DIY with Quantum Boards

2com

Well-Known Member
I run 18 gauge stranded from the driver to a wago. I use short 3-4" strips of 18ga. solid from the wago to the QB. Solid wire is a pain in the ass and looks like crap hanging in a tent. If you need to be able to raise and lower your lights, stranded with a short jumper to the QB works well.
I planned on going from solid to stranded like this.
Where, and how, are you securing the wago? And how far from the molex. I guess it varies depending on what fixture ya built with what boards, but I assume you try and use as little 18awg as possible.
 

Jqwerty1

Well-Known Member
try again, buddy. im all ears
View attachment 4391429
Im not going to argue on UV, they do emit UV, thats how the work, they have a coating that is SUPPOSED to stop uv. They also have a peak wavelength of green light that appears to be the best wavelength for anthocyanins right there at 550nm. Why the other source says that anthocyanins peak at red wavelengths im not sure. Other sources say the same but dont give any reasons why.
 

Attachments

2com

Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing feedback on the Rspec QB's @Jqwerty1.

I don't have the proper driver for my 2 qb288 v2 rspec diy kit but I still use it... Some of the buds are hard,some fluffy... I think even with the right driver i would rather have regular v2s...
What driver are you using for two Rspec 288's?
 

lukio

Well-Known Member
Im not going to argue on UV, they do emit UV, thats how the work, they have a coating that is SUPPOSED to stop uv. They also have a peak wavelength of green light that appears to be the best wavelength for anthocyanins right there at 550nm. Why the other source says that anthocyanins peak at red wavelengths im not sure. Other sources say the same but dont give any reasons why.
i'll let em know they got it wrong, silly little GE...
 

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
Yeah i try to keep them about 6inches from the very top of the tallest cola. I grow in 60 inch tents, i mount the lights to the top and let the plants grow up to them. I have fans mounted to my boards and decent ventilation, run co2. I also keep the humidity quite low with a combination of AC and using tons of CaCl. I know what im doing ive been doing this for a while on almost every system, hydro soil, hid flour and tons of leds. The 660s are signaling to the plant that fall is coming, sunlight is at its peak and the plant should produce anthocyanin, to either protect it from intense light or to gather more light. Its Rayleigh Scattering. Now as i have read these red leds are like twice as efficient as blue ones and significantly more efficient than the lm301B which is why they put it on there. More lights always better. However the spectrum has changed. Im not sure i would recommend these for a full cycle or even a full flowering cycle. HLG needs to hunt down efficient/cheap UV and blue leds to add on. I predicted this, thats why i created a preflower tent with an old V1. In this tent i put my plants in 14 hr light cycle in ordrr to develop some decent bud sites that i cant get under 24hr light. Id bet the V2s will veg a sativa for 14weeks if they wanted to, doubt the rspec could do that because its going to start signaling hormones too early.
Personally I thought you had light stress going on and would of put it down to sheer intensity over the spectral difference. I wouldn't even run my v1s less than 12" . Though I can if I use more boards at less power. Even then at 6" I get bleached tips but not much light stress with 3k v1s, I know the v2 was a step up in output so I assume the rspec is another step up.
One thing about any of the QBs is the density of the diodes makes them too much for close quarters growing.

How does the co2 affect VPD? I assume you must run fairly warm in there, im not a co2 guy so I don't know how it affects VPD.
I know I run higher RH now and have less issues doing that but your saying your running the opposite end of the scale keeping low RH.

Not trying to argue, I agree with a lot of what your saying about cause of red stems and from what I have been reading its the main cause of red leaf vein symptoms.
Just wondering if your attributing your issues to 660nm diodes when its actually just a broader higher light intensity issue.

I found mostly with other lighting types the more light the better. I haven't found that to work in the same linear relationship with LEDs.
 

Jqwerty1

Well-Known Member
"The evidence presented here that anthocyanins protect senescing red-osier dogwood leaves from excess light is based on laboratory studies in which we were able to impose on red- and yellow-senescing leaves identical treatments of high light intensity. We based our light treatments on the maximum PPFDs that a red-senescing leaf might experience under natural conditions. Yellow-senescing leaves are those that occur in more shaded microsites, and thus they would not normally experience these PPFDs (see “Materials and Methods”). The absence of any difference in maximum PSII photon efficiency of dark-adapted between red- and yellow-senescing leaves is consistent with the idea that yellow-senescing leaves do not experience high PPFDs at sufficient duration (i.e. sun flecks are short lived) to cause photodamage under natural conditions (Table I). If PPFDs are sufficiently high and prolonged, then anthocyanin accumulation is induced. Red-osier dogwood appears to show a facultative anthocyanin production. Manipulations of red-osier dogwood canopies (i.e. removal of shading branches) in early autumn to expose leaves normally senescing yellow resulted in anthocyanin accumulation. Furthermore, leaves flipped in their orientation accumulate anthocyanins in the spongy mesophyll cells, whereas the palisade mesophyll remains anthocyanin-less during senescence. This indicates that anthocyanin accumulation is not developmentally programmed at the leaf or leaf tissue level. Anthocyanin production and expression of key regulatory enzymes are known to be up-regulated by high light intensity or treatments that limit photochemical utilization of excitation energy (Christie et al., 1994; Nooden et al., 1996; Chalker-Scott, 1999), suggesting that anthocyanins play a physiological role in coping with excess light.

