The Greatest Show On Earth Presents The 16oz Party Cup Grow Off

[whytewidow]

With the same intensity, leaf temps and VPD there should be no difference in transpiration. You only need higher ambient temps to get the same leaf temps like with HPS. 28-29°C is optimal without CO2 and with HPS you need 25-26°C ambient to get the leaf temps in the desired range. With "cold" LED light there is almost no heat/infra red radiation and the leaves have almost the same temps like the sourrounding air(within 1-2°C less). For this reason we need higher ambient temps and because humidity is relative we need higher humidity too.

Heat is not wasted! Plants also need heat but it don't drives photosynthesis directly. But it allows her to work more active. Like insects... At 20°C you can catch a fly easily by hand but at 30°C its almost impossible! An plant getting only 500μMol/s/m² but at 30°C grows faster like the same plant under 1500μMol/s but with only 20°C.
View attachment 4293292

Heat is an important factor inside a grow room and to say its wasted energy is simply not true. We can safe the energy produced from hps by using LEDs but we need higher ambient temps to get the same high growth rates and even better results. We can only get away with leds because the reflected light is also converted into heat and when we reduce the airflow its most of the time enough to heat up the tent but you need a minimum intensity and at the end we end up again with the 30-35w/sft recommendation.

And roughly 35% of the heat put out by a 1khps is wasted. Bc its withdrawn from the grow area. Not all of it. But alot of it. How many people you know running 1khps isnt either extracting the heat bc its too much. Or cooling it with ac to get temps down. Which in turn is heat not used, and wasted electricity. Nobody runs a 1khps and the temp be right spot on. Without some type of either cooling or extraction. Which is essentially wasted. How can you say any heat extracted out to the atmosphere isnt unused heat and isnt wasted. That makes no sense. Or if you have to cool the ambient air temp with ac. The heated air you are cooling has already used electricity to produce it. And now your using more electricity to cool it. After it's already been heated up. Is wasting. Either way you look at it. That's the samething as saying I'll sell you this dollar for 1.50 you wasted 50 cents bc it's still only worth a dollar.

Edit: my point is led will outgrow hps. Plain n simple. It takes less energy to produce the same results or better.

 

[OneHitDone]

And roughly 35% of the heat put out by a 1khps is wasted. Bc its withdrawn from the grow area. Not all of it. But alot of it. How many people you know running 1khps isnt either extracting the heat bc its too much. Or cooling it with ac to get temps down. Which in turn is heat not used, and wasted electricity. Nobody runs a 1khps and the temp be right spot on. Without some type of either cooling or extraction. Which is essentially wasted. How can you say any heat extracted out to the atmosphere isnt unused heat and isnt wasted. That makes no sense. Or if you have to cool the ambient air temp with ac. The heated air you are cooling has already used electricity to produce it. And now your using more electricity to cool it. After it's already been heated up. Is wasting. Either way you look at it. That's the samething as saying I'll sell you this dollar for 1.50 you wasted 50 cents bc it's still only worth a dollar.

Edit: my point is led will outgrow hps. Plain n simple. It takes less energy to produce the same results or better.

Situational bro, have you been to the cool northern cali coast (humbolt)?
People run garages full of gravitas with just a simple 10" fan to keep temps in check.
There is no "Best" way and definitely no Unicorn Photons

 

[Thegermling]

Have you tried the new formula yet? It doesn't have enough mag in it either. Works great in soil. But it's not enough for coco.

I have the 750g sample but I still have about half a bag of the old formula. I did the math for a 4.5 gram/gal dose and im not happy still with the amount of mg in the new formula.

 

[whytewidow]

I have the 750g sample but I still have about half a bag of the old formula. I did the math for a 4.5 gram/gal dose and im not happy still with the amount of mg in the new formula.

Yeah me either. I have to add Epsom salt at 1.0-1.5g per gallon in coco with the new formula.

 

[whytewidow]

Situational bro, have you been to the cool northern cali coast (humbolt)?
People run garages full of gravitas with just a simple 10" fan to keep temps in check.
There is no "Best" way and definitely no Unicorn Photons

There is a best way. I'd rather it cost me 60 bucks in electricity a run for a # than pay 100. For the same amount of product. Especially when its shown to have higher terp % better growth, higher yield, and more trich production. It's been proven multiple times you can atleast bare minimum cut 25% power consumption per run over HID. And that's just facts. Whether you wanna believe it or not. You go ahead and step over the dime to grab that penny. And I'll jus set here and collect dimes.

