mr. childs
Well-Known Member
yes, no problems for me in veg
NFTG. Nectar For The Gods
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IrieRoots
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I guess if it works for you, then have at it, but the guy who formulated the entire line says the calcium molecule in these bottles can't be absorbed by the leaf stomata. I'm sure it feeds the beneficial organisms residing on the plant surfaces. The Nectar bible recommends Cal-Carb from Extreme Gardening but it's messy. I don't even think the calcium in Cultured Biologix Trigger even does much in the way of calcium as a foliar, but great to put in the root zone. I do foliar Trigger but it's more for Amino acids and Aloe.
I would save the Demeters for the root zone, or email Scott as I'm sure he can break it down better. I take Demeters up to 20 ml per gallon in root drenches!!
the leafs praying with lights on and off some has to do what you do but most of it in flower after week 3 she ramping up and producing and working so the leafs will be praying cause of it with lights off .. this is where she shows me that i can ramp up the food more to ...
IrieRoots
Well-Known Member
great point, makes sense.....it's "Tha language of the plant!!" She will tell you all you need to know!......and slurry when ya don't. LOL
IrieRoots
Well-Known Member
I like the EZ Teas for ease of use and for when I'm too lazy to bubble an AACT but prolly won't purchase again when I run out. I like all the CB products but don't get the plant response that justifies buying more. Great products as tools on the shelf but I prefer Fish Aminos and aloe flakes over the plant based Trigger, For Veg teas when not AACT I'm going with the Alaska Fish Mix from Buffaloam, Roots Terp Tea bloom or build-a-bloom play nice with Nectar and loaded with CALCIUM, also I love Blacksmith Biophos, and always work in a Bokashi & Frass tea for nutrient cycling!! Dr. Root is nice too but I inoculate Endo at seed crack and transplants with direct root contact with BioAg VAM, I just don't see better results with CB compared to these other methods. When I do see the best results from CB, it's when I go heavy on the "Nectar Tea" recipes, pairing CB with Herc, Triton, Mega, etc....But at this point it's a FEED more than a TEA. Just my 2 cents and experience as I have tried a plethora of "TEA" type dry blend products.
IrieRoots
Well-Known Member
I still would recommend Cultured as it helps you incorporate and learn how to use some of the additional Nectar additives.....
...... and on another microbe note, I love Real Growers Recharge but don't use it with Nectar due to the high concentrations of Kelp, humics and molasses of which can be tough to measure against Nectar feeds. The amount of potassium is unknown and can really throw the Calcium uptake way off as Potassium moves freely into the plant easier than calcium and if the balance is off in the root zone the plant will suck up the potasium and leave the calcium; equating to leaf claw, twists, yellowing, any number of hard to diagnose deficiency/toxicity. If planning on using Recharge I reccommend bubbling for an hour or two and keep a light hand on the Nectar feed bottles that have the same ingredients.....ingredients that are designed to not screw up the Calcium uptake when used as directed.
P.S.- all my findings have come from trial & error and through Brix readings to figure out what actually works the best and is most efficient.
...... and on another microbe note, I love Real Growers Recharge but don't use it with Nectar due to the high concentrations of Kelp, humics and molasses of which can be tough to measure against Nectar feeds. The amount of potassium is unknown and can really throw the Calcium uptake way off as Potassium moves freely into the plant easier than calcium and if the balance is off in the root zone the plant will suck up the potasium and leave the calcium; equating to leaf claw, twists, yellowing, any number of hard to diagnose deficiency/toxicity. If planning on using Recharge I reccommend bubbling for an hour or two and keep a light hand on the Nectar feed bottles that have the same ingredients.....ingredients that are designed to not screw up the Calcium uptake when used as directed.
P.S.- all my findings have come from trial & error and through Brix readings to figure out what actually works the best and is most efficient.
IrieRoots
Well-Known Member
I can dig it!! I always Topdress throughout.....only in veg if staying there over 4 weeks, definitely at Transition and one final in flower at 4 weeks like your saying. Except I will spice up the castings with light amendments so the biology has a feast! I've used the Cultured recipe at 10:1, or like 1/4 - 1/2 strength One Shot, but my favorite Top Dress recipe for week 4 bloom is my homemade castings for the base, then I add Biochar, ground Malted Barley, Be-1 pellets, and bokashi. Then water it in with EM-1, lactic acid bacteria, or fermented fruit extract if on hand. This is my secret weapon!! It gives amazing results, fills in the "law of minimums" through the most important part of flowering in my opinion(zero hidden hunger!) and there's studies that have found that the minerals & biology in the ferments/EM-1/bokashi result in more essential oil and terpene production. Between this top dress and the Alaska Fish Mix(lactic acid ferment hydrolysis) that I swear by now, all I can say is WOW! I've learned One of the best things to do in organic gardening is base your regiments a week to two in advance of the up coming growth stage so your always keeping the plant/root zone primed and not trying to play catch up. It certainly helps significantly to know Your genetics and their time frames, finish, etc....