A need for protecting chloroplasts from excess light absorption during autumn senescence at first seems counterintuitive. Given that light interception declines during autumn and thylakoid membranes already contain xanthophyll pigments to dissipate excess light energy (Demmig-Adams and Adams, 1992; Horton et al., 1996), why should an additional mechanism for reducing light captured by chloroplasts be deployed? One hypothesis is that the metabolic changes that occur during leaf senescence increase the susceptibility of light-induced oxidative damage to leaf cells (Nooden et al., 1996; Merzlyack and Hendry, 1994).

Leaf senescence is a programmed transformation of leaf metabolism and ultrastructure whose functional significance is best understood from the perspective of nutrient salvage (Smart 1994; Killingbeck, 1996;Buchanan-Wollaston, 1997; Quirino et al., 2000). This is paramount in plastids where as much as 90% of the nitrogen recycled from senescing leaves comes from the degradation of stroma proteins and thylakoid membranes (Evans, 1983; Killingbeck, 1996; Thomas, 1997; Matile et al., 1999). However, before nitrogen can be mobilized, chlorophyll molecules must be unbound from their associated proteins and enzymatically degraded (Hinder et al., 1996; Thomas, 1997; Matile et al., 1999;Matile, 2000). Chlorophyll breakdown apparently does not result in the release of nutrients that are resorbed by the leaf; instead, chlorophyll is catabolized and the degradation products stored in the vacuole using a detoxification pathway shared with xenobiotic compounds (Peisker et al., 1990; Hinder et al., 1996; Thomas, 1997; Matile et al., 1999; Matile, 2000). This special handling reflects the high phototoxicity of unbound chlorophyll and its derivatives, which readily produce highly reactive singlet oxygen in the presence of light and oxygen (Merzlyack and Hendry, 1994; Thomas, 1997; Marder et al., 1998; Matile et al., 1999). If free chlorophyll is not catabolized or protected from light, the uncontrolled generation of singlet oxygen could jeopardize the viability of senescing leaf cells through photo-oxidative damage (such as per-oxidation of membrane lipids;Merzlyack and Hendry, 1994; Asada, 1999). Because autumn senescence involves the rapid liberation of the entire pool of chlorophyll (Sanger, 1971; Matile, 2000), it presents a substantial opportunity for oxidative damage that may reduce the efficiency of nutrient recovery from senescing leaves. By acting as an optical screen that reduces the light capture of senescing chloroplasts, anthocyanins provide an additional degree of photoprotection during the dismantling of the photosynthetic apparatus"

When your plants not healthy, it will produce anthocyanin to protect itself. Also will help your plants die faster and more efficiently. Faster flowering is not neccessarily a good thing. A longer flower and greener plant will yield more total mass yet not as high content in oil. Im saying theres good chance here that total oil content will be the same. However they will be more viney and harder to manage due to stem elongation. From a commercial pov the IMO the v2 would be better, more mass to sell but for quality if you want to mess around with screens and stuff the rspec may be better. I already own several of both so im taking a tiered approach with doing most of my flowering under the V2 and then finishing them under the rspec. Before your fan leaves start to yellow around week 5 of flower, i would switch them under an rspec to optimize the breakdown and speed up the process. Incorporating UV i to the rspec would be the best option to really increase these effects.
 

Jqwerty1

Well-Known Member
Personally I thought you had light stress going on and would of put it down to sheer intensity over the spectral difference. I wouldn't even run my v1s less than 12" . Though I can if I use more boards at less power. Even then at 6" I get bleached tips but not much light stress with 3k v1s, I know the v2 was a step up in output so I assume the rspec is another step up.
One thing about any of the QBs is the density of the diodes makes them too much for close quarters growing.

How does the co2 affect VPD? I assume you must run fairly warm in there, im not a co2 guy so I don't know how it affects VPD.
I know I run higher RH now and have less issues doing that but your saying your running the opposite end of the scale keeping low RH.

Not trying to argue, I agree with a lot of what your saying about cause of red stems and from what I have been reading its the main cause of red leaf vein symptoms.
Just wondering if your attributing your issues to 660nm diodes when its actually just a broader higher light intensity issue.

I found mostly with other lighting types the more light the better. I haven't found that to work in the same linear relationship with LEDs.
Im saying its a combination of both higher light AND the spectrum. Its not enough of either to make a huge difference but combined it is.