 

[CanadianDank]

Yes. Unicorn or not. Leds outgrow hps. No matter how you set it. Leds outgrow hps. With less wattage. That's simple information. Everyone knows it doesnt take 1000 watts of good diodes to match 1khps. Come on dude. I would think as much as you hang out in the led section you would know led is better.

I used hps when tent was in a cold basement, and led when it was moved to an upstairs bedroom.

There is no one size fits all of course.

Your talking points are great and we've all heard them, but you made a claim that I feel you haven't been adequately addressing.

We know it's more energy efficient assuming you don't need the extra heat, but you claimed that at an identical canopy intensity there would be a growth advantage to having led over hps.

Can you elaborate on this please

 

[Stephenj37826]

Come on bro, that's like Unicorn talk.
So if we set up two identical tents side by side and set them up to have 800umol's at the canopy in each tent - the LED is going to outgrow the hps?

I would think so. As well CMH. White led and CMH both have a higher efficiency spectrum wise. It's actually quantifiable via weighing the spectrum against the McCree curve (the best we currently have) I'm thinking it's still only a 10-15% difference.

As far as white light LEDs needing a different nutrient regimen vs HPS the same can be said about HPS vs the Sun. So every indoor light source will need a custom nutrient and temperature regimen vs natural outdoor grown. So just because HPS is the technology that had been around and everyone has adjusted to it accordingly doesn't make led inferior because it needs that same treatment.....

 

[ChronicWonders.]

Here’s my sad specimen:
Just have not gotten any stretch off this plant yet.

 

[whytewidow]

I used hps when tent was in a cold basement, and led when it was moved to an upstairs bedroom.

There is no one size fits all of course.

Your talking points are great and we've all heard them, but you made a claim that I feel you haven't been adequately addressing.

We know it's more energy efficient assuming you don't need the extra heat, but you claimed that at an identical canopy intensity there would be a growth advantage to having led over hps.

Can you elaborate on this please

There is better growth with leds than hps with the same intensity. I run side by 400watt hps in one 32x32 tent. And my first light build of Samsung f562b strips in 3000k. That not only did the 400hps put out about 530 on the par meter at 18" so I dimmed down my light to 526 was as close as i could get it. Same exact tent. Same strain. Flipped both at 7 nodes. The led tent yield almost 31 grams more. And had visible trich increases that you could tell by looking at it. The plant also got bigger with more flower sites than under hps. Close node spacing as well creating bigger colas. Both in 3gal smartpots with promix hp and perlite. I only built one light to try before I switched everything over. There are 1000s of people switching to led. Bc its better. On almost every front. The biggest downfall is living where theres seasons. Winter time is cold here. Do occasionally heaters have to be used in my case. Theres 100s of YouTube videos showing how led is better. And whatnot. I'm not getting into the led vs. Hps convo on here. Theres 200 thread page on here with people arguing about it. I got better results with switching to led. I upped my yield and trich production, lowered my cost per run, lowered my electric bill.

As I said before those of you still running hps that's fine. It doesnt bother me. Eventually you'll come to the dark side. And you'll nvr go back.

Edit: I have replaced 4 tents worth of hps myself. As well as built over 22 lights for other people who switched out from hps. And have loved the results. Not one person I've built a light for has had one bad thing to say about going to leds.

 

[whytewidow]

I would think so. As well CMH. White led and CMH both have a higher efficiency spectrum wise. It's actually quantifiable via weighing the spectrum against the McCree curve (the best we currently have) I'm thinking it's still only a 10-15% difference.

As far as white light LEDs needing a different nutrient regimen vs HPS the same can be said about HPS vs the Sun. So every indoor light source will need a custom nutrient and temperature regimen vs natural outdoor grown. So just because HPS is the technology that had been around and everyone has adjusted to it accordingly doesn't make led inferior because it needs that same treatment.....

An increase is an increase. Just as I said.. thanks for backing up my statement. Leds arent for everyone.

 

[CanadianDank]

There is better growth with leds than hps with the same intensity. I run side by 400watt hps in one 32x32 tent. And my first light build of Samsung f562b strips in 3000k. That not only did the 400hps put out about 530 on the par meter at 18" so I dimmed down my light to 526 was as close as i could get it. Same exact tent. Same strain. Flipped both at 7 nodes. The led tent yield almost 31 grams more. And had visible trich increases that you could tell by looking at it. The plant also got bigger with more flower sites than under hps. Close node spacing as well creating bigger colas. Both in 3gal smartpots with promix hp and perlite. I only built one light to try before I switched everything over. There are 1000s of people switching to led. Bc its better. On almost every front. The biggest downfall is living where theres seasons. Winter time is cold here. Do occasionally heaters have to be used in my case. Theres 100s of YouTube videos showing how led is better. And whatnot. I'm not getting into the led vs. Hps convo on here. Theres 200 thread page on here with people arguing about it. I got better results with switching to led. I upped my yield and trich production, lowered my cost per run, lowered my electric bill.