I had to read and re read this..lol….. im still learning about microbes ...When I do amended soil I use bokashi , worm casting , earthshine Biochar , Ive learned that bokashi help to keep the 'gum' down …..with my tea days cultured , photoplus , fishsh!t , gonna add some bigfoot in my mix … and now im checking out a website called build a soil ….have another question ? did you change how you feed ? strength ? with nectar ..
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IrieRoots
Well-Known Member
-Buildasoil is awesome, there is some great videos on their site too about living soil. I use many of their products, LMK if you are interested an anything they sell and I can prolly help.
- I wouldn't mix the Bigfoot, it wouldn't hurt but that type of fungi, Arbiscular Mycorrizae, has to come in direct contact with root. Sprinkle in hole at transplant or dust the rootball, and the direct contact is just the first step. Its best to innoculate with Bigfoot spores at seed pop or clone because they can take up to 21 days to fully colonize the roots, and the only way these fungi can survive is attached to the root and the only way the fungal spore will even germinate and form this root relationship is from exudates from the root, the plant signals the fungal network. And if the plant is getting all its nutrients in plant available form, and mainly phosphorous, it won't signal the spore to germinate and lock on!! This is why colonization in the earliest stages is so important, and in indoor gardening its an even smaller window for successful colonization because most growers are pouring on soluble nutrients before the plant has established a strong relationship with the fungi so if the plant is getting all the phosphorous it requires from the grower, the plant no longer needs the fungi and will stop signaling!! THIS IS THE MOST OVER LOOKED STEP IN THE MICROBE WORLD!! I could go on and on but I'm trying to explain it so you have a general understanding of Endo Mycorrizae(Bigfoot). Go on youtube, and watch Dr. Amaranthus do a Green Room Live at Oregons Constant Gardener. He is the King of Endo Mycorrizae and explains it perfectly. There is a lot of different organic tips and tricks to get the same outcome but this type of fungi works one way and only one way. So, I innoculate at seed pop in SOLO Cups and don't add any additional microbe products for at least 2 weeks and no bottled nutes either, except Fulvics, aloe and yucca, And BAM!! The platform is set!
-Sorry for being so wordy but this is important stuff and I don't ever read, see or hear anyone using these type of products correctly!! You will be ahead of most growers if you watch that Amaranthus video and follow these simple steps.
- And finally to Nutes and Topdressing, LOL, Like I mentioned....I water in the TopD with EM-1, ful power and coconut water and thats it, No nutes. The next watering I will cut Gaia and Medusa in half and thats it, the rest of the Nectar goes in full strength!! You could do a slurry before the first feed after the TopD but all the stuff I use for the TopD has to be broken down before available to the plant. Its very gentle and slow releasing, and I think it's pivotal to maintaining the soil life as it becomes a Full, longer term meal for the microbes....whereas If they had to rely on the Nectar for their main food source their not really getting a balanced meal, their just getting the sloppy seconds of whatever the plant doesn't take up....microbes get lazy!! Granted nectar is amazing but not much meat and potatoes, this is why I TopD!! Next step from these methods is nutrient cycling with protozoa teas!! But we can tackle that later....I enjoy sharing what I learn and experience, we all grow together! The trick is filtering out all the bad misinformation.
that explains why with bigfoot (concentrate ) sprinkle in at transplant … now with bigfoot (granular ) I can use with my tea days ? thanks for sending me in the direction of the youtube video … teach me I wanna learn this microbe stuff... I have an some what of an idea … lol...
IrieRoots
Well-Known Member
Granular is just a carrier for the spores, still needs direct root contact. The powders are for liquid suspension and drenching, or dusting roots.... like Cultured Dr. Root. Put granular in transplant hole, dust roots with powder, if in early stages like I explained, don't do any other tea type bacteria microbe drenches yet, just let the plant establish itself with the Bigfoot and whatever microbes are already present in a good potting mix. Then after 2 weeks you can start incorporating your Teas and throw some Bigfoot powder in that first Tea just for good measure. If you do the Bigfoot right the first time, the rest of the grow the res no need to add it anymore....it colonizes roots and extends into the soil as the plant grows.
