party most certainly can be defined by the 100% of Republican Caucus Senators who voted for it.
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We can certainly hold Chuckie Schumer responsible for not bothering to put up a fight. He's the Minority Leader and therefore the very epicenter of Democratic policy.

Clown.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
We can certainly hold Chuckie Schumer responsible for not bothering to put up a fight. He's the Minority Leader and therefore the very epicenter of Democratic policy.

Clown.
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Democrats invoked fillibuster which was broken by 100% of Republican Senators (50) voting with 1/3 of the Democratic Senators (16). 2/3 (32) of Democratic Senators voted against.

Fault lies with those most responsible. Republicans are most responsible.

The fault lies with Republicans

Fact.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Democrats invoked fillibuster which was broken by 100% of Republican Senators (50) voting with 1/3 of the Democratic Senators (16). 2/3 (32) of Democratic Senators voted against.

Fault lies with those most responsible. Republicans are most responsible.

The fault lies with Republicans

Fact.
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It wouldn't have passed without Democratic support. Fact.

So why is it okay for you to let them off the hook?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
And look! It seems that Laura Moser is in good company. Apparently, establishment Democrats across the country are attacking Progressive candidates, calling them Trump supporters and worse;

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/07/illinois-democratic-party-michael-madigan-mailers/

More evidence of the Democratic Party's willingness to follow the 'iron law of institutions'- better to lose and stay in control than let someone who you might not be able to control have a shot at winning.
 
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