As I said before those of you still running hps that's fine. It doesnt bother me. Eventually you'll come to the dark side. And you'll nvr go back.

Edit: I have replaced 4 tents worth of hps myself. As well as built over 22 lights for other people who switched out from hps. And have loved the results. Not one person I've built a light for has had one bad thing to say about going to leds.

Thanks man. The more I think about it the more sense it makes I guess.
The most logical explanation would probably come down to more even light distribution with LEDs vs hps.
I don't have the experience to make a judgement based off my own experiences, but like anything else a lot of it comes down to your specific situation and resource concerns. Whether that's upfront costs, long term savings, heat, space or otherwise.

 

[Jetfixer100]

And roughly 35% of the heat put out by a 1khps is wasted. Bc its withdrawn from the grow area. Not all of it. But alot of it. How many people you know running 1khps isnt either extracting the heat bc its too much. Or cooling it with ac to get temps down. Which in turn is heat not used, and wasted electricity. Nobody runs a 1khps and the temp be right spot on. Without some type of either cooling or extraction. Which is essentially wasted. How can you say any heat extracted out to the atmosphere isnt unused heat and isnt wasted. That makes no sense. Or if you have to cool the ambient air temp with ac. The heated air you are cooling has already used electricity to produce it. And now your using more electricity to cool it. After it's already been heated up. Is wasting. Either way you look at it. That's the samething as saying I'll sell you this dollar for 1.50 you wasted 50 cents bc it's still only worth a dollar.

Edit: my point is led will outgrow hps. Plain n simple. It takes less energy to produce the same results or better.

Why y’all gotta sciencefuck the shit outta everything? Can’t we all just grow some weed?

 

[ChronicWonders.]

Why y’all gotta sciencefuck the shit outta everything? Can’t we all just grow some weed?

My pictures show otherwise.

I agree though @SSGrower about leaf texture. As a first time LED grower coming from hps and outdoors that is my biggest problem so far.

 

[CanadianDank]

HERE IS MY GRAND COMPETITOR:

"BIRD"




Light is gen1 eb strips 3000k
Medium is soil
Nutes is botanicare pbp bloom. Only fed twice super soft so far.

 

[Cannabis.Queen]

It was between these two


And the winner is (my chosen one)




My light is an Apollo 1000w

My medium is a soiless mix with promix nutes

My Strain is shoreline devils harvest (I've ran a few times before I do love the bud from it)

 

[OneHitDone]

Here’s my sad specimen:
Just have not gotten any stretch off this plant yet.

View attachment 4293443 View attachment 4293445 View attachment 4293447

Short and thick does the trick!

 

[Jetfixer100]

Cupdate - I trimmed her up a bit, but she’s still going strong!

Medium - Micro DWC
Strain - Jack Herer (Seedsman freebie)
Nutrients - Cutting Edge Solutions
Lights - Cheap 100W LED Bulb and 45W side strips

 

[OneHitDone]

My pictures show otherwise.

I agree though @SSGrower about leaf texture. As a first time LED grower coming from hps and outdoors that is my biggest problem so far.

Maybe @Stephenj37826 can chime in on this. It is the exact reason I keep challenging him to join in on the lettuce thread and I have a pretty good hunch why he keeps dodging.
Only takes a few minutes on lunch break to set that up in the corner of the office.
I'm not trying to bust your balls bro, I genuinely want to figure this out. Who doesn't want to save power?

 

[Big Green Thumb]

Weekly update: my three plants are finally growing a bit so there is hope. I don't get how some of you guys' plants are already well into flowering. None of mine are even showing sex yet. My number 3 plant is the best performer still but the other 2 are doing okay.
Strain: Gunslinger
Breeder: GPS
Nutes: Jacks 321 (slightly modified to add more Ca and Mg) feeding twice daily most days at around 1050 ppm
Lights: super rare and very expensive Birdcage light from Master BGT
Grow Media: coco + perlite at 1:1 or so.

 

[Cannabis.Queen]

Cupdate - I trimmed her up a bit, but she’s still going strong!
View attachment 4293638
Medium - Micro DWC
Strain - Jack Herer (Seedsman freebie)
Nutrients - Cutting Edge Solutions
Lights - Cheap 100W LED Bulb and 45W side strips
View attachment 4293645
View attachment 4293647

We would have been running the same strain lol my other cup was jack yours looks great