IrieRoots
Well-Known Member
The only time I reinnoculate with Bigfoot later in a grow is if I messed up and let the pots dry out way too much as they need moisture to stay alive. But proper colonization allows for more drought tolerency, less watering, pathogen defence, and amazing root health due to Bigfoot solubizes phosphorous ten times better than any bacteria product could ever dream of doing!! Endo Myco fungi(bigfoot) is the single most important microbe in the rootzone, its the General and your bacteria/other fungi life are the soldiers. As the soldier mine the battlefield in perfect chaos, the protozoa sweep in and clean up like medics!! And the plant is the commander & chief!! Its a continuous loop of life and death and when unbalanced, the plant will tell you!!
IrieRoots
Well-Known Member
Once you get a feel for the symbiosis of it all, you start to relate it to the stages of growth. Then you apply certain inputs for said growth stages to facilitate certain plant responses. Root development, explosive growth, flower set, stacking, swelling, ripening!! And with organics, you set it up in advance, with Nectar its more of a hybrid approach because it is already plant available out of the bottle but the feed schedule is pretty much based around this method and takes the guess work out. So in order to take full advantage of the microbes and reep the benefits, we need to feed them and since we have knowledge of what foods are good for the plant at certain stages, we TopD accordingly to facilitate this, and apply TEAs to replenish the soldiers and nutrient cycle. Do you have to? NO, but I highly recommend it. I used to haphazardly throw all kinds microbe TEA type products in with no regard and I got haphazard results. Now with a better understanding, I apply more specifically in order to get a certain response. Its not for everyone, I'm just passionate about it all and can't get enough soil knowledge to satisfy my hunger!! In a nutshell....you Bigfoot stays alive the whole time the plant root is alive and all the bacteria are multiplying and dying constantly. We assist and kind of maintain the cycle but the plant is the commander and chief, if it has a need for a certain nutrient it will release a specific root exudate to attract a specific bacteria or fungi that it inherently knows solubizes that particular nutrient it needs. Simply amazing!!
IrieRoots
Well-Known Member
The krux, when using plant available nutrients like nectar, the plant can get lazy and stop releasing the exudates to attract certain microbes and that cycle goes dormant. The microbes are still in the soil doing there thing and they are still beneficial to the plant but The symbiosis is missing a link. The good thing about nectar is that its gentle and doesn't interupt these plant mechanisms too much if we establish these relationships and manage them properly. This is where the TopD comes into play, they create full meals and not constant Nectar deserts so if the plant has a want that nectar is not supplying, the TopD & TEAS are there to facilitate those plant mechanisms and keeps the plant on its toes. I've had plants go lazy and need Nectar like it was a daily drug habit! Thats pretty much how I learned these methods for nectar, I've done Living soil water only style with TopD & TEAs so just incorporated those methods and have found I pretty good balance! This works for me and to this day I have not seen better plant health, next level plant health!!
Hope this all helps and not too confusing! I like shareing my experience, plus i can go back read this stuff like its grow notes....win win!!
Hope this all helps and not too confusing! I like shareing my experience, plus i can go back read this stuff like its grow notes....win win!!
IrieRoots
Well-Known Member
Go light on your TopD at first just to get a feel for it, you can always add more if it can take it!! The Be-1 pellets I apply at like 2 teaspoons to 3 gallon pot, it's what's written on the bag, and I can literally watch them get devoured over the following week.....a good sign that the microbes are alive and well!! If the pellets and other TopD goodies are lingering around too long then something is probably out of whack, so I will apply a TEA to boost the microbe numbers. And like you said earlier, it works on the bone gum too!! Cut some black breathable landscape fabric to the shape of your pot and cover your TopD after you water in, (mulch doesn't play well with nectar), it should keep enough moisture up top that you will see the microbe fuzz colonize the soil surface and slow transpiration, can lower humidity too if needed.......and less watering!! The fuzz will annihilate the bone gum if you can keep it alive!!
thanks !!! for all the info !!!! here a pic of my amended soil ….I did have an issue when I used bigfoot (concentrate) sprinkle in hole and used dr root sprinkle in hole then watered with dr root and easy tea , leafs strated to yellow and my ph jump as high as 7.5 ..it took a couple of feeding to get that ph in range and for the plant to take off ….. no idea if it was transplant shock or something else ….
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IrieRoots
Well-Known Member
When bacteria multiply in large numbers it drives the ph up from what I've read and experienced. I've had aerated teas start at 6.5 and finish at 7.8, I don't know the exact science. I have to use a lower ph start point when using cultured cause it always bumps my ph up. With this and the transplant shock it was just out of balance and caused a lock out. Cultured has higher numbers of bacteria than most products. It's why I keep it simple and try to get that Bigfoot in place first.
interesting … what I should of done ,sprinkle in bigfoot and then water bigfoot in ? now in using RO water so I add fullon to get micro back in water ..maybe what I should of done when I did a transplant was to sprinkle bigfoot (granular) in hole then watered in the (concentrate ) then start the FFT ? and get on the nectar feeding regiment ?