Managing vpd is crucial to optimizing your grow and its very underestimated as a key factor in success. If you running high humidity and temperature thats fine but theres A LOT of water that can be absorbed into hot air and its not a steady rate, the hotter it gets the more it can absorb. From 20c to 40c, you can get 3x more water in the air. as air cools during lights off it will condense and your plants are going to get all droopy and theres a high chance for mold. If youre at 85f and 70% humidity
You go lights out and your going to be at 75f and 100% humidity. I manage this inside my tents by keep the whole room very dry and running my lights on period at night time. If you're house is colder at night and your lights on in the day, you will see a big rise in RH. Condensation on your grow tent walls, slow growth and mold/bud rot. Low humidity may not always put you in an optimal place for growth but its easier to manage overall. KISS. In my case I don't have the best ventilation outside and its also very humid here. Trying to keep up humidity is going to cause more problems than a slight increase in growth rate.

How co2 relates to that is you can deal with increased temperatures with co2. Its absorbed better at higher temperatures, meaning better growth. As the temperature increases youre going to have more humidity to deal with. I cant imagine anyone ever trying to bring the humidity up. For me its a constant fight to keep it down. I have 4 2x2 tents, with ducts connecting them all, 1 inlet and 1 outlet. The air outlet is very high humidity and temperature, have dry it out before it gets recirculated. I dry everything with CaCl, damp rid. The excess i dump into buckets and pass thenoutlet air over it. Occasionally when the weather permits i air it out through the window and my AC is in another room so i have to use a box fan to push cold dry air in sometimes. Its a mess but i dont have any mold, and lots fewer insects. Low humidity is the equivalent of maxibloom. Humidity where i live is like 85% most of year so if youre in the desert or cold dry north idk. When i grew in Colorado winters i could see it being an issue but i never encountered it.
 

Jqwerty1

Well-Known Member
I have red stems all the time and usually only run with around 600 umoles at the canopy and my yields are fine.
I didnt say there was anything wrong with purple stems, some else had mentioned that earlier but im not buying that. Im not aware that stems breath or do photosynthesis. Im just saying that they get purple from high light, certain wavelengths of light. Its not neccesarily related to deficiencys or temperatures. It can be. The crazy thing is the most obv part is when you clip buds off purple stems theyre green underneath the buds. If thats not the obvious sign that it related to light, you can go read the papers i just posted.
 

Jqwerty1

Well-Known Member
Green under the buds.
IMG_20190909_062635.jpg
Heres one showing "pigment dyed yellow orange leaves" on the top and green under the canopy on my rspecs due to the 660. If it was from just the end of lifecycle or N it would start from the bottom up, not top down.

IMG_20190909_020934.jpg
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
If what you claim is true then it has a very minimal or a cosmetic effect. I've run more than a couple different spectrum's and healthy plants don't really look any different under them. From my experience too much light tends to bleach out the whole plant, leaves,stems and all yellow out from top to bottom. Too much deep or far red will definitely stretch things out and effect bud density.
 

Jqwerty1

Well-Known Member
The plants i get out of my veg tent all have deep purple stems, even though its not strong light, the effect accumulates over time. These are mother plants that are constantly cut back and exposing the stems to light. The cutting also causes stress that pushes the plant to produce anthocyanins to protect itself. When i cut a plant back, i also see yellowing dying leaves, this means the plant is cannibalizing itself. In the papers it says that when a plant cannibalizes itself, using its leaves for energy, then it must protect itself during this process by producing anthocyanins. I dont think it harms the stems much but this same activity on healthy plant buds and leaves under the rspec is concerning to me.
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
What kind of wattage per sq/ft are you running? I prefer to scrog with lower wattage and under those circumstances spectrum shifts might not have as big of a impact on plant health.
 

Jqwerty1

Well-Known Member
If what you claim is true then it has a very minimal or a cosmetic effect. I've run more than a couple different spectrum's and healthy plants don't really look any different under them. From my experience too much light tends to bleach out the whole plant, leaves,stems and all yellow out from top to bottom. Too much deep or far red will definitely stretch things out and effect bud density.
Yeah well thats what figured, i got the rspec expecting it would bring me some bag appeal with a lot more purples. The ones claiming that its a creates a shorter harvest time though, im not sure thats a plus. If we could take a plant that's going to grow for 7 weeks and harvest 100g, what if we could put it under a different light that will allow it to grow for 9 weeks and harvest 150g. Experiments have shown that larger plants will yield better than multiple smaller plants. Now lets say we grow for a year for the 7wk100g thats 742, the 9wk150g, 866. If the 660 is signaling to the plant to flower more, im not sure thats going to lead to bigger harvests. Now lets say that 100g plant was 25% thc, we got a total of 185g of thc. The 866 plant 20% thc 173g thc. Those are all realistic numbers. As a commercial grower who sells for 60$ a gram, thats a 7000$ difference per year for me.
